JuanCarlos
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To my knowledge neither his father nor his stepfather were Arab. You know, if you wanted to try to actually make a true statement.
Obama's incredible accomplishments...
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To my knowledge neither his father nor his stepfather were Arab. You know, if you wanted to try to actually make a true statement.
If Obama's family were subjected to half the scrutiny that Sarah Palin's family has been subjected to in the last few days we would all know a lot more about them. But no one must question any aspect of the Obamessiah nor spake his middle name nor question his experience nor.....
One reason Obama took the stance of "leave Palin's family alone" is that he doesn't want too much digging into his own.
Yes, there is a lot of wild speculation, but there is definitely something amiss. There are too many things about him, and about how he got to be where he's at, that just don't add up. Too many things are apart from the norm, even for politics, and don't jive.
And not that it really matters, but he is of arab, african, and white decent. Why does he not claim to be arab? Why does he not claim to be white? Why the emphasis only on the black portion of his ancestry? Because thats the only portion of his heritage that actually provides him with extras and perks. The only part that can be effectively used to get any extra, free, or undeserved boost that he can get.
Yes, there is a lot of wild speculation, but there is definitely something amiss. There are too many things about him, and about how he got to be where he's at, that just don't add up. Too many things are apart from the norm, even for politics, and don't jive.
And not that it really matters, but he is of arab, african, and white decent. Why does he not claim to be arab? Why does he not claim to be white? Why the emphasis only on the black portion of his ancestry? Because thats the only portion of his heritage that actually provides him with extras and perks. The only part that can be effectively used to get any extra, free, or undeserved boost that he can get.
Last time I checked, Obama was American ... and still not Muslim.
The racism in this thread knows no bounds apparently. Sad, truly sad.
I suppose the "Mc" in McCain will prevent him from bombing Ireland or the UK if he becomes president. They can sleep safe knowing that they're "his" people.
The racism in this thread knows no bounds apparently. Sad, truly sad.
I suppose the "Mc" in McCain will prevent him from bombing Ireland or the UK if he becomes president. They can sleep safe knowing that they're "his" people.
Anybody have any facts, or links to back this up? And 50% Kansas white.
Opposing a war in Iraq shows he can read, and understands history. We really aren't very good at getting into wars we have a chance of winning, and, this one is no different. I was against the war, as well, because of the tribe wars going on in that area, that have been in place for a couple thousand years.
We have this really stupid idea we can go in as peacemakers, and, all we end up is walking around like targets, just like the lobsters did in our revolutionary war.
We aren't going to 'save' anybody there. Didn't work in Korea, didn't work in Vietnam, and, it's not going to work in Iraq or Iran. Go in, get rid of the dictator we created, supported, and supplied, and get out. These people are willing to do suicide bombings. You really can't win against such an adversary, except with total genocide, or a few nuclear weapons.
The scary part is he was only one of two congress people aware enough NOT to vote for a war. We had just screwed up Bosnia, Clinton supporting the Muslims, you know, the ones that had originally committed genocide against the Christians living there, then, got the same in return, and, that's when the UN jumped in, catching the third punch of a fight...
BO had a MUCH clearer picture of what was happening in Iraq. It seems really clear that he picks issues, and positions with one interest, to put himself in the position he has, nominee for president.
He also took that position, anti-war, at a time when it was REALLY unpopular. Again, that was designed to get his picture on the front page. BO has realized the importance of publicity, and, how to get it.
Kind of reminds me of Pam Andersen in the way he manipulates the press to keep his name on the front page, or, on the top of the evening news. Considering his limited experience, or no experience, he's got the politics game down as we play it these days...
I don't recall saying anything positive or negative about Palin, her family, or her background.
Maybe because most of those inquiries are racist?
It is known fact that Obama is not a Muslim, claims no special allegiance to Arab peoples or cultures, and that his opposition to the war had nothing to do with him being Muslim or Arab, yet you and people like you continue to play the race and religion cards. That is racist and xenophobic, whether you care to admit it or not. Whining about Palin's treatment doesn't change that fact.
