New to Bow Hunting.
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Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Not to many years ago I shot a bow. 70# Browning Mirage w/ 4" over draw. I tweaked it to 64-lbs of draw weight which I could handle shot after shot. Mongoose 2-pin sight with a string peep. I shot 28" 2213s with carbon inserts 3" 3-feathered Easton XX 75 aluminum shafts. 100 gr. razor sharp NAP 3-blade Thunderhead broadheads were my slicing choice. The deer I harvested with my bow. I never had to go beyond 10 ft from where the deer was hit to retrieve the animal. Instant killer. _"Brown was down!!"
Could have sold my Mirage a few times but didn't. I still have my Mirage as a matter of fact.
Now a-days you no longer need a Over Draw as the bow cams are so fast and their newer designed riser's and limbs are made for speed Bud. If I were starting out my suggestion would be: Buy a Mathews Z7 Magnum. No doubt about it. But there is a problem guy. Mathew bows are indeed spendy. But its to be expected as you would be buying the best Name bow in the business IMHO. Yes, it is all about speed and poundage you can pull and handle Sir. If it weren't. The bow manufactures wouldn't make faster and faster bows with large draw weights available like (70 pounders) to get to those high end speeds. If you intend to challenge yourself with the use of a bow. Its all about target practice and more practice. Visually knowing yardage/distance to your game is a necessity in this sport. But you must also know your limits when it comes to your shooting capabilities also. As I was told once. If you have to take aim at the rising late afternoon moon to get your arrow on target at 30-yards. You Sir are under bowed._
Could have sold my Mirage a few times but didn't. I still have my Mirage as a matter of fact.
Now a-days you no longer need a Over Draw as the bow cams are so fast and their newer designed riser's and limbs are made for speed Bud. If I were starting out my suggestion would be: Buy a Mathews Z7 Magnum. No doubt about it. But there is a problem guy. Mathew bows are indeed spendy. But its to be expected as you would be buying the best Name bow in the business IMHO. Yes, it is all about speed and poundage you can pull and handle Sir. If it weren't. The bow manufactures wouldn't make faster and faster bows with large draw weights available like (70 pounders) to get to those high end speeds. If you intend to challenge yourself with the use of a bow. Its all about target practice and more practice. Visually knowing yardage/distance to your game is a necessity in this sport. But you must also know your limits when it comes to your shooting capabilities also. As I was told once. If you have to take aim at the rising late afternoon moon to get your arrow on target at 30-yards. You Sir are under bowed._
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Pawn shops or friends who may want to sell. Alot of archery only shops sell used bows. Walmart or Academy if they have them there sell bear bows for about $200.00. Ted nugent shoots deer all the time with a 40 or 45 pull weight. Most always pass completely thru. Along time (20) years ago I use to shoot 70#. After years I started shooting 60 and 60 I could shoot faster because it thru me into a different arrow bracket for the arrows I shot. 95% of my deer go completely thru. It's where you hit them that matters everything. A good hit a deer will run about 45 yards and drop. A bad hit a deer will run to the next state. If you don't have a perfect shot don't shoot.
03Shadowbob
New member
I wouldn't buy a bow that has everything on it as a package. The accessories are garbage and you will soon change them out. Buy a bare bow and put it together the way you want
QuarterHorse
New member
I own a Bear bow, however not the "entry level" price point but a 2013 Motive 6. That being said last year I told myself if I downed a deer with my worn out 10+ year old PSE Nova that I'd get myself a new one.
My point is the deer I shot this year with a bow that shoots 60+fps faster than my old bow last year has the same result, a dead deer.
The difference is I can hold 74lbs on my new bow a LOT longer due to a LOT higher let off and a LOT deeper valley vs 70lbs on my old bow. Solid stops, lighter package, lots of things make the new one nicer, but obviously aren't required.
When you're bow hunting, half of the fun is getting the game close to you so you don't HAVE to make the long shot. However, I'm confident in the long shot with nicer equipment if needed.
Here's an "old" and "new" pic. My PSE Nova on the left and Bear Motive 6 on the right.
Here's a stand alone of my Motive 6
My point is the deer I shot this year with a bow that shoots 60+fps faster than my old bow last year has the same result, a dead deer.
The difference is I can hold 74lbs on my new bow a LOT longer due to a LOT higher let off and a LOT deeper valley vs 70lbs on my old bow. Solid stops, lighter package, lots of things make the new one nicer, but obviously aren't required.
