New to Bow Hunting.

[Kimber84]

Dont be jealous or spiteful of my beliefs, I dont care about yours.

All I want is to be in the woods and not be bothered, I am just as happy with or without a kill...

Hardly jealous or spiteful, just tired of hunters acting like their way is better or more legit than the next guys, just cause that's the way they do it.

All anyone wants is to not be bothered in the woods, let alone chastised for using different equipment, or made to feel that their methods are somehow inferior.

Trad guys do it to the compound guys, compound guys do it to the crossbow guys... "Bowhunters" in general do it to the gun guys... It never ends...


Sorry, its just annoying and pathetic all at the same time.

 

[BuckRub]

My way is the best for me and I'm sure your way is the best for you that's why we do it that way. Yes we should stick together as hunters and don't care to try to criticize others ways. You can tell me the latest and best way, I don't care I'm still doing the way I like.

 

[old roper]

I hate to get in this but up hunting this year we made friends with couple of Traditional archers that were camped close to use and both very active in Colorado Bowhunters ASSN in the youth program.

One hunted little more in the back country and he passed on shot that were out of range but wouldn't be a problem for me. I had lot of respect for him knowing his range and not taking the shot and he made his own and bows/arrows and I think he made his own strings too.

No way in the world would I build a bow/arrow just not my cup of tea.

 

[doofus47]

As a bad generalization, things got ridiculously easier from 2009 on. A lot of makers added cams that were adjustable for draw length with out changing the entire cam module. A lot of the other technology seems to have been optimized around then as well. You could probably find a very nicely equipped used bow for 500. I'd start in the 5-600 range and see what you like in the new or consignment racks at your local shop.

There's a website called http://compoundbowchoice.com/tools/comparator/
that gives you a lot to think about with recent compound choices.

My buddy and I went elk hunting via archery this fall. I took my elite pulse. He went with his traditional recurve. He saw elk all day long. I saw moose all day long. However, all of his elk were at 35 yards plus, AKA "out of range." So, it's still hunting.

Traditional archery is "cleaner" for sure; and in many ways it's easier also, but when you have a 5x5 standing 40 yards away across a clearing, you might find yourself wishing you had your big boy bow.

Poundage is like "magnum." Everyone thinks bigger is better, but accuracy is still king. If you can put all your arrows into a 4" circle at 40 yards with a 50 lb bow, you'll be fine on a hunt. For a bow, you want nice long valley so you can hold your drawn arrow for some time until you are sure of your target. A bow that wants to jump out of your hand as soon as you draw it back is a bit wearisome.

Now is an odd time to be looking for deals. On one hand, a lot of people are buying bows for this season. On the other, the new bow season models are beginning to come out, so shops are making deals on 2013 bows. Going to a shop might be a good idea. You can find great built bows used on ebay, craigslist, etc in the spring and summer.

Make friends with your local archery shop guys. They are usually evangelists and will talk your ear off giving advice to "the new guy."

edit:
oh, and crossbows are only used in rifle season here in colorado. fyi

 

[g.willikers]

Whew, and I thought that revolver or auto, or Glock vs 1911, were touchy subjects.
I like and use both compounds and traditional equipment.
Can't hurt to be competent with everything.
There's a fellow in the local archery club that occasionally uses a home made bow of pvc tubing.
He's mighty impressive with it, too.
Is it the bow or the archer that really matters?

 

[myfriendis410]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is noise. Whatever bow you go with; pick the one that delivers it's shot with minimum noise. Beaver balls on a recurve or a good parallel limb compound will make a huge difference once the shot is let go.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Noise is a problem in theory but it does not translate to the real world with modern (compound) equipment. Modern bows are so fast and so quiet that it is no longer a concern. The loudest are quieter than the quietest from a 10 or 15 years ago and the arrow is getting there twice as fast. The sound still gets there first, both from the bow and the arrow in the air, but what matters is whether or not the unalerted animal has time to react, and they don't. You shouldn't be shooting at an alerted animal with archery equipment of any kind.