Even if Obama were an albino German Muslim Arab hamster owner who liked to walk backwards on his hands through doors on Tuesdays during a full moon, that is fine - it does not disqualify him from running from office. He is an American, and has done nothing that should call his patriotism or allegiance to this country into question.
Yet, you and people like you point to shadowy spectres of pseudo-Islamist connections and perpetuate lies about the man's character. Have you no shame, sir?
You are the one playing the race card here.
If Republicans dislike the treatment that Palin is receiving, they should understand that they reap what they sow.
Frankly, this whole thread smacks of latent fears about young black men rising above what others feel is their proper station in American society. It's about as brutish as saying "Son, know your place ..."
Maybe because most of those inquiries are racist?
It is known fact that Obama is not a Muslim, claims no special allegiance to Arab peoples or cultures, and that his opposition to the war had nothing to do with him being Muslim or Arab, yet you and people like you continue to play the race and religion cards. That is racist and xenophobic, whether you care to admit it or not. Whining about Palin's treatment doesn't change that fact.
Even if Obama were an albino German Muslim Arab hamster owner who liked to walk backwards on his hands through doors on Tuesdays during a full moon, that is fine - it does not disqualify him from running from office. He is an American, and has done nothing that should call his patriotism or allegiance to this country into question.
Yet, you and people like you point to shadowy spectres of pseudo-Islamist connections and perpetuate lies about the man's character. Have you no shame, sir?
You are the one playing the race card here.
If Republicans dislike the treatment that Palin is receiving, they should understand that they reap what they sow.
Frankly, this whole thread smacks of latent fears about young black men rising above what others feel is their proper station in American society. It's about as brutish as saying "Son, know your place ..."
This would call his sanity into question, you think this is something we couldn't discuss? Have you objected to looking into Palin's daughter's uterus? If I missed it, I'm sorry.
Either BO's Muslim background was not discussed, or those that did were quickly shouted down (BTW, he's not a Muslim but most of his paternal relations are, nothing pseudo about these connections, though I'm more concerned with the influence of his wacky caucasian commie mother). However, the viciousness and ferocity of the attacks on Palin, including the ridiculous and reprehensible claim that she faked her last pregnancy, means no holds barred, right? What should the Obamessiah be given a free pass that no one else gets? I expect the Obama supporters to call Palin's husband a dirty, shiftless "redskin" (he's part Eskimo Indian) any time now. It's the Democrats that have been relentlessly racist and sexist. Their glass house is much taller and broader than Palin's, perhaps they should watch where they are taking things.
Frankly, Obama's supporters smack of latent fears about young women rising above what others feel is their proper station in American society. It's about as brutish as saying "(insert derogatory term for women used by hiphoppers), know your place ..."
Not speaking for Saab, but please try to keep it civil. Palin and Obama are not forum members, but Saab is and this is a personal attack
Civility earns civility. I see none exhibited here. Saab is continuing down a path that many have been mod-smacked for before here. I'm no mod, but I see no reason not to identify and criticize racism when it presents itself. It is shameful and degrading to the entire membership. It's like some new form of McCarthyism: "Have you sir, now or in the past, ever been a Muslim, or had relationships with those known to be Muslims?" Disgusting and intolerant.
You've got to be kidding. That's patently ridiculous. If you find a real world example of this, I will be interested to hear it.
BTW, I do think that the issue of Palin's daughter should be left alone. Know who else said that? Obama. Some of his supporters have overstepped these bounds, and he distanced himself from them. McCain did the same thing when some of his supporters continued to insist on linking Obama to Islam. Do you really want to hold McCain responsible for every single utterance of every single one of his supporters?
I reiterate: you reap what you sow.
You've got to be kidding. That's patently ridiculous. If you find a real world example of this, I will be interested to hear it.
BTW, I do think that the issue of Palin's daughter should be left alone. Know who else said that? Obama. Some of his supporters have overstepped these bounds, and he distanced himself from them. McCain did the same thing when some of his supporters continued to insist on linking Obama to Islam. Do you really want to hold McCain responsible for every single utterance of every single one of his supporters?
I reiterate: you reap what you sow.