When you're bow hunting, half of the fun is getting the game close to you so you don't HAVE to make the long shot. However, I'm confident in the long shot with nicer equipment if needed.
Here's an "old" and "new" pic. My PSE Nova on the left and Bear Motive 6 on the right.
Here's a stand alone of my Motive 6
Why would anyone need to adjust the draw length 2 to 3 inches? Small adjustments of the draw length of a Mathews bow can be made with string and cable twisting (within limits, of course). The installation of a peep sight will change the draw length a very small amount and will require changing the string twisting to assure the peep sight is properly positioned at full draw.
Most choices concerning bow "accessories" for hunting are a function of cost and personal preference, e.g. glove, tab, wrist strap release, hand held release; broadheads; feathers or vanes; bow sights; peep sights; fixed or detachable quiver; string loop; string and cable material; stabilizer; etc.
Purchasing a new or used bow is a matter of choice, availability, price, personal finance, preference and intended use.
I have an Apple Archery bow press and have used it to change strings and cables, peep sights, cam and idler lean, string and cable twists, serving, etc. on my bows and those of a couple of friends.
Most choices concerning bow "accessories" for hunting are a function of cost and personal preference, e.g. glove, tab, wrist strap release, hand held release; broadheads; feathers or vanes; bow sights; peep sights; fixed or detachable quiver; string loop; string and cable material; stabilizer; etc.
Purchasing a new or used bow is a matter of choice, availability, price, personal finance, preference and intended use.
I have an Apple Archery bow press and have used it to change strings and cables, peep sights, cam and idler lean, string and cable twists, serving, etc. on my bows and those of a couple of friends.
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Most when starting out like a compound or crossbow because of simplicity to shoot an animal without tons of practice. My crossbow has a scope. Just pick which crosshair and squeez trigger and start skinning. My compound has a peep sight on string. Line up your peep with your sight pin, which one you need for each distance. I shoot with a release and sqeezing release and then start skinning. But I like everyone else. After killing about 20 deer I too went to a recurve. Adds more challenge and alot more satisfying. Slower but quietier and no gadgets to mess with. You'll figure what you like and when.
I knew nothing about archery but found good shop in town and I would suggest that if you can and price does vary big time. Archery shop also has indoor range and I use wrist trigger and like rifle triggers some are adjustable.
Good back tension isn't cheap a Carter $150 on up and target shooter just doesn't have one of them and good target bow new with sights/scope/lens,stabilizer,rest runs you well over $2k
I started 2011 got Mission Craze think it was $300. After shooting that a year moved up to the Hoyt Carbon Matrix for hunting and started shooting target with that bow also. Only difference between those two bow is the bells/whistles because you can put that same target site on that bow as match archery shooter uses, same rest buy the best match bow string for it etc.
When I got the Craze I didn't know if I'd like archery but I figure if I did I would buy good sights,rest that way I could put those on another bow which I did put those on the Matrix and I did upgrade the Craze bowstrings after 6mos shooting.
Well good luck
Good back tension isn't cheap a Carter $150 on up and target shooter just doesn't have one of them and good target bow new with sights/scope/lens,stabilizer,rest runs you well over $2k
I started 2011 got Mission Craze think it was $300. After shooting that a year moved up to the Hoyt Carbon Matrix for hunting and started shooting target with that bow also. Only difference between those two bow is the bells/whistles because you can put that same target site on that bow as match archery shooter uses, same rest buy the best match bow string for it etc.
When I got the Craze I didn't know if I'd like archery but I figure if I did I would buy good sights,rest that way I could put those on another bow which I did put those on the Matrix and I did upgrade the Craze bowstrings after 6mos shooting.
Well good luck
Having shot and hunted with both modern (compounds) and traditional (longbows & recurves) archery equipment my advice to you is get a longbow or recurve. I also owned a traditional archery business for a few years.
Here is why I suggest traditional equipment
1) Ease of use lightweight to carry around all day
- Compounds are much heavier and far more complicated to keep running with all the adjustments, pulleys, cams, trigger devices, sights, etc... If one screw comes loose everything is messed and you may spend hours trying to figure out why you cant hit the target.
- Traditional equipment consists of the bow, the string, quiver/arrows and a glove or tab. If you forget your finger protection in camp you can still shoot with bare fingers while hunting.
