no big game rifles?

[STORM2]

300 the H&H flavor

A couple of weeks or so ago my LGS took the consignment of a South Gate, Pre-Mark V Weatherby in 300 H&H. Negotiations resulted in my offer being accepted. I knew after realizing the date of the gun, I had to have it! Earlier this year I became smitten with the Mark V and the Roy Weatherby story and history. I left with the gun, a great story and a smile on my face…

I knew ammo would be expensive but I wouldn’t need a bunch, some to get started and a set of dies. I discovered the caliber is tough to feed! A friend gave me 2 boxes for Christmas but I decided I better keep looking for more ammo. This stuff is not finder friendly! Ammoseek said Cabela’s had some “limited quantities” at the Allen (TX) store. I learned limited is = none after I drove to the store.

Now I’m really determined! They were kind enough to check their internal system and found the data said 10 boxes were available at the Ft Worth store. I call, they confirm the 10 boxes are there. I ask if they would hold them for me until I could get there. The girl ask how many I wanted! (I smiled out loud) When I arrived the ammo had my name on it. My story does not end with a great estate sale price story but at least I’ll never need to chase ammo for the old South Gate 300 H&H that I had to have. I don’t hunt any longer but I do love big Weatherby Mark V rifles. Shooting big bore rifles doesn’t necessarily have to do with hunting.

When I was younger I couldn’t afford to collect and shoot Mark V rifles. I paid my dues and I’m gonna shoot big rifles with Steinway piano finished stocks.

 

[ligonierbill]

Ah, the old Super 30, one of my favorites. If you can find brass, and you can if you're patient, it will do well with most any 308 bullet and IMR-4350 or slower powder. And a classic Weatherby - I'm jealous.

 

[stagpanther]

After I bought my 7mm STW barrel I quickly realized that nobody had any ammo or brass available for it (duh); same with 8mm rem mag. I ended up buying a bunch of PPU 375 H&H brass which actually was comparatively cheap. A couple of neck downs and one fire-form shot is all it took; still using it today after multiple firings and it does quite well.

 

[jackstrawIII]

There are only 4 game animals on the planet where a 30-06, or similar cartridge would be underpowered.

JMR casually dropping truth bombs.

 

[HiBC]

I'm feeling too lazy to do research.

There is a 9.3 cartridge that (I believe) is based on the .404 Jeffreys case. No belt, fat diameter. Will fit a standard length(30-06) action.

For practical purposes,its a match for the .375 H+H.

If my mind is right,the 9.3x62 is a .366 dia version of a 35 Whelen. .358 vs .366 is .008 dia.

Both can be necked from 30-06 brass, both use a 30-06 bolt face.

While you may find an exotic bullet,such as a Woodleigh, for the 9.3 ,you also may find "No Bullets Available".


I advocate the idea that as long as we deliver a quick kill, you reasons for your cartridge choice need no justification. Your preference will do.

You don't need my approval.

Blondes,Redheads,or silver grey hair? (Lady Clairol makes all possible) .

Bourbon,Scotch,or Irish Whiskey?

Whatever works for you-. If you want a 9.3 x62, no need to convince me.

IMO,in the time we had barrels of 98 Mausers at the hardware store, to neck an 8x57 up to .338 diameter and Ackley Improve it may not have made sense, but it was an interesting idea. No,I never did.

After a lot of pondering over the years, and loving one 35 Whelen,

I'd choose a 338-06 over the 9.3x62 or the 35 Whelen.

Why? Bullet availabiliy. Bore to case ratio. Trajectory. The .338-06 is more likely to be a "standard" for dies and reamers.

All that is splitting hairs and shades of grey. It does not matter.

Its like who you are attracted to. Be free to get excited and enjoy.

 

[natman]

I'd choose a 338-06 over the 9.3x62 or the 35 Whelen.

Why? Bullet availabiliy. Bore to case ratio. Trajectory. The .338-06 is more likely to be a "standard" for dies and reamers.