JuanCarlos
New member
Except that nobody anywhere near the mainstream or who anybody intelligent takes seriously was claiming that she faked that pregnancy. It was the wingnuts...both sides have them, and they're crazy on both sides. They're the ones claiming that she faked her pregnancy, or that Obama is a secret muslim, or that Kerry was a secret Jew, or that Bush dropped the twin towers (yes, I heard both of the last two back in '04). Is this a group that you honestly want to be a part of?
The second you have to back up the crazy and/or horrible crap you're spewing by pointing out the crazy and/or horrible crap that the opposing side's wingnuts are spewing, you might want to consider whether you're a part of the problem.
It's not a "personal attack" to call somebody out for what they've actually said. If I suggested that Saab was a drunk or an idiot, that's a personal attack. Suggesting that Saab is a racist or bigot because he says racist or bigoted things is not. Believe it or not, when you spew enough racist garbage eventually people will call you on it. Just like Saab has been doing for a while now.
EDIT: Here, let me spell it out logically...and this is just an overt example...read a few of his posts and it gets even more obvious.
So, you want to refer to Obama as "Hussein." It's his middle name, sure. But:
1. People in this culture don't go by middle name, nor does Obama choose to
2. Thus there is no reason to use his middle name, except to call attention to it
3. There's no reason to call attention to it unless it's in a negative context (or possibly a positive context, but it's obvious Saab1911 is not exactly an Obama supporter)
4. However, Hussein is a common name in the Muslim and/or Arabic world
5. Thus the implication that "All Arabs/Muslims = Bad"
6. Saab1911 is a racist
Done. Now, are we going to argue that it's a good thing to portray gun owners as generally being racist (which, seeing the kinds of posts that come from him and others, is not a huge leap)? Because I'd suggest that this makes it that much easier to attack us as a group, and that much harder for fencesitters to empathize with us, and thus that much harder for us to defend our rights. Which is why maybe the "nudge nudge, wink wink" crap needs to stop.
EDIT: Also note that this is true for pretty much everybody who has insisted on even using his middle name (especially the precious "B. Hussein Obama" and "bHo"). Even more so for Saab, who has consistently been calling him simply "Hussein" for a while now.
HMMMM. BO grew up in Hawaii. Hawaii is about blatant racism. Being black in Hawaii, and going to Punahou, I'm sure he was hated by about 80% of the people on the island.
The only thing being worse in Hawaii then white, is black.
I suspect that was his training ground for learning to play the system, and, use every advantage possible to gain position. Good on him. On the otherhand, he could have claimed to be from Indonesia, and had very little, if any prejudice focused at him.
The sad part about this is the person is mainly white. Yet, with a little bit of black blood, he is now the savior, and the first black person in a presidential race. Again, good for him, playing it to the hilt.
His entire life has been about race. His mother married outside her race twice, in a time when it was NOT fashionable to do so. Perhaps the good news is if elected, his accomplishments will be viewed for what they are, as a human being, not as a psuedo-black person.
I REALLY wish it was Clarence Thomas running for president. I know a bunch of you may hate this concept, but, I'm not sure BO isn't on to something. We have reached a point that we are loosing the middle class, creating a more stratified society, since our public school system is in the toliet, and, we have people that are incredibly wealthy. I'm going to use the SFUSD superintendent as an example. This person was hired for nearly 500k a year. Everyone thought she would perform miracles. Didn't happen, and, she failed to meet her objectives. Offered a professorship at a mid-west college, she bailed a year early on her contract. She was given a golden parachute of 400k for leaving early. She was also able to sell back her life time medical insurance for 200k. So, for failing, quiting early, she was given a 600k severance package. I quit that school district since first they lied about supporting my credential program, then misrepresented the pay scale. I was supposed to be paid scale, which would have been 50k a year. Instead, they had a 'special' emergency pay scale, that paid 35k a year. Busboys in San Francisco make more then that...
As a Politics minor, I can see where BO believes that in the long run, this country needs to spread it's wealth among a larger group of people. One of the lessons of political history is to stratify a society destabilizes it, and makes it ripe for insurrection.
