Odd experience at a training

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Deja vu

New member
Just finished a local self defense single day pistol training. It was a small class of 7 people. My self and my brother both attended the class. There was a main trainer and he had an assistant.

Before attending the class I looked up what guns are appropriate for the class. The rules basically said no rimfire and no Single action revolvers. So I brought my S&W 627 (8 shot revolver) and a few speed loaders and some rounds pre-loaded into moon clips.

When we get to the training I am not surprised to mostly see double stack striker fire pistols and only my self with a revolver. Long story short, after a couple hours I was no longer allowed to use the speed loaders or my moon clips and had to load the rounds by hand (for the last 90 min) while every body else still got to use magazines.

After words I stayed late to ask what the reasoning behind it was and the trainer would not give me an answer and just walked away. His assistant did talk to me and told me that I did pretty well and was better with my speed loaders (before the teacher banned them) than many students where with the magazines. I was a little upset but feel that I kept it to my self pretty well.

Any way it’s still bothering me a little. What could the reason for the trainer doing this be? Is it possible that he was trying to help me and I just took it the wrong way? I want to believe that!

Sorry for the rant!
 
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Skippy

New member
If you paid money for the class you deserve a straight answer. I can't imagine a good reason to say you can't use a speed loader or moon clips. If he has a good answer you should hear it or get a refund.

_______________
*I'd give right arm to be ambidextrous*
 
D

Deja vu

New member
Yes it did cost (though my brother paid for it). I’ll see if I can find contact information and compose an email. I don’t really like to rock the boat but this seems pretty out of line to me.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
I think the boat needs to be rocked. You did nothing wrong, and the information put out before the class did NOT prohibit DA revolvers with speed loaders. IMHO the instructor was wrong to not allow you to use the speed loaders, and he was wrong again for refusing to give you an explanation.
 
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armoredman

New member
That's idiotic. You carry speedloaders/moon clips while you are carrying your revolver, correct? Then it would be perfectly acceptable to use them in a defensive use class. If you were using something clearly never intended for use on the street, like a competition holster, or something like that, I can see them saying, whoa, no, not going to do that. But when I carried a round gun, I always had at least one speedloader with me.
I'd ask for a refund - I wonder what else the "trainer" got wrong out of some personal bias?
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Unless you were holding up the class loading/unloading clips, I see no good reason for such a prohibition.

If they don't want people using revolvers, that should be stated clearly in the information provided for folks wanting to sign up. Since it was not, I would say that unless you were holding up class in some way, what happened was totally unacceptable.

I think it would be good to provide the class information for folks who might want to take a class and would use a revolver. That's clearly not the class for them.
 
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jar

New member
The last two times I have had to shoot a qualifying for a License to Carry I used my Detective Special with a pair of speed strips and a couple HKS DS speed loaders. Even then the last couple segments I had to hand load.

But I will admit I am always shocked when I learn someone can't drive a manual shift car.

Now that is truly deplorable.
 
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chaim

New member
The only thing I can think of is that if the instructor isn't a revolver guy, and the class is a "combat" or "tactical" training class, maybe he sees speed loaders and moonclips as competition and range accessories. If he doesn't realize that a lot of people who carry a revolver or use one for home defense also carry speed loaders and/or moonclips, he might not see them as appropriate for a defense oriented class. How old was the trainer? If he was a younger guy*, he may not be that well versed on revolvers and might have seen anything but loading the rounds individually as cheating in the context of the class.

*In this context, "younger" is pretty broad. I remember (not that long ago, well, OK fine...) when I was a rare "younger guy" who was very into revolvers as they were mostly for the "older" guys. Um, I'm now 52 years old. So, other than those who like a J-frame (and probably for niche roles more than everyday carry) and the rare exception, I suspect that most "revolver guys," even the younger ones, are probably getting into their upper 50s and 60s at this point.
 
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shafter

New member
I don't teach non law enforcement but if I did I wouldn't allow revolvers in my class. My reason is simple, while I can run a revolver pretty good they aren't where my expertise lies and they wouldn't fit into the curriculum.

I do believe any good instructor would give you his reason for not allowing them, or for prohibiting certain accessories like speed loaders though. If it wasn't stated up front the student should be allowed to proceed with what he brought unless there is a safety concern and it would be crazy for an instructor to keep the student in the dark about a safety issue.
 
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Sharkbite

New member
Ive been a professional firearms/tactics trainer since the mid 90’s. I started with a Smith revolver (M64). In my current classes i LOVE to see a revolver shooter. I teach how to properly re-load using speed loaders AND speed strips.

If thats the choice of firearms a student makes…i’ll do my best to show him how to run it well
 
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Jim Watson

New member
These fako classes and instructors abound.

Jeff Cooper ran into the same thing in reverse.
He went to a major agency academy with his 1911 and was told that he must only use one magazine and loose ammo. Obviously did not want him to show up the issue revolvers and their users.
 
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jar

New member
I'm curious about what part of the curriculum is not appropriate for a revolver?

If there is some part of the curriculum that precludes a revolver isn't it time to fix the curriculum and also the instructor training?
 
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Limnophile

New member
"[A]fter a couple hours I was no longer allowed to use the speed loaders or my moon clips and had to load the rounds by hand (for the last 90 min) while every body else still got to use magazines."

Why did you comply with such an absurd and unreasonable request? The time to demand an explanation was when the request was made. No explanation or poor explanation: ignore the request.
 
D

Deja vu

New member
Limnophile said:
"[A]fter a couple hours I was no longer allowed to use the speed loaders or my moon clips and had to load the rounds by hand (for the last 90 min) while every body else still got to use magazines."

Why did you comply with such an absurd and unreasonable request? The time to demand an explanation was when the request was made. No explanation or poor explanation: ignore the request.
Click to expand...
He seemed more trained in the tactical sense than me so I thought there was a reason. (I have done a little competitive shooting in the past but I’m not what I would consider good at it) Infact I was mostly okay with it in the moment. It wasn’t until after words when I stayed late to ask why that I got an more of an odd feeling about it (because he did not answer and walked away).

At the time I thought of it as a “what would I do if I had a speed loader failure drill.
 
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ballardw

New member
Deja vu said:
At the time I thought of it as a “what would I do if I had a speed loader failure drill.
Click to expand...

Were there any drills about lost magazines? Magazines that wouldn't seat/feed?
That would be somewhat similar to speed loader failure.

I'd be interested in seeing the drill where you have to repeatedly load a semi one-round at a time like revolver with loose ammo. Especially with the pistols that have magazine disconnects if the mag won't seat properly.
 
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Deja vu

New member
ballardw said:
Were there any drills about lost magazines? Magazines that wouldn't seat/feed?
That would be somewhat similar to speed loader failure.

I'd be interested in seeing the drill where you have to repeatedly load a semi one-round at a time like revolver with loose ammo. Especially with the pistols that have magazine disconnects if the mag won't seat properly.
Click to expand...
They had a drill where the magazines malfunctioned but the answer was to change magazines not load it one by one (actually 2 by 2 in my case).
 
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TunnelRat

New member
If he couldn’t or wouldn’t answer you in person I would personally be surprised if he did respond to the email. I get that to an extent you’re trying to be fair and see if it’s something you missed, but in all the instructors I have had (in just shy of 40 or so defensive firearm courses) I can’t think of one course where an honest, “Why?”, was flat out ignored, assuming there wasn’t something immediately pressing going on (a drill the instructor needed to finish or students that needed supervision). I try and look at everything, especially bad experiences, as, “What can I learn from this?” It may be your takeaway from all of this is that this instructor is not a good choice for you given your desire to use revolvers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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