NYPD and no more revolvers
- Thread starter Glenn E. Meyer
- Start date
Frank Ettin
Administrator
"Spray and Pray" by NYPD?
Let's not have speculative discussion about how the NYPD performs in shooting or gun handling.
The NYPD keeps extensive records on the subject and publishes an Annual Firearms Discharge Report. We therefore have data, and speculation isn't necessary or useful.
Let's not have speculative discussion about how the NYPD performs in shooting or gun handling.
The NYPD keeps extensive records on the subject and publishes an Annual Firearms Discharge Report. We therefore have data, and speculation isn't necessary or useful.
Annual records for a number of police depts. are available from those departments, NYPD, LAPD, etc. They are worthwhile studies and deserve to be read.
It's not useful, IMHO, to mock these agencies in regard to this.
Anyway only a small number of NYPD officers still had revolvers as a primary and those were grandfathered in only for those on the job before 1994. This will mostly effect those carrying them as backups.
tipoc
It's not useful, IMHO, to mock these agencies in regard to this.
Anyway only a small number of NYPD officers still had revolvers as a primary and those were grandfathered in only for those on the job before 1994. This will mostly effect those carrying them as backups.
tipoc
Many vintage Hoyt's on Ebay and elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...oyt+holsters.TRS0&_nkw=hoyt+holsters&_sacat=0
tipoc
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...oyt+holsters.TRS0&_nkw=hoyt+holsters&_sacat=0
tipoc
Gaucho Gringo
New member
I agree, today the police practice spray and pray. In police shootouts in the last 15-20 years the ratio between the number of shots fired and the number of hits on the perp is enough to make a blind man an expert marksman by comparison.
Anytime this topic comes up, there is always a group that seems to believe that the guy carrying a high capacity pistol is less proficient and less prepared for a fight than the old guy carrying a .357 magnum. That isn't necessarily so. Given the option of two or three times the number of rounds available before a reload and the fact that the pistol can be reloaded faster, being the old guy putting rounds through the X with a semi-automatic is ok with me. If four legged critters weighing hundreds of pounds are the target, I'll take the revolver. For two legged preditors I'll take a 9 mm.
stuckinthe60s
New member
I learned on a s&w m10 4". good memories.
Model12Win
Moderator
What they're trying to say is most of the youngsters are focused on the tactical operator stuff and simply don't shoot for tight groups as the older generations.
In this situation, without a doubt the well placed round from the old revolverman would prove more effective.
I agree.
In this situation, without a doubt the well placed round from the old revolverman would prove more effective.
I agree.
I completely agree that well placed rounds are the goal for the cop or civilian since that is what stops the fight. What I don't agree with is that all the older officers carrying revolvers were able to do it more effectively than the newer ones carrying semi-automatics. I also don't think being able to shoot out the X at the range is the measure of how proficient a police officer or anyone else is at surviving a gunfight.
I know it is easy to remember fondly the old days when men were men, cops didn't talk much about tactics or capacity, and everyone who carried a gun was a great shot. I'm not sure that was any more true then than now. I know a bunch of cops. Most are older guys like me, but in my experience the youngsters are as committed to excellence as the rest. This idea that cops can't shoot isn't my experience. Them carrying high capacity pistols and a couple of reloads gives them a better chance of survival on the street and makes the community safer. Revolvers have their place, but no longer as service weapons.
I know it is easy to remember fondly the old days when men were men, cops didn't talk much about tactics or capacity, and everyone who carried a gun was a great shot. I'm not sure that was any more true then than now. I know a bunch of cops. Most are older guys like me, but in my experience the youngsters are as committed to excellence as the rest. This idea that cops can't shoot isn't my experience. Them carrying high capacity pistols and a couple of reloads gives them a better chance of survival on the street and makes the community safer. Revolvers have their place, but no longer as service weapons.
I believe excellent shots existed in the revolver days
and they exist today with the hi cap autos.
At issue if any is that for the less than stellar shots on
a PD, and that might be the majority, the auto just
triples the chances of misdirected shots.
I remember a case in a Chicago suburb where
an officer killed a suspect with three shots, two
in limbs and one in torso. But the officer let loose
with more than a dozen shots at close range. The
majority of shots hit the street or went wildly
through the neighborhood. Luckily no one
else was injured or killed.
and they exist today with the hi cap autos.
At issue if any is that for the less than stellar shots on
a PD, and that might be the majority, the auto just
triples the chances of misdirected shots.
I remember a case in a Chicago suburb where
an officer killed a suspect with three shots, two
in limbs and one in torso. But the officer let loose
with more than a dozen shots at close range. The
majority of shots hit the street or went wildly
through the neighborhood. Luckily no one
else was injured or killed.
Model12Win
Moderator
While some of what you say is true, still hard to beat the incredible reliability of the revolver.
The old saying goes I'd rather have 6 for sure instead of 15 made sense then and still makes sense today.
In a gunfight no one cares about the ten ring. If you're hitting the X you're shooting too slow. Survival in a gunfight comes down to speed, both speed of shooting and speed of identifying and processing the threat; good enough accuracy, and a will to win. A little luck never hurts either.
You can spray and pray with a revolver. You'll just run out of bullets sooner.
You can spray and pray with a revolver. You'll just run out of bullets sooner.
Model12Win
Moderator
+1
Sorry, but I see it every day. The hot new auto guy can't shoot, just dumps rounds into the air around the target and tries to look as cool as can be.
The revolver people just shoot better. They come from a generation where they made every shot count and didn't rely on a bucket o' bullets under the gun. Today we have cops that simply cannot shoot and instead dump the guns into innocent citizens on accident, happens all the time in New York.
Add the low reliability of any auto compared to a wheelgun and you quickly see which is the better fightsman's piece. Elmer Keith wrote the wheelgun is king of the fight, the auto is not suited for combat.
Any old cantankerous today with a trusted .38 or .357 is a worse foe to face than any young whippersnapper with his new wonder 9 Block. Get over it, face the facts, revolvers are better than autos and they always have been and always will be.
-M12