no big game rifles?

[darkgael]

I will never hunt in Africa. I will, most probably, never hunt dangerous game. I knew this when I was a boy reading Bob Ruark's books. Nevertheless, I was infected with the romance of the big cartridges.....Harry Selby carried a .416 Rigby.
One day, browsing the LGS, there was a Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby. I bought it. That was more than 30 years ago. I shoot it regularly....standing, sitting, occasionally benched. It is great fun....and isn't that what it is all about? Shooting that rifle has taught me a lot.....learning how to hold a heavy kicker (lesser cartridges hold no mystery), learning not to flinch, learning how to stand/sit so that the recoil does not rearrange your geometry. I won't ever hunt with it but I will keep shooting it. I am 77.

BTW: The Rigby is an amazingly easy cartridge to reload.

 

[stagpanther]

Really good article on "why the 416 weatherby."

 

[taylorce1]

Current Lipsey's catalog DGR rifles, you'd need to call before ordering.

.375 H&H Magnum
.375 Ruger
.416 Ruger
.416 Weatherby Mag

I think it's like anything else, manufacturers produce what sells the most. They do know there is a demand for DGR rifles thats why they keep them cataloged. Then every few years they make a few and they'll sit on a warehouse shelf until someone orders them.

Luckily, all you need for a DGR is a rebarrel of your current .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag. You can easily have a 9.3X62, .458 Win, .375 or .416 Ruger made from any standard length long action. That's how I converted an old push feed M70 from 7mm RM to .375 Ruger and took it on a Colorado Pronghorn hunt. I might shoot an elk or deer one of these days with it, but it'll probably never see a DGR hunt.

 

[MarkCO]

The average guy, that does most of the hunting in this day and age, buys his rifle in a common medium game chambering and ammo for it at Wally World and hunts deer, bear maybe hogs, when work and obligation allows. If he's lucky, he's in a family camp or a lease if he can afford it. Anything exotic is just not plausible.

I think that is a big part of it. Big game hunting is under attack nationwide. Too many deer in many states, and most of the Western States are damaging (intentionally) their Deer and Elk herds. If I did not live in Colorado, no way I would be able to afford to have harvested 39 Elk and more than that in Deer, slightly less Pronghorn. I know it is a blessing and uncommon.

The 20 to 30 somethings want an "experience" and they are no longer willing to put in the effort to learn to hunt. The number of road hunters has increased significantly in the areas I hunt. Used to just be the folks from Texas and California, but now it is even residents.

America has magnumitus bad. Big bores have been replaced with super fast, smaller diameter cartridges. I'm seeing more game wounded, and not tracked and collected, than before as a result. I've helped game wardens drag several dead animals out of the woods, some that only went a few hundred yards, but the slob hunters did not check their shots.

Sadly, it might just be a harbinger of things to come.

 

[deadcoyote]

I live in rural Northern California. Similar but not the same I am amazed at the number of guys I encounter on public land hunting black tail deer with .338 win mag. I think there must be sales guy around here who promotes it. For those unfamiliar black tails are pretty scrubby little deer. They’re good eating but smaller than mule deer and white tail.

 

[stagpanther]

America has magnumitus bad. Big bores have been replaced with super fast, smaller diameter cartridges. I'm seeing more game wounded, and not tracked and collected, than before as a result. I've helped game wardens drag several dead animals out of the woods, some that only went a few hundred yards, but the slob hunters did not check their shots.

I'm not sure I'm following you correctly--are you saying too many people are using inappropriately large calibers, resulting in animals not being hit appropriately and getting away--or are they using inappropriately small high velocity cartridges and not bringing enough gun to the hunt?

 

[Paul B.]

"Why not? Keep in mind a box of factory ammo can easily cost $100 to $200+ for the the big thumpers; so choose carefully with reloading in mind (unless you're rich and who cares )"

I snagged 12 boxes of Federal brand .416 Rigby ammo for $40 a box. Got them at an estate sale of all things. I'd recently bought a Ruger #1 in the Rigby round and it came with a couple of boxes of ammo plus dies and shell holder. Six boxes were softs and six solids. Guess I should be able to handle and T-rex that should happen to invade my yard.
Prior to getting that deal I'd box two boxes of factory ammo so I could shoot the rifle; $215 each.