2) Start up and maintenance costs
- Modern equipment = multiple strings for one bow plus back up strings, string wax, sights, rests, trigger gadgets, kisser buttons, an endless list of bells and whistles
- Traditional equipment = bow, string and one extra string, string wax. (you can add sights but most people go back to instinctive shooting w/o sights
3) Bells and whistles
- Go into any archery shop and you will see isles and isles filled with all kinds of bells and whistles to "improve" your shooting ability using a compound bow or cross bow
- With tradition equipment, if you are not hitting the target, 99% of the time it is your own fault because the equipment lists consists of a bow, a string and a glove or tab. Not much to go wrong.
4) shooting styles/forms
- Modern bows = very disciplined and strict in order to use all the bells and whistles
- Traditional bows = very relaxed and forgiving. Traditional archery equipment has been use on every section of dry land on this planet for hundreds of thousands of years and every tribe or group of people had their own shooting style (split finger, Apache style, pinch finger, thumb, two below, three below, arrow on either side of the string, etc...) and every one of these styles (plus countless others) worked because the shooters took time to learn and master them. My point is you do whatever work FOR YOU! As long as you are hitting the target it doesn't matter what your form looks like
This following statement is purely an observation based on years of playing with both types of bows
- People shooting modern equipment are up tight and always in a hurry to get someplace and stressed out over something
- People shooting traditional are, in general, a nicer, more friendly group of guys and gals out to have fun with the equipment, family and friends.
I may have some traditional books just collecting dust if you want to PM me.
Here is why I suggest traditional equipment
1) Ease of use lightweight to carry around all day
- Compounds are much heavier and far more complicated to keep running with all the adjustments, pulleys, cams, trigger devices, sights, etc... If one screw comes loose everything is messed and you may spend hours trying to figure out why you cant hit the target.
- Traditional equipment consists of the bow, the string, quiver/arrows and a glove or tab. If you forget your finger protection in camp you can still shoot with bare fingers while hunting.
2) Start up and maintenance costs
- Modern equipment = multiple strings for one bow plus back up strings, string wax, sights, rests, trigger gadgets, kisser buttons, an endless list of bells and whistles
- Traditional equipment = bow, string and one extra string, string wax. (you can add sights but most people go back to instinctive shooting w/o sights
3) Bells and whistles
- Go into any archery shop and you will see isles and isles filled with all kinds of bells and whistles to "improve" your shooting ability using a compound bow or cross bow
- With tradition equipment, if you are not hitting the target, 99% of the time it is your own fault because the equipment lists consists of a bow, a string and a glove or tab. Not much to go wrong.
4) shooting styles/forms
- Modern bows = very disciplined and strict in order to use all the bells and whistles
- Traditional bows = very relaxed and forgiving. Traditional archery equipment has been use on every section of dry land on this planet for hundreds of thousands of years and every tribe or group of people had their own shooting style (split finger, Apache style, pinch finger, thumb, two below, three below, arrow on either side of the string, etc...) and every one of these styles (plus countless others) worked because the shooters took time to learn and master them. My point is you do whatever work FOR YOU! As long as you are hitting the target it doesn't matter what your form looks like
This following statement is purely an observation based on years of playing with both types of bows
- People shooting modern equipment are up tight and always in a hurry to get someplace and stressed out over something
- People shooting traditional are, in general, a nicer, more friendly group of guys and gals out to have fun with the equipment, family and friends.
I may have some traditional books just collecting dust if you want to PM me.
I dunno, I've met a lot of crabby trad guys that think I'm out to ruin "their" entire deer season cause my compound bow is in the woods.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Traditional archers tend to be very much of the same attitude as traditional muzzle loader shooters. Every one else is doing it wrong and has no skill.
The theoretical disadvantages of modern equipment are like a ghosts. Somebody always believes in them but they never materialize.
I've had exactly one equipment failure in over 20 years of bow hunting. I've never had to tune a bow, never had a broken string or cable, never had a "screw come loose".
Long bow and recurves are so awesome, that's why everybody kept using them when compounds came out... right?
Traditional equipment is extremely difficult to use well. Most shooters will never shoot as well at 10 as they could at 30, even 40, with a compound.
Traditional equipment is for extremely dedicated shooters and entirely inappropriate for most shooters. Most will never put in the time and effort that is required to shoot a deer at even 10 yards with a traditional bow, say nothing of 15,20,25 yards.
