Not All That Happy with My New Springfield-
- Thread starter ckurts
- Start date
Excuses...excuses...excuses
I swear, I have never heard of more excuses for a guns malfunctions than from people who own 1911 guns. It might have been the cat's meow in 1911, but not anymore. I have owned a number of 1911s manufactured by Springfield, Colt (both commercial and WWII vintage) and while they feel good and are easy to completely disassemble, they always have their share of problems, plunger tube anyone? I don't mean to put down those who like them because they are fun to play with, but admit it folks, the design has been eclipsed. 2 piece feed ramp, extractor tension controlled by how much bend the extractor has, please, this is a primitive method of controling tension. I realize that because there are so many variations, there is a lot of variance in quality control, but still, it is a design that dates from the beginning of semi-auto pistols, it just simply has inherent flaws in its design that have been corrected as semi-auto pistols have evolved. As for the 1911 being a pistol for a "grown up man or woman" and being the "mighty 1911", perhaps in the eyes of zealots, but to more objective minds those statements are laughable. Only in America does the 1911 cling to life among a certain few, the rest of the world has moved on and not looked back (in case you are wondering, I am an American, a Minnesotan, in fact). Again, I have no problem with those who like to shoot and own them, I still own my Colt WWII production one, however, I know its limitations and don't few it as John Brownings' gift to mankind, but merely as an evolutionary step along the way, sort of like a Neanderthal (sorry, could resist).
I swear, I have never heard of more excuses for a guns malfunctions than from people who own 1911 guns. It might have been the cat's meow in 1911, but not anymore. I have owned a number of 1911s manufactured by Springfield, Colt (both commercial and WWII vintage) and while they feel good and are easy to completely disassemble, they always have their share of problems, plunger tube anyone? I don't mean to put down those who like them because they are fun to play with, but admit it folks, the design has been eclipsed. 2 piece feed ramp, extractor tension controlled by how much bend the extractor has, please, this is a primitive method of controling tension. I realize that because there are so many variations, there is a lot of variance in quality control, but still, it is a design that dates from the beginning of semi-auto pistols, it just simply has inherent flaws in its design that have been corrected as semi-auto pistols have evolved. As for the 1911 being a pistol for a "grown up man or woman" and being the "mighty 1911", perhaps in the eyes of zealots, but to more objective minds those statements are laughable. Only in America does the 1911 cling to life among a certain few, the rest of the world has moved on and not looked back (in case you are wondering, I am an American, a Minnesotan, in fact). Again, I have no problem with those who like to shoot and own them, I still own my Colt WWII production one, however, I know its limitations and don't few it as John Brownings' gift to mankind, but merely as an evolutionary step along the way, sort of like a Neanderthal (sorry, could resist).
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
"The scooter(made of hundreds of machined parts) you ride for fun and the gun I stake my life on are two entirely different matters."
Wrong.
It is the same thing. The same exact thing. If you are a serious rider you take just as much care if not a great deal more in your equipment and your skills. Every time you get on a bike you are certainly putting your life on the line and betting that your machine and your skills are up to the task.
I'll even go so far as to say that you do so to a much greater extent that one does when one is carrying a CCW - or even going on duty with your issued weapon. Yes - you will depend on that weapon IF you get into trouble... but you depend on your bike and your skills to not only keep you out of trouble but to get you out as well... its a CONSTANT thing that is an intimate part of riding.
Wrong.
It is the same thing. The same exact thing. If you are a serious rider you take just as much care if not a great deal more in your equipment and your skills. Every time you get on a bike you are certainly putting your life on the line and betting that your machine and your skills are up to the task.
I'll even go so far as to say that you do so to a much greater extent that one does when one is carrying a CCW - or even going on duty with your issued weapon. Yes - you will depend on that weapon IF you get into trouble... but you depend on your bike and your skills to not only keep you out of trouble but to get you out as well... its a CONSTANT thing that is an intimate part of riding.
eger precision
New member
There is a reason that an entire industry has been built on making 1911's work.
None of this is rocket science.
Like I have said before----you throw down 500 bucks + for ANY gun, the durn thing ought to work.
But then again, 80% of what rolls in to work on to make reliable, not to upgrade, are 1911's.
Kind of like golf I guess, every shot makes somebody happy.
None of this is rocket science.
Like I have said before----you throw down 500 bucks + for ANY gun, the durn thing ought to work.
But then again, 80% of what rolls in to work on to make reliable, not to upgrade, are 1911's.
Kind of like golf I guess, every shot makes somebody happy.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Sour Grapes... There is a reason there is an industry around the 1911... 
Same reason that can be said about the Mustang, Camaro, and Honda Civic.
If I have to explain that to you - then you wouldnt get it.