Now, this thread is about BO, and what he does well. It's not about members bickering, and ad homs. Please get this junk out of my thread, and take it to PM.
The only thing being worse in Hawaii then white, is black.
I suspect that was his training ground for learning to play the system, and, use every advantage possible to gain position. Good on him. On the otherhand, he could have claimed to be from Indonesia, and had very little, if any prejudice focused at him.
The sad part about this is the person is mainly white. Yet, with a little bit of black blood, he is now the savior, and the first black person in a presidential race. Again, good for him, playing it to the hilt.
His entire life has been about race. His mother married outside her race twice, in a time when it was NOT fashionable to do so. Perhaps the good news is if elected, his accomplishments will be viewed for what they are, as a human being, not as a psuedo-black person.
I REALLY wish it was Clarence Thomas running for president. I know a bunch of you may hate this concept, but, I'm not sure BO isn't on to something. We have reached a point that we are loosing the middle class, creating a more stratified society, since our public school system is in the toliet, and, we have people that are incredibly wealthy. I'm going to use the SFUSD superintendent as an example. This person was hired for nearly 500k a year. Everyone thought she would perform miracles. Didn't happen, and, she failed to meet her objectives. Offered a professorship at a mid-west college, she bailed a year early on her contract. She was given a golden parachute of 400k for leaving early. She was also able to sell back her life time medical insurance for 200k. So, for failing, quiting early, she was given a 600k severance package. I quit that school district since first they lied about supporting my credential program, then misrepresented the pay scale. I was supposed to be paid scale, which would have been 50k a year. Instead, they had a 'special' emergency pay scale, that paid 35k a year. Busboys in San Francisco make more then that...
As a Politics minor, I can see where BO believes that in the long run, this country needs to spread it's wealth among a larger group of people. One of the lessons of political history is to stratify a society destabilizes it, and makes it ripe for insurrection.
Now, this thread is about BO, and what he does well. It's not about members bickering, and ad homs. Please get this junk out of my thread, and take it to PM.
JuanCarlos
New member
I don't know about Thomas in particularly, but I can definitely agree that there are several people I'd rather see as our first black president.
Unfortunately, none of them ran.
Of course, it goes both ways. A little bit of black blood is also enough to unite a significant number of racists against him...add a funny name, and now he's also a closet Muslim looking to subject us all to Sharia law.
The one just barely cancels out the other, really.
JuanCarlos
New member
Hmmmmmm......I think this thread might actually have unintentionally become one of the better recent examples of how prevalent racism is on TFL.....hmmmmmmmm
JuanCarlos: OB's position against the war, at the time when everyone wanted blood, after 9/11, was a very unpopular one. Only he, and the black congress person from Oakland voted against giving Bush the authority to run the war, which is also unconstitutional. Congress declares war, they don't pass it off to another branch of government.
I think it was very much a calculated decision on his part, and, he knew he would gain publicity from it, and, the adverse publicity is just as good as good publicity.
He correctly assessed that the war would become unpopular, and, he was right.
I think it was very much a calculated decision on his part, and, he knew he would gain publicity from it, and, the adverse publicity is just as good as good publicity.
He correctly assessed that the war would become unpopular, and, he was right.
Calling BO by his middle name -> Racist?
This is what I'm talking about. If I point out that African Americans benefit
from affirmative action, I'm a racist.
If I use BO's middle name, I'm a racist.
If I point out his Muslim links, I'm a racist.
It looks like if I state any truths about BO, I'm a racist. That may be why
the main stream media has been so reticent about digging into BO's past.
And of course, the liberals call Clarence Thomas an uncle tom because he
doesn't believe in affirmative action.
Liberals are big on labels. They're so busy slinging mud and labels that
they don't have time to look in the mirror.
This is what I'm talking about. If I point out that African Americans benefit
from affirmative action, I'm a racist.
If I use BO's middle name, I'm a racist.
If I point out his Muslim links, I'm a racist.
It looks like if I state any truths about BO, I'm a racist. That may be why
the main stream media has been so reticent about digging into BO's past.