 

[myfriendis410]

There are deer species that are in condition 1 at all times. Maybe individuals within a given population. Coues whitetail can jump the string by 6 feet for a 20 yard shot. California blacktails are just as jumpy.

I stand by a quiet bow. If you've ever been in your stand, nice and quiet and you cut loose--your bow goes "Ka-Tank!" and I pretty much guarantee the animal will react. Had it happen early on in my archery hunting journey. Get a quiet bow.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I'm not arguing that a quiet bow isn't important, it is, but virtually all modern bows are quieter than needed. You'd have to be buying a 10 year old bow for it to matter.

I do not buy, and have done extensive research on the matter, that an unalerted animal can "jump the string" with most any modern bow. There simply isn't time. There is almost always less than 0.25 seconds from release to impact at 20 yards with a modern bow, as little as 0.15 with really fast bows. The difference between the sound's arrival and the arrow is about 0.05 seconds less. That gives an animal between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds to react. That's to START motion. Even if you figure only 0.10 for reaction time, how far can the animal move from a dead stop in AT BEST another 0.10 seconds? That's nearly best case (for the animal). With a really fast bow, the arrow is there before the animal could possibly even BEGIN to move, say nothing of moving far enough to make a good shot into a bad one. In almost all cases, the arrow is in the ground on the other side before the animal reacts.

 

[TMW89]

I do believe that a deer could react to the sound of the shot, but not by much.
Even if the animal just flinches, that could be enough to cause a miss or a poorly placed arrow for sure.

Although, in the dead quiet deer woods, the slightest noise sounds like the whole woods is coming down to a deer. So I spent a little money to make it quieter, but not very much ($20) because it won't make that much of a difference.

I only bought those limbsaver stick on dampeners. The ones that look like little mushrooms. They do actually make a difference in noise.

 

[BuckRub]

I've shot at deer 20 yards and my arrow usually is the the dirt completely pass thru by the time they react. But at 40-50 yards ? Even 30 yards I've had some deer completely jump the string. It does make a difference. Either stick to 20 yard shots or take 30-50 yard shots, shoot low and hope for the best.

 

[Kimber84]

I've got video of my buddy shooting a buck at 18 yards, when you put it on slow motion that deer drops almost 4 inches by the time that arrow hits him... How they move that fast is beyond me, luckily we were high enough that the arrow angled down and clipped both lungs.

I've shot a number of deer at 35-40 yards though and I've never seen them react the same way that one did... Maybe he has his guard up, who knows.

 

[myfriendis410]

Had a guy at our local pro shop a couple of years ago who had just come back from Arizona with a nice 10 point Coues deer. It was the 6th one he shot at. Every shot had been at 20 yards or less, totally oblivious to his presence and five times he shot six feet behind the deer. The sixth time he aimed six feet in front of the animal and 12-ringed him. They ARE that fast. I can't speak to whitetails 'cause I've never bowhunted them but I CAN talk about California Blacktails. They are very nearly as spooky as an adult buck weighs in around 125 lbs. and everything wants to eat 'em. They are on high alert most of the time.

I related watching an episode of Bowhunter TV that tried an experiment with a volunteer hiding behind a wall holding a deer sillhouette and listening for the shot of a compound bow at 20 yards. At the sound he was able to pull the sillhouette out of the arrow's path (forward) 80% of the time. It was quite illuminating.

My first bow was a lower end name brand less than ten years old (new when I bought it) and I had deer jump my string when I let go. Pigs, no. I upgraded to a high end bow (PSE X-Force) and haven't had to deal with string-jumping due to the low noise put out by that bow. You don't have to get a top-end bow to achieve noise reduction but most of the archers out here will tell you they would rather have quiet than fast. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

6 feet behind the deer? From 20 yards? So he missed his point of aim by 8-10 feet?

That'd be roughly an AVERAGE of 32fps or an average of 21.8mph from a dead stop with no warning.

That's WITHOUT ANY delay for even the time the sound takes to get there or ANY reaction time whatsoever.