Same reason that can be said about the Mustang, Camaro, and Honda Civic.
If I have to explain that to you - then you wouldnt get it.
So's yer mama
Quote: "There is a reason that an entire industry has been built on making 1911's work."
Would that be because there's about a jillion of them out there compared to any other gun? Or is it because of the number of people who buy a 1911 as their first gun, before they now how to shoot or maintain one? Or is it because no one ever changes their recoil and firing pin springs after "only" 2000 rounds? Or is it because people expect the parts from one manufacturer's gun to fit a gun from another manufacturer? Or is it because people can't help but try to "improve" their gun as soon as they get it? Or is it because people are extra picky about the performance of their favorite 1911?
Pray tell, what is "the" reason for all this effort?
Quote: "There is a reason that an entire industry has been built on making 1911's work."
Would that be because there's about a jillion of them out there compared to any other gun? Or is it because of the number of people who buy a 1911 as their first gun, before they now how to shoot or maintain one? Or is it because no one ever changes their recoil and firing pin springs after "only" 2000 rounds? Or is it because people expect the parts from one manufacturer's gun to fit a gun from another manufacturer? Or is it because people can't help but try to "improve" their gun as soon as they get it? Or is it because people are extra picky about the performance of their favorite 1911?
Pray tell, what is "the" reason for all this effort?
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
You gotta love the Hot Rod syndrome... And the 1911 has it in spades. You take something cool and powerful like a hotrod or a 1911 and instantly people want to customize it in some way.
Proof?
Judas - just look at all the aftermarket grips! Of course these fellows, these naysayers, would say that its because the stock grips suck or that they have grip failures... No! Its because people like the options! People like to personalize your cool stuff... They like customizations!
How many of you have kept your default Windows settings for sounds, wallpaper or screen savers? Huh?
Proof?
Judas - just look at all the aftermarket grips! Of course these fellows, these naysayers, would say that its because the stock grips suck or that they have grip failures... No! Its because people like the options! People like to personalize your cool stuff... They like customizations!
How many of you have kept your default Windows settings for sounds, wallpaper or screen savers? Huh?
lonegunman
New member
The 1911 is the best and worst of semi-autos in my opinion.
I agree a higher percentage of 1911s do have reliability problems out of the box, compared to Sigs, Berettas, and Glocks. At least, that has been my experience.
BUT, when it all comes together right, there aint NOTHING better.
90% of 1911's are 100% reliable... you just gotta get one of those 90% or be willing to get some work done on it.
1911s are like sports cars. If you dont have the time, patience, and money to dabble in 1911s or sports cars, you better stick to berettas and fords.
I agree a higher percentage of 1911s do have reliability problems out of the box, compared to Sigs, Berettas, and Glocks. At least, that has been my experience.
BUT, when it all comes together right, there aint NOTHING better.
90% of 1911's are 100% reliable... you just gotta get one of those 90% or be willing to get some work done on it.
1911s are like sports cars. If you dont have the time, patience, and money to dabble in 1911s or sports cars, you better stick to berettas and fords.
SKEPTIK420
New member
All i know is that you don't hear of too many H&K's having problems
so......
there's my 2 cents
=)
so......
there's my 2 cents
=)
Ahh... Its me again (carefully peeking around the corner)
Just checking to see if posters are calling for my execution by a firing squad of 1911s yet...
Anyway, I don't mean to put down owners of 1911s, I just get a bit fired up when I hear goofy comments about 1911s like how it is the finest design that ever was, or John Browning might have been the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, etc., etc., etc. Same goes for the the .45 Auto crap that gets bantered around, "all fall to hardball, blah, blah, blah". My 1911 Colt WWII production I inherited from my grandfather. It served with him in WWII in the european theater. He was a Captain in the infantry. As I understand it, he had the misfortune of using it on a couple of Germans. After I started getting into shooting handguns, I asked him about his experience with this gun in the war. I asked him in the context of how the gun performed, not something stupid like what was it like to kill someone. He told me that the gun was ok, but it did malfunction and the Germans he shot with it did not "fall to hardball", even after being shot numerous times, his hide was saved by two of his comrades with M1s. He said he started carrying a German P38 after that and found it to be more reliable than the 1911. A few of his friends did the same and they preferred the P38s performance both in reliability and lethality to the 1911. I have his P38 too. He never shot anybody with his. The 1911 is just obsolete 1st generation service pistol that has been replaced by better, more reliable designs in a caliber that is as effective if not more so than the .45. Flame on!
Just checking to see if posters are calling for my execution by a firing squad of 1911s yet...
