Obama's incredible accomplishments...

[JuanCarlos]

If I use BO's middle name, I'm a racist.

Do you have some refutation to my logic there? Did I miss somthing? Because yeah, pretty sure you're a racist. And not a "little" racist, in the "olol everybody's a little racist," but more the big ugly racist type. But don't worry, you're not alone.

Again, you might consider this a "personal" attack but when you say racist things you shouldn't be surprised when somebody calls you out on them. Attacking somebody for the things they say is not an ad hominem attack...attacking the things they say because of the person saying them is.

If you don't like it, stop saying racist crap. Or go back to Stormfront.

 

[Socrates]

Barack Hussein Obama II[1] was born on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Obama, Sr., a Black Kenyan of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann Dunham, a White American from Wichita, Kansas. His parents met while attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was a foreign student.[2] They separated when he was two years old and later divorced.[3] Obama's father returned to Kenya and saw him only once more before dying in an automobile accident in 1982.[4] After her divorce, Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, and the family moved to Soetoro's home country of Indonesia in 1967, where Obama attended local schools in Jakarta until he was ten years old.

After reading this, I had questions about what type of school he attended in Jakarta.

This pretty much answers the question:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_barack_obama_muslim.htm

Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was raised as a Muslim.

Obama Jr. claims his father was no longer practicing when he married his mother. With both parents dead, and very little contact with his father, this is a bit of a stretch.

Considering how young he was, 2 years old, when the divorce and separation occured, I don't think it's an issue, but, his father WAS raised Muslim.

In the Audacity of Hope, Obama explained that he attended both Catholic and Muslim schools in Indonesia.

from 69 to 71 he was in a Public school in Jakarta.


and I can roll with that. Now, calling BO by his middle name is no more racist then calling him BO, or Bill Clinton
Slick Willy.

Here are the demographics from Kenya:

Kenya is a country of great ethnic diversity. Most Kenyans are bilingual in English and Swahili, also a big percentage speak their mother tongue of their ethnic tribe.

Ethnic groups
Kikuyu 22%, Luhya 14%, Luo 13%, Kalenjin 12%, Kamba 11%, Kisii 6%, Meru 6%, other African 15%, non-African (Asian, European, and Arab) 1%[23]

Religious affiliation
Protestant and Quaker 45%, Roman Catholic 25%, Islam 10%, Traditional Religions 10%, Orthodox 1%. Others include Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism and the Bahá'

 

[Socrates]

BO was in the middle of a real radical time. He was in Jakarta during the Sukarno Suharto battle. Suharto is Islamic, or was, by the way. He was not a nice person, suppressing protestors, mainly students, with the military. Your pretty much dictator-general-Islam leader. Sukarno was an older version, but, also with the same religious affiliation.
I can't help but think being in this situation would make one rather abhorent of the Islamic faith, and, from all indications, perhaps that has something to do with first Obama wanting to leave Jakarata to go back to Hawaii.

Like race, it's very clear that religion HAS been an issue for
BO, simply because of who his parents were, and where he happened to live, and what happened there.

As for Indonesia:

Religion plays a major role in life in Indonesia. It is stated in the first principle of the state ideology, Pancasila: "belief in the one and only God". A number of different religions are practiced in Indonesia and their collective influence on the country's political, economical and cultural life is significant.[1] As of 2007, the population was estimated as 234,693,997.[2] Based on the 2000 census, approximately 86.1% were Muslims, 5.7% Protestant, 3% are Catholic, 1.8% Hindu, 3.4% other or unspecified .[2]

 

[Leif]

Like race, it's very clear that religion HAS been an issue for
BO

Yes, his Christian beliefs, as he has stated many, many times over.

Pssst ... hey Socrates, guess what ... I'm going to do it again ...







OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Do you have any facts to support your allegations? It's a simple question. The ethnography of Indonesia may be interesting, BUT DO YOU HAVE ANY DIRECT EVIDENCE FOR WHAT YOU CLAIM??????????????????

I own a Koran, does this make me Muslim? I spent a bit of time in Jordan, does this make me Muslim? I studied Arabic, does this make me Muslim?

Here's a hint: I'm as Muslim as Obama is.

PS - Sukarno was far more of a secular, socialist, anti-colonial dictator than any sort of religious zealot. Bad man in many ways, yes - precursor to al-Qaeda, not quite.

 

[Citizen Carrier]

The Kuwaiti naval officers I've talked to referred to Obama as a muslim. I guess as far as they're concerned, if dad was a muslim, you are one too. Period.

I don't believe it.

I think it is clear that Obama has been whatever he needed to be.

In left-wing radical Chicago political circles, he went to Rev. Wright's church because that was the Church for an aspiring liberal politician to be seen at. In Chicago, being seen and operating with guys like Ayers and Rezko was in the script.

So that's what he did.