They're not that fast. No way, no how. Completely nonsensical.

That's an AVERAGE acceleration rate of over 6g.

A cheetah can accelerate from 0-60mph in about 3 seconds. That's an average of about 5.5g.

Deer can accelerate faster than a cheetah? With no warning? Really?

Factoring in the time delay for the speed of sound and ANY reasonable reaction time, the deer would probably be accelerating at 15 or 20 Gs.

They'd break their freaking legs.

 

[g.willikers]

Would they have to be able to accelerate that fast, or just jump out of the way fast before taking off?
Deer can jump pretty good.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Jumping is accelerating. It doesn't matter what method they use to produce the speed. Acceleration is acceleration.

Anyone who thinks an animal can move that fast needs to do some math with some common sense assumptions.

I related watching an episode of Bowhunter TV that tried an experiment with a volunteer hiding behind a wall holding a deer sillhouette and listening for the shot of a compound bow at 20 yards. At the sound he was able to pull the sillhouette out of the arrow's path (forward) 80% of the time. It was quite illuminating.

This is a different matter all together. Reacting to an EXPECTED, planned stimulus is completely different than reacting to an unexpected noise from no where. That's why don't shoot at alerted deer with a bow. Those people also only have to move a silhouette. What's it weigh? 2 pounds? Let's try giving them same time to dodge a paintball. Think they can do it? Nope. Not a chance.

 

[BuckRub]

I aint no big mathmetician but I have shot at some deer, apeared to be calm and eating at 10 yards and immediately they hunkered down and arrow went buzzing over them. It just makes me smile and say "thats hunting". I know theoredically they shouldnt be able to move that fast but some things will catch you off guard. Ive only been hunting for 40 years and havent experienced it all or seen it all yet.

 

[BJEoutdoors]

Martin makes a good bow for the money.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I aint no big mathmetician but I have shot at some deer, apeared to be calm and eating at 10 yards and immediately they hunkered down and arrow went buzzing over them. It just makes me smile and say "thats hunting". I know theoredically they shouldnt be able to move that fast but some things will catch you off guard. Ive only been hunting for 40 years and havent experienced it all or seen it all yet.

Simply put, there's something else happening. The math can't tell you what IS happening but it can reasonably eliminate what ISN'T happening.

There is no possible way that a deer can dodge an arrow at 10 yards. Take a look at the numbers above at 20 yards.

Let's do some math for 10. Even a relatively slow bow will get an arrow to 10 yards in under 0.20 seconds. The sound takes about 0.025 seconds to get there. If the deer takes 0.07 seconds to react, which would be almost miraculous from a relaxed state, it only has about 0.10 seconds to move. If you're aiming for the middle of the deer, it has to move at least 9 inches or so for the arrow to go over it's back. 9" in 0.10 seconds is 450 feet per minute, 27,000 feet per hour, 5.11mph.

That doesn't sound so fast, right? Well, how does a deer move down? Gravity, right? It can't JUMP downward it can only fall. How far and how fast will gravity move an object in 0.10 seconds? 1.93" After falling for 0.10 seconds, an object is only traveling 2.19mph, less than 1/2 the FINAL speed that would have to be AVERAGE speed for the arrow to miss.

That's very nearly the BEST CASE scenario for the deer, including the notion of complete and total free-fall which is more than a stretch just by itself.

Now, I have no doubt that you (and in fact I) have somehow managed to miss and/or shoot over the back of deer at impossibly close distances. It happens. Maybe the deer moves for some other reason before we recognize and can stop the firing, it happens so fast we don't process it. Maybe that's why. Maybe we just screw up. Maybe the shot goes over the deer because we screwed it up and we see the dodging deer and figure it "dodged" the arrow?

I don't know. I only know that they can not possibly dodge arrows the way the internet myth says they do.

 

[Grizz12]

I've seen slow-motion video and the deer do drop and drop fast when they hear or sense something is not right. It looks like they are pulling themselves down.