And of course, the liberals call Clarence Thomas an uncle tom because he
doesn't believe in affirmative action.
Liberals are big on labels. They're so busy slinging mud and labels that
they don't have time to look in the mirror.
Start stating truths and maybe you won't come off as a racist. Your posts have been short on truth and long on insinuation. It's a hole you dug for yourself.
Or maybe he believed the war was wrong. He might not have had many allies in Congress or government at the time, but he certainly wasn't alone in his belief among the American citizenry, however small that minority was then. In your view, it seems that if a moral stand looks calculating in retrospect, that somehow negates its moral foundation.
Race is discussed much more openly in Hawaii then here. Since it's out on the table, it defuses the many different cultures that have tried to move in. It also defines how people interact as well. Try and imagine a place where it's discussed like weather, water, air, without the anger and hate you folks put in it.
BO's life, and time has been about race. It's real simple. Where he grew up, who his mother decided to marry, race was a huge issue, even more then than it is now. His step-father was Muslim, and Indonesian. That's a fact.
His father was from Kenya, and, had very dark skin. Fact.
Saab1911:
The irony is in Hawaii, if you are called a racist it's not fighting words. It's like,
"Yes, I am. So's everybody else that lives here, in one way or another. We are all humans, and, we all have racial ties. Who cares?"
It's a much healthier way of looking at things.
Example: I took the Fireman's test over there. Out of 500, I was 334. 333 was the cut off for consideration for a position. I had a couple Hawaiians tell me to take the test, because they thought I'd make a good fireman, so we could surf giant waves together.
I told a friend, white, over there, but raised there his entire life. He said something like,
"Of course it's fixed. It's like the lottery. Everybody knows they aren't going to win, but, they play anyway."
Turns out the exam was leaked, and answers, to the local Hawaiians taking the test, and, the scores were fixed as well.
Because of the situation, that was easy to take. If anyone deserved to have an advantage due to race, it was the Hawaiian people, since, up until 1951, it was their island.
Perhaps BO is right. Perhaps we do need to distribute wealth in a manner that brings all the poor up to middle class. Why couldn't we do this? Think of all the money wasted on foreign aid, and wars, and think what we could do to the quality of living, giving that money back to the lower income United States people?
What this thread really has me thinking is the Demorats and their Elephant friends are both about 50 years behind the times, as is the makeup of law school, law, and faculty. Women are over 50% of the population. Why aren't they represented at that rate? Blacks are considerably less, what, 10%?
BO's life, and time has been about race. It's real simple. Where he grew up, who his mother decided to marry, race was a huge issue, even more then than it is now. His step-father was Muslim, and Indonesian. That's a fact.
His father was from Kenya, and, had very dark skin. Fact.
Saab1911:
The irony is in Hawaii, if you are called a racist it's not fighting words. It's like,
"Yes, I am. So's everybody else that lives here, in one way or another. We are all humans, and, we all have racial ties. Who cares?"
It's a much healthier way of looking at things.
Example: I took the Fireman's test over there. Out of 500, I was 334. 333 was the cut off for consideration for a position. I had a couple Hawaiians tell me to take the test, because they thought I'd make a good fireman, so we could surf giant waves together.
I told a friend, white, over there, but raised there his entire life. He said something like,
"Of course it's fixed. It's like the lottery. Everybody knows they aren't going to win, but, they play anyway."
Turns out the exam was leaked, and answers, to the local Hawaiians taking the test, and, the scores were fixed as well.
Because of the situation, that was easy to take. If anyone deserved to have an advantage due to race, it was the Hawaiian people, since, up until 1951, it was their island.
Perhaps BO is right. Perhaps we do need to distribute wealth in a manner that brings all the poor up to middle class. Why couldn't we do this? Think of all the money wasted on foreign aid, and wars, and think what we could do to the quality of living, giving that money back to the lower income United States people?
What this thread really has me thinking is the Demorats and their Elephant friends are both about 50 years behind the times, as is the makeup of law school, law, and faculty. Women are over 50% of the population. Why aren't they represented at that rate? Blacks are considerably less, what, 10%?
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