And who would've imagined that a thread about Obama's accomplishments would run this many pages?

I mean, jeez, you could summarize his accomplishments on a soda bottle cap using a jumbo-sized Sharpie.

Has he been a Senator for even 150 days yet? Has he crossed even that notable threshold? Even then, should we really count all the days he's been out on the trail NOT BEING A SENATOR?

He won his first election by using every trick in the book to have his opponents thrown out of the race on technicalities. He even contested a petition, having one woman's name taken off because she used her maiden name rather than her married name.

He won his Senate seat when his opponent dropped out and was replaced by a carpetbagger last minute stand-in who didn't stand a chance.

Instead of standing up to a simple commercial pointing out his actual relationship with a known, self-admitted America-hating terrorist, Obama has used his power to threaten TV stations with lawsuits.

Folks, we don't need this guy...

 

[JuanCarlos]

Now, calling BO by his middle name is no more racist then calling him BO, or Bill Clinton Slick Willy.

So, do you have a refutation for the straightforward logical argument presented earlier? It's only six steps, not hard to follow. Or are you just going with the "nuh uh!" response? Because that's hardly compelling.

And who would've imagined that a thread about Obama's accomplishments would run this many pages?

Well, in fairness I think only about a dozen sentences in the thread relate to his accomplishments. Based on the framing of the OP, and the first few responses, it pretty swiftly turned into a discussion of the positive and/or negative roles that race may or may not have played in his career.

 

[Don Lu]

This thread is really disguating...really.:barf:
really...

 

[WhyteP38]

So, do you have a refutation for the straightforward logical argument presented earlier? It's only six steps, not hard to follow.

I would take a minor quibble with Step 1:

1. People in this culture don't go by middle name, nor does Obama choose to

Isn't the current president referred to as "W"? In fact, aren't there stickers out there that say, "W, the President"? And aren't there stickers out there that mock those other stickers with, "F, the President"?

I believe FDR started the trend of using initials as a representation. It led to JFK and LBJ. Perhaps W has started a new trend.

Regardless, much as I dislike and distrust Obama, it's hard for me to gin up any energy about his middle name. I don't submit to the politically correct idea that it is off-limits - which would be a form of thought police action - but I fail to see what use it is. Obama didn't choose his first, middle, or last name. It tells me nothing about him. Besides, what was he supposed to do, get his name changed to Michael John Smith?

His middle name has nothing to do with any of his accomplishments, or lack thereof. This whole controversy is a distraction from the man's true strengths and weaknesses.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Isn't the current president referred to as "W"? In fact, aren't there stickers out there that say, "W, the President"? And aren't there stickers out there that mock those other stickers with, "F, the President"?

In Bush's case, the use of a middle initial makes a bit more sense, as it differentiates him from his father who has the same name and was also president. W. and H.W.

Though I probably should have qualified step #1 with a "generally"...obviously there are exceptions. But it's fairly uncommon, even among politicians.

Regardless, much as I dislike and distrust Obama, it's hard for me to gin up any energy about his middle name. I don't submit to the politically correct idea that it is off-limits - which would be a form of thought police action - but I fail to see what use it is. Obama didn't choose his first, middle, or last name. It tells me nothing about him. Besides, what was he supposed to do, get his name changed to Michael John Smith?

His middle name has nothing to do with any of his accomplishments, or lack thereof. This whole controversy is a distraction from the man's true strengths and weaknesses.

I'd agree that there are definitely plenty of other weaknesses to discuss, and which are much more important. But I disagree that calling somebody out for referring to him consistently simply as "Hussein" as racist is somehow "political correctness."* And the fact that he didn't choose it, nor does it say anything about him, is exactly why using it in that way is racist. Because it's an attempt to automatically associate him with all Arab and/or Muslim people, in combination with the insinuation that that's a negative.


* - This depends what definition of "political correctness" you're using, of course. I've noticed that one popular definition nowadays is "thinking I'm a bad person because I said racist crap." By that definition, I suppose it would count. See, when I go for some training in California and they say we're not supposed to refer to wire trimmer plier things (I don't even know what else to call them, and I forget what stupid term they used) as "dikes," that is political correctness. This? Totally different.

 

[Socrates]

This whole controversy is a distraction from the man's true strengths and weaknesses.

It did bring up that it's not unreasonable for people to associate him with being Muslim, since he carries a Muslim name, his father was as well.

I'm sure the name change idea crossed his mind. Remember, in our generation it was a very hip thing for blacks to change their slave names to something Muslim that white people couldn't pronounce. Obama figured he was hip already, sort of a Malcom X kind of thing, without having to change, or Muhammad Ali/ Cassius Clay.

I changed my last name to my mother's maiden name, when when my Dad pulled a Barack Obama Sr....