Sorry, but no. RCBS dies for standard production 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are $41.99. Dies for the wildcat 338-06 are $75.99

 

[taylorce1]

Dies for the wildcat 338-06 are $75.99

Dies might be more expensive, but the .338-06 isn't a wildcat. A-Square standardized the cartridge back in 1998. Weatherby even produced rifles in it for a time.

In addition to HiBC's point it's probably faster to get a .338 caliber barrel. Barrel makers are more likely to have .338 blanks in stock over 9.3 and .358 bores. Simply because .338 is more popular with long range shooting than 9.3 and .358 calibers.

JMR casually dropping truth bombs.

Actually the .30-06 has probably killed every big game animal on the planet. So have many other cartridges considered less powerful. In fact I read a few years ago the most common round used by poachers in Africa of Big 5 game is 7.62X39 in an AK-47.

I realize poaching and hunting are two different things and not related. My point is most cartridges a capable of being lethal on big game, even elephant, buffalo, rhino, hippo, and large bears. However if you want more reaction out of game animals "more" is usually better. More velocity, bore size, and bullet weight or a combination of the above.

 

[Paul B.]

"Dies might be more expensive, but the .338-06 isn't a wildcat. A-Square standardized the cartridge back in 1998. Weatherby even produced rifles in it for a time."

Apparently there is a difference between the A-Square 338-06 and the Nosler version. I read somewhere that there is some difference in the shoulder. I wish I could find the source but it was early on when Nosler brought out their version of the cartridge. Maybe it turned out to a bit of nothing and maybe there was something to it. Probably a good source of information my be from RCBS.

There must be a real reason for RCBS to keep the price up on those dies. Could be there is a bit of difference between the two versions and RCBS has to diddle with the machinery to make one or the other.

Me? I'll just stick to my .35 Whelen and call it good
Paul B.

 

[taylorce1]

Apparently there is a difference between the A-Square 338-06 and the Nosler version. I read somewhere that there is some difference in the shoulder. I wish I could find the source but it was early on when Nosler brought out their version of the cartridge.

There is no difference in Nosler ammo and the .338-06 A-Square. In fact Nosler manufactured the Weatherby branded .338-06 ammunition. What you are referencing is the .280 AI differences between the Wildcat and Nosler's version.

I think RCBS keeps the die prices high as the .338-06 was a short lived commercial round. Factory rifles are still being manufactured in .35 Whelen and 9.3X62, as well as factory ammunition. There is just a higher probability that they'll sell more product, allowing them to keep the price lower.

 

[HiBC]

Just to be clear, I highly valued the 35 Whelen I built. I gave it up for economic reasons. I did not imagine any shortcomings . There is certainly no reason to abandon a good 35 Whelen for a 338-06.

If I were starting over, clean sheet of paper, frankly, these days a 30-06 seems just fine....
But if I had the itch for the mid-bore, my "shade of grey" preference would be 338-06.
Nosler # 5 manual says the 225gr Partition, BC .454, can Max load be driven to
2575 fps with IMR 4350
The 200/210 gr Noslers will do 2650+ ( Max) with RE-15 and IMR4320
Thats enough velocity for reasonable hunting ranges.

In fairness to the 9.3x62,it flings a 250 gr Ballistic Tip (Max) at 2525 fps and a BC of .494
And a 286 gr Partition will exceed 2400 fps with a max load of RE-15.

Thats a bit more "thump" by the numbers.

And the 35 Whelen is right in there,max loads exceeding 2500 fps with 225/250 gr bullets.

Pick one and enjoy!

I stand corrected on die prices. That $30 might tip the deal!!

A couple of Big Mac meals there!!

 

[Webleymkv]

Were I to venture a guess, the various rifle makers probably sell a fraction of the guns in the big dangerous game cartridges that they do in smaller, more mainstream cartridges. As such, I'd be willing to bet that rifles in dangerous game calibers aren't in continuous production but rather are likely produced in runs every few years (we know that ammunition is produced this way). Also, the larger retailers like Cabela's and Bud's probably stock very few, if any, of these rifles because they simply don't sell very many and it's expensive inventory to have sitting around for years on end.