Anyway, I don't mean to put down owners of 1911s, I just get a bit fired up when I hear goofy comments about 1911s like how it is the finest design that ever was, or John Browning might have been the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, etc., etc., etc. Same goes for the the .45 Auto crap that gets bantered around, "all fall to hardball, blah, blah, blah". My 1911 Colt WWII production I inherited from my grandfather. It served with him in WWII in the european theater. He was a Captain in the infantry. As I understand it, he had the misfortune of using it on a couple of Germans. After I started getting into shooting handguns, I asked him about his experience with this gun in the war. I asked him in the context of how the gun performed, not something stupid like what was it like to kill someone. He told me that the gun was ok, but it did malfunction and the Germans he shot with it did not "fall to hardball", even after being shot numerous times, his hide was saved by two of his comrades with M1s. He said he started carrying a German P38 after that and found it to be more reliable than the 1911. A few of his friends did the same and they preferred the P38s performance both in reliability and lethality to the 1911. I have his P38 too. He never shot anybody with his. The 1911 is just obsolete 1st generation service pistol that has been replaced by better, more reliable designs in a caliber that is as effective if not more so than the .45. Flame on!
All due respect...
A pistol should work out of the box or it should be thrown in the nearest large body of water. The idea that a 1911 type pistol should be broken in is as fatuous as the idea that a rifle barrel needs to be broken in. Thanks to Gale McMillan who had enough credibility that he could put at least one myth to death before he passed away.
A pistol should work out of the box or it should be thrown in the nearest large body of water. The idea that a 1911 type pistol should be broken in is as fatuous as the idea that a rifle barrel needs to be broken in. Thanks to Gale McMillan who had enough credibility that he could put at least one myth to death before he passed away.
I spoke with Terry Tussey at the Del Mar gunshow this past Sunday. The conversation went to extractors at one point and he explained what Springfield did and what mine would be like (this before he saw and held the pistol). Then I handed him the pistol and low and behold he was right. The Springfield extractor seemed to have a lot of steel missing in the claw area where it grabs the rim. I wouldn't say that is the problem, but it's worth checking.
As far as magazines go, I use the Shooting Stars and they seem fine to me. I personally like the 10 rounders but that's just a preference. Mec-gars didn't seem to work with my Colt so I stopped using them altogether. Some work some don't so what, just find some magazines that do work be they Mec-gar, Wilson, McCormick, Colt whatever.
As far as magazines go, I use the Shooting Stars and they seem fine to me. I personally like the 10 rounders but that's just a preference. Mec-gars didn't seem to work with my Colt so I stopped using them altogether. Some work some don't so what, just find some magazines that do work be they Mec-gar, Wilson, McCormick, Colt whatever.
sorry about the "so's yer mama"
Where the he|| is ckurts, he started all this. I bet his gun works fine now.
Anyway, most of us are keen to buy 1911's that have the closest possible tolerances for accuracy's sake. This is at odds with the belief that greatest reliability, especially in extreme conditions or extended shooting between cleanings, is obtained with looser tolerances.
So, if you buy a modern 1911 built for accuracy, it will be more reliable as the parts wear and tolerances increase.
Just perpetuating a myth, I guess.
Regards to all.
Where the he|| is ckurts, he started all this. I bet his gun works fine now.
Anyway, most of us are keen to buy 1911's that have the closest possible tolerances for accuracy's sake. This is at odds with the belief that greatest reliability, especially in extreme conditions or extended shooting between cleanings, is obtained with looser tolerances.
So, if you buy a modern 1911 built for accuracy, it will be more reliable as the parts wear and tolerances increase.
Just perpetuating a myth, I guess.
Regards to all.
Springfield has awesome customer service. If your gun doesn't work with good ammo and good mags, they will fix it. I had a problem with a stainless loaded model, they fixed it immediatly, tested it with 4 different mags that I sent with the gun, and 3 kinds of hollowpoints, (golddots, golden sabres, hydro-shoks). Second day aired it back to me on their own money, all because they knew that I was in a hurry to get it back, and they were really nice on the phone!
I have seen 1911s malfunction, I have seen Glocks malfunction, I have seen Sigs malfunction, I have seen HKs malfunction, hell I have seen an AK47 malfunction. Any mechanical object can break, parts can be damaged, things might not fit right.
And I will say this, a lot of us prefer 1911s because we can do things with them that we are unable to do with other kinds of handguns. That is our personal choice. Get what you like and shoot it.