A years or so later I snagged one of the uncommon Ruger #1s in .404 Jeffery. Came with a little ammo, dies and shell holder. Nobody in town has any ammo for it so it's been strictly a reloading proposition.

I've had a Ruger #1 in .375 H&H for probably 20 or more years. Frankly, I don't remember when I bought it but it's a lot of fun running 270 gr. cast bullets at about 2100 FPS.

I've always enjoyed shooting the really big boomers but common sense has been taking hold of me. As mush as I enjoy shooting those rifles, at 85 years old the threat of a detached retina or worse is probably something I need to consider.
Paul B.

 

[stagpanther]

I've always enjoyed shooting the really big boomers but common sense has been taking hold of me. As mush as I enjoy shooting those rifles, at 85 years old the threat of a detached retina or worse is probably something I need to consider.

Wow! My hat's off to you sir! I have to admit I get toothaches and a mild headache sometimes if I shoot 10 really big ones (that's an expensive day right there); I worry more about concussive report than felt recoil.

 

[natman]

Then there's always that guy.........

This spring, while scouting for spring turkeys, I parked the old Bronco at a spot that gets a lot of use during deer season. When I stepped out and looked down, there laid a big, straight walled, belted brass case, what the heck......
dang Win .458 mag!: Somebody took their elephant gun deer hunting!!

I did that a couple of times. I used a Hornady 350 grain RN and a well-less than maximum charge, roughly equivalent to a warm 45-70 load. It kicked, but a LOT less than a full house 500 grain load. Took a pig and a buck who were both DRT.

I finally got tired of lugging a 9+lb rifle around for game I could just as well take with a 6 lb 308, so I stopped.

 

[natman]

I've had a Ruger #1 in .375 H&H for probably 20 or more years. Frankly, I don't remember when I bought it but it's a lot of fun running 270 gr. cast bullets at about 2100 FPS.

It has to be more fun that running full power 375 loads through it. I had a #1 in 375. I tried both 300 and 270 loads through it. I don't know if it's a question of weight, stock design or what, but recoil was more unpleasant than even my 458. The 458 kicks more but it's a slow push - OK, a BIG slow push - but you can roll with it. The 375 is big AND fast, and there's nothing you can do but take it. The gun soon found a new home.

 

[Drm50]

I’ve sold most of my big game rifles. Don’t have any magnums now. It’s funny that the only rifle I’ve sold that I regret in a Sako 375H&H that I bought new in 1968. I went to a going out of business sale shopping for a long range bear gun. Wanted 7mm-30cal magnum, long barrel. Nothing in that class left. The owner sold me the 375 with 3 boxes of ammo for $200. Was just going to have a 300 barrel chambered for H&H put on it. In meantime shot the rifle and was impressed with accuracy. I opted to buy 375 dies and load for it. 375H&H would bail a 300gr bullet about same as 30/06 with a 150. I did end up using Speer 235gr as my standard load. Shot a moose with 270gr Win. Silver-tip and it went down like a truck ran over it. Shot several deer with the 235gr Speers. No much different results as most common deer cartridges. Maybe less, no problem killing but not as much meat damage as HV rifle with soft point ammo. I’ve seen game shot with the small bore magnums that were ruined.

 

[Nathan]

Currently there is a Win 70 catalogued in 458 Win Mag for reasonable money. I had a guy run a 458 Lott reamer in it and rework it for Safari.It is a great, but basic wood Safari rifle under $2000 or so. 458 Lott brass and bullets are expensive, but so much cheaper than anything else Safari!

 

[darkgael]

I developed a “plinker” load for my .375 H&H. It uses a 200 grain Sierra bullet at about 3000fps. Great fun to shoot.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I have shot the .460 Weatherby, along with a lot of the traditional dangerous game rounds.