 

[WhyteP38]

I wasn't aware that Arab or Muslim was a race. I always thought "Arab" was someone who was a Semite and lived in a geographic region known as "Arabia." I always thought that "Muslim" was a religion (or practioner thereof).

If neither Arab nor Muslim is a race, how can referring to an Arabic name be racist?

 

[Socrates]

Has he been a Senator for even 150 days yet? Has he crossed even that notable threshold? Even then, should we really count all the days he's been out on the trail NOT BEING A SENATOR?

He won his first election by using every trick in the book to have his opponents thrown out of the race on technicalities. He even contested a petition, having one woman's name taken off because she used her maiden name rather than her married name.

He won his Senate seat when his opponent dropped out and was replaced by a carpetbagger last minute stand-in who didn't stand a chance.

Instead of standing up to a simple commercial pointing out his actual relationship with a known, self-admitted America-hating terrorist, Obama has used his power to threaten TV stations with lawsuits.

So, the guy is a ruthless politician. So he uses his law degree to threaten libel suits, when in fact, the only way that's going to fly is if what is being published is false, and, he is a public figure, so it would have to be REALLY WAY off base, and a total fabrication for his threat to make the stations pull the commercial. MUCH more likely is the add was a fabrication, with blatant disregard for the truth. Obama seems to be a lightning rod for this sort of stuff. Also, I think he likes it, and, uses it to his advantage.

I certainly would like to know how he picked the Jack Ryan senate seat as his first try, and, how the media got
private divorce records revealed.

I still don't get why Ryan pulled out. So what if he wanted to have sex all the time with his gorgeous wife?

At least he wasn't doing cocaine, marijuana, and whatever else was floating around, like Obama did in the past. 10 years, 20, 30, who cares?

 

[JuanCarlos]

*shrug*

It's true that Arab is more of an ethnicity...with Muslim being a religion. Would you prefer "bigot" to "racist?" It's really no better.

Put it this way: if I started telling "raghead" jokes here, would it be cool, since Arab isn't a race so it's not racism?

EDIT: And you'll notice that I've been using the term "bigot" or "bigotry" precisely because I knew that if I just said "racism" at least one person would swing in with the "but Islam's not a race" or "Arab's not a race" card. Fine. Shall I start making Jew jokes now?

How many Jews can you fit in a Volkswagon?

 

[WhyteP38]

It's true that Arab is more of an ethnicity...with Muslim being a race.

Again, "Muslim" is not a race. Muslim is a term for an adherent of Islam. That's why you have Muslims and Black Muslims. There is a difference.

Would you prefer "bigot" to "racist?" It's really no better.

Actually, there is a difference. A Brit who dislikes the Irish is a bigot. A white who feels blacks are inferior is a racist. The bigotted Brit will get a far different reaction than the racist white will.

If you're going to state or imply that someone is a racist, you should be sure of your terms.

Put it this way: if I started telling "raghead" jokes here, would it be cool, since Arab isn't a race so it's not racism?

No more so than "Paddy" being a racist term against the Irish "race." But as we all know, there is no Irish race.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Doh! I meant to say that Muslim was a religion...edited.

EDIT: Perhaps I should just admit that a forum where constantly referring to him as "Hussein" is accepted and where people will actually defend it just isn't for me. But I'll say this is not the kind of thing that makes me proud to self-identify as a gun enthusiast.

 

[Citizen Carrier]

I have no love for Obama, but I think the Hussein bit is juvenile.

It's like those morons who run around chanting Bush and Hitler's names as if they were just one name.

We don't refer to Lee Harvey Oswald as "Harvey" or John F. Kennedy as "Fitzpatrick".

Let us rise above the assinine!

Obama just by his first or last names is a target rich environment for criticism; none of it having to do with his skin color or what religion his father probably didn't practice much anyway.

 

[Leif]

Bigot or racist ... neither is acceptable, period.

Those who want to start splitting hairs about ethnicity versus race versus religion need to remember one thing: bigotry and racism come from the same wellspring of hatred - they are all manifestations of hatred. Besides, any first year student of anthropology can tell you that things like race and ethnicity are pretty fluid concepts, with a good deal of overlap between the two. Throwing religion and national identity into the mix makes things even more amorphous.

I do get a sad sort of chuckle about those who estimate Obama is such percentage black, and such percentage white, and such percentage Arab. Really, what exactly do you hope to prove with that? Does it matter what McCain's ethnic or racial composition is? Should we even bother to find out? Obama and Vice President Cheney are distantly related ... hmmmm, I wonder if Cheney is Muslim with ties to radical Islam. I think it, therefore it must be so. My grandparents immigrated to this country from Germany during the 1950s - am I a Nazi like they were?

Oh that's right, you feel that Obama is consciously playing race to his advantage. I keep waiting to hear that wonderful evidence that you have, Socrates.

 

[Al Norris]

Rhetorical Question: When is enough, enough?

Answer: Right Now.

Closed.