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a brand-new rifle in .375 H&H or bigger in person though I have come across a fair number of pre-owned ones over the years. If you really want a rifle in a caliber suitable for African dangerous game, you might be better off looking for a used one as you'll spend less money, the gun may actually be easier to find, and most such rifles are very lightly used due to both the cost of ammunition/components and the average shooter's tolerance for recoil.

 

[STORM2]

Reasons to Want/Search for Guns

This thread has gone for several pages. Rereading the posts I realized for the most part folks chimed in offering that Dangerous Game and Big Caliber were related reasons to own/want/search for big calibers. Some offered the fun of shooting them without plans to do any hunting.

I bought my Weatherby 300 H&H because it was an old Weatherby. I would have bought the pre-Mark V, South Gate 1957 gun regardless of the caliber. I bought an old gun with unique history.

I’m sure there are many reasons folks buy guns….then there are occasions we just want the gun and don’t have/need a reason. My response to the question “Why did you buy that …. ?). “….because I can!”.

I once bought a rag top jeep. When I started justifying my reasons to my X/O, he stopped me and said “Stop trying to justify the jeep to me; you bought it because you could”. I still remember/use his advice.

 

[taylorce1]

Since the OP started talking about the 9.3X62, here is a Winchester available through Lipsey's. It's a copy of a BAR so technically in the wrong forum, but it fits in the topic.

 

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by STORM2
This thread has gone for several pages. Rereading the posts I realized for the most part folks chimed in offering that Dangerous Game and Big Caliber were related reasons to own/want/search for big calibers. Some offered the fun of shooting them without plans to do any hunting.

As someone who often has, admittedly, non-mainstream tastes in firearms, I agree that there's no more justification needed to purchase something than "I want it and I can afford it." That being said, someone who has non-mainstream tastes must also accept the fact that, because what they like isn't common or popular, it's likely to be difficult to find and/or expensive. I would absolutely love to have a double rifle in a caliber that has "Nitro Express" in its name even though I will likely never hunt in Africa, but I understand and accept the fact that I'm not likely to walk into Cabela's, Sportsman's Warehouse, or Academy and find one waiting for me.

Honestly, for someone like me, if my oddball guns were easy to find it would take some of the fun out of them because the hunt is half the fun. I've got some firearms that I searched for decades to find as they were always unavailable, cost more than I was willing to pay, or were in poor condition when they turned up. When you've searched for something for 15 or 20 years before the stars finally align for you to get it, it makes getting it all the sweeter.

 

[darkgael]

DR

I am sympathetic to that set of ideas...I, too, wanted a DR from the moment that I read about them....was it Teddy Roosevelt or one of the legendary ivory hunters of Africa's "golden age"? I don't remember now. What I did was, as years passed and no gun appeared was...I settled. I was in a LGS the year Ruger starting offering its #1 African. There was one on the rack. In .416 Rigby. Was that not what Harry Selby's bolt gun was? its went home with me. Not a DR.....ok but it was an African gun.
Sometime after that I found small DR on Gunbroker chambered in a Rook caliber. It was an old gun from Holland and Sons.. It was not in good shape (fore end buggered, off the face, etc). I took it the the H&H showroom in NYC. They were pleasant and recommended That I return it to the seller. I did.
Some years passed and no DR appeared, even as my finances improved. Then an alternative appeared. A Rizzini 90L Express rifle in .30-06. Not a SXS, it did have two barrels. I have it still. No regrets.

 

[Paul B.]

There's nothing wrong with a DGR based on a single shot rifle like the Ruger #1. The late John "Pondoro" Taylor once wrote in his book, "AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES" on taking on two lions with a .450 something Martini Henry, one being in full blown charge, one shot each.

A few years back I had planned to use one of my Ruger #1s, I have a .375 H&H, .404 jeffery and .416 Rigby one a Cape Buffalo hunt. Unfortunately life got in the way and I never got to do the hunt. All three rifles are currently in semi-retirement and do get out once in a while. These days though I don't do that as much as at my age, a detached retina is quite possible. At least I still get to fondle them and think of what might have been.
Paul B.

 

[LAH]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1022386155
Model 70 in 458. It's on my watch list but I'll never own one now.