The .460 definitely has a LOT of shove to it. It wasn't particularly pleasant, but it wasn't terrible.

It wasn't even as bad as one .338 Winchester rifle I fired. That rifle was too light, and it didn't recoil, it out and out sucker punched you when you weren't expecting it.

That's the problem with most .338s - the rifles they're chambered in are simply too light. The round should be chambered in rifles in the .375 H&H weight class.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I snagged 12 boxes of Federal brand .416 Rigby ammo for $40 a box."

Holy crap, that's like finding a Smith & Wesson Triple Lock or a Colt Gold Cup at a yard sale for $100... The deal of a life time.

 

[Nathan]

"I snagged 12 boxes of Federal brand .416 Rigby ammo for $40 a box."

Holy crap, that's like finding a Smith & Wesson Triple Lock or a Colt Gold Cup at a yard sale for $100... The deal of a life time.

Damn. I would feel a little dirty after a deal like that!������

 

[Paul B.]

"It has to be more fun that running full power 375 loads through it. I had a #1 in 375. I tried both 300 and 270 loads through it. I don't know if it's a question of weight, stock design or what, but recoil was more unpleasant than even my 458. The 458 kicks more but it's a slow push - OK, a BIG slow push - but you can roll with it. The 375 is big AND fast, and there's nothing you can do but take it. The gun soon found a new home."

Nat, the big problem with recoil in a Ruger #1 is the width of the butt and that skinny thing Ruger calls a recoil pad are the problem. I don't find the #1 .375 H&H recoil to be much of a problem especially with my cast bullet handload. (RCBS #37-250-FN over IIRC 53.0 gr.H4350) Recoil is more like a stout 30-06 load. Also, one can invest in a Past recoil pad which fits like a shoulder holder and goes a long way toward dampening recoil.
Paul B.

 

[Red Devil]

OK, I'll offer this: 9.3x62 is a nice round, actually useful in North America, but it's not really a "big boy"...

Don Heath - had a different opinion of the 9.3x62mm.

Red

 

[HiBC]

I'm not sure I'm following you correctly--are you saying too many people are using inappropriately large calibers, resulting in animals not being hit appropriately and getting away--or are they using inappropriately small high velocity cartridges and not bringing enough gun to the hunt?

Its not "Either Or" Both conditions are tough on the game animal.

We want a quick,merciful kill.

Now, I'm making no claim as far as numbers. I do not claim "Most hunters"

I'll say "Some or A Few"

If you get down on the bench with "The Hammer of Thor" and you cannot take a mental picture of the crosshairs in target at recoil, its because your eyes are closed. You are flinching. Its not a character flaw. Its your body taking care of itself.

But it certainly has an effect in shot placement. A well placed shot with a more modest cartridge will kill dead. Dead is dead.
Without debating any "minimum cartridge" idea, most people can manage a 7mm-08 class cartridge and most North American big game requires nothing more.
Many of us have witnessed "sight in day" at a public range. Its not unusual the .300 Magnum and up guys shoot groups bigger than their hand at 100 yds. They would shoot better with a .257 Roberts.
My first choice in most cases is my 257 AI

I enjoy shooting my .375 Chatfield-Taylor. (Necked down .458). Its fine to hunt with 4000+ ft lbs if you want to so long as you can place your shot.

Then there is the other extreme. The guy who wants a pic with his 5 year old Daughter and her first buck. He sets her up with a 22 Hornet. Well,maybe. Its been done. The Hornet is not "sure fire enough deer gun " for anyone.(IMO) I would not want to put a 6 year old through a wounded animal.

Then there is the "Stunt hunter" who will shoot a moose with a 17 HMR just for the "I dunnit" claim.

Whatever. Give the animal a quick kill. Do that,and I dont care what you shoot. Just don't choose stupid. The critter pays for it.

 

[stagpanther]

Sounds like, in other words, know the limits--all of them.