Is the 1911 obsolete, not even close. I've shot an HK USP quite a bit and it is considered one of the most advanced guns out there. The 1911 has a far easier to use trigger, they were both about equally accurate, but the HK was bulkier. The HK was lighter, but it had more felt recoil. Go figure. Reliable, sure the HK probably is more reliable, but since my 1911 hasn't jammed with decent ammo since I got it back from Springfield I consider that a moot point. (I have jammed one of my own reloads, but you know, crimping the bullet helps. )
But I'm not bashing HK, they are a great gun. Just get what works for you. If that happens to be a 1911, get one. If it needs some work to be reliable, do it. Then you have a good gun. Enjoy.
If a gun was designed 90 years ago to shoot bullets, and it still does shoots bullets, how is it obsolete?
I have seen 1911s malfunction, I have seen Glocks malfunction, I have seen Sigs malfunction, I have seen HKs malfunction, hell I have seen an AK47 malfunction.
Any mechanical object can break, parts can be damaged, things might not fit right. And I will say this, a lot of us prefer 1911s because we can do things with them that we are unable to do with other kinds of handguns. That is our personal choice. Get what you like and shoot it.
Is the 1911 obsolete, not even close. I've shot an HK USP quite a bit and it is considered one of the most advanced guns out there. The 1911 has a far easier to use trigger, they were both about equally accurate, but the HK was bulkier. The HK was lighter, but it had more felt recoil. Go figure. Reliable, sure the HK probably is more reliable, but since my 1911 hasn't jammed with decent ammo since I got it back from Springfield I consider that a moot point. (I have jammed one of my own reloads, but you know, crimping the bullet helps.
)But I'm not bashing HK, they are a great gun. Just get what works for you. If that happens to be a 1911, get one. If it needs some work to be reliable, do it. Then you have a good gun. Enjoy.
If a gun was designed 90 years ago to shoot bullets, and it still does shoots bullets, how is it obsolete?
Charles Johnson
New member
Any pistol should be tested thoroughly before being used for self-defense, including Glock, HK, Sig, etc. I recently purchased a Springfield, which I am testing extensively. It initially had quite a few jams. I shot 200 rounds today without a single problem. It now has 750 rounds through it. Hmm, maybe it did need some break-in? It is MUCH more accurate than my Glocks and HK. The trigger is MUCH better (probably why I can hit better with it). When I am satisfied that it is reliable, guess which one I will use for home defense? The 1911. When I am finished testing my new STI Ranger, it will replace my Glock 26 as my carry weapon. When my wife gets her CCW, her new STI LS-40 will be her choice for carry. The benefits, as I see them, of the 1911 are a better trigger in a thinner gun. And it doesn't hurt that it is the best looking semi-auto there is . I sure can't wait for those grips I ordered...
My point is why should out-of-the-box performance matter so much? The 1911 requires more break-in because it is a tighter gun. If I remember correctly, one reason Gale McMillan didn't like rifle barrel break-in was that some rifle barrel makers recommended it as a sneaky way (in my opinion unethical) to shorten the lifespan of barrels, thus increasing demand. I don't think there are any parallels between rifle barrel break-in and 1911 break-in. Rifle barrels will last no where near as long as a handgun. But I'm no expert, so I'm willing to consider other opinions.
. I sure can't wait for those grips I ordered...My point is why should out-of-the-box performance matter so much? The 1911 requires more break-in because it is a tighter gun. If I remember correctly, one reason Gale McMillan didn't like rifle barrel break-in was that some rifle barrel makers recommended it as a sneaky way (in my opinion unethical) to shorten the lifespan of barrels, thus increasing demand. I don't think there are any parallels between rifle barrel break-in and 1911 break-in. Rifle barrels will last no where near as long as a handgun. But I'm no expert, so I'm willing to consider other opinions.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
"Any pistol should be tested thoroughly before being used for self-defense, including Glock, HK, Sig, etc. "
Thats exactly right.
The same thing goes for Ammo - but even more so. The rule when I wore a badge was that you fired a MINIMUM of 500 rounds through the gun and 200 rounds specifically of the Duty Ammo you want to carry. Thats 700 rounds before that gun and ammo combo is certified for carry. One fellow I worked with, Partner actually, carried a Norinco Mil-Spec 1911. It passed the test. Not only that - he certified 3 different loads for it. Thats 1100 rounds worth of testing. That pistol did just fine. The only change he made to the pistol was to take the wood grips off and put rubber ones on.
Thats exactly right.
The same thing goes for Ammo - but even more so. The rule when I wore a badge was that you fired a MINIMUM of 500 rounds through the gun and 200 rounds specifically of the Duty Ammo you want to carry. Thats 700 rounds before that gun and ammo combo is certified for carry. One fellow I worked with, Partner actually, carried a Norinco Mil-Spec 1911. It passed the test. Not only that - he certified 3 different loads for it. Thats 1100 rounds worth of testing. That pistol did just fine. The only change he made to the pistol was to take the wood grips off and put rubber ones on.