Take a peak at competition groups for both styles. Those are the best, most dedicated shooters of both styles. Tell me how the groups compare between the two. Then tell me you can't find a "weekend warrior" with a compound that can't outshoot (or very nearly) the best longbow shooters in that competition.
The only way I'd start an average, new hunter on a traditional bow would be if I wanted them frustrated and giving up the sport.
The theoretical disadvantages of modern equipment are like a ghosts. Somebody always believes in them but they never materialize.
I've had exactly one equipment failure in over 20 years of bow hunting. I've never had to tune a bow, never had a broken string or cable, never had a "screw come loose".
Long bow and recurves are so awesome, that's why everybody kept using them when compounds came out... right?
Traditional equipment is extremely difficult to use well. Most shooters will never shoot as well at 10 as they could at 30, even 40, with a compound.
Traditional equipment is for extremely dedicated shooters and entirely inappropriate for most shooters. Most will never put in the time and effort that is required to shoot a deer at even 10 yards with a traditional bow, say nothing of 15,20,25 yards.
Take a peak at competition groups for both styles. Those are the best, most dedicated shooters of both styles. Tell me how the groups compare between the two. Then tell me you can't find a "weekend warrior" with a compound that can't outshoot (or very nearly) the best longbow shooters in that competition.
The only way I'd start an average, new hunter on a traditional bow would be if I wanted them frustrated and giving up the sport.
In the 3-d shoots I sponsored everything was set up to reflect real life shooting experiences such as up/down hill, bending in awkward positions, shoot/dont shoot decisions, in other words, positions that forced the bow and shooter to be in a other than vertical position.
Your right, using traditional equipment requires more practice and dedication, its not for everyone. Although most how start out trad and then go to modern usually come back to trad due to the lower cost and simplicity of the set-up.
I was already out of modern equipment when you started, so I have no doubt that things have improved over the years. A quick search will show thousands of bells and whistles to add onto a compound bow and thats cool for those who like to play with gadgets.
I enjoy shooting, building bows and arrows, hunting with hand made equipment and sharing that time with like minded people.
Although the success rate is very close if not the same with each set of weapons, Trad guys are into the "hunt" while most modern guys are into the "kill" and antler count. And yes, most trad guys will pass on shots past 20 yards
Read Fred Bear, Glen St Charles, Jay Massey, Howard hill, E. Don Thomas, Saxton Pope (just to name a few) to get a better idea of where I am coming from.
Your right, using traditional equipment requires more practice and dedication, its not for everyone. Although most how start out trad and then go to modern usually come back to trad due to the lower cost and simplicity of the set-up.
I was already out of modern equipment when you started, so I have no doubt that things have improved over the years. A quick search will show thousands of bells and whistles to add onto a compound bow and thats cool for those who like to play with gadgets.
I enjoy shooting, building bows and arrows, hunting with hand made equipment and sharing that time with like minded people.
Although the success rate is very close if not the same with each set of weapons, Trad guys are into the "hunt" while most modern guys are into the "kill" and antler count. And yes, most trad guys will pass on shots past 20 yards
Read Fred Bear, Glen St Charles, Jay Massey, Howard hill, E. Don Thomas, Saxton Pope (just to name a few) to get a better idea of where I am coming from.
Its this attitude/assumption that I'm directly referring to... It's the same with a lot of guys I've met, really irks me that people can't just hunt for themselves and quit assuming other ppl have ulterior motives. I couldn't care less if you hunt for blood, antlers, meat or whatever. So long as its legal I say go for it.
Sorry for derailing your thread, but hunters are some of the most jealous, envious and spiteful people I've ever been around. The "us against them" mentality of the hunting community will be its demise.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I've never seen any official stats on this but I'd bet my house it isn't true on average.
For example, I have a friend who's been in competitive archery since the 1970s. First he shot long bows and recurves then the same with "clickers" then he went to compounds and fingers with "clickers" then compounds and back-tension releases. He's been a national level competitor for 40 years.
His description of long bow hunting is "Most of the time, we were thrilled to have an arrow with hair on it, say nothing of making a kill, say nothing of a "clean" kill. If somebody killed one, it was practically a celebration of a life event."
Now, I have no doubt (none) that there are places where there are so many more deer than there were here, then, that the traditional archers get a fair number of deer. However, just the mere fact that the reasonable ranges are at least double and quite probably triple or more tells me that the success rates can not possibly be remotely close.
Look at it like this. If you have an effective range of 15 yards, you've got 707sq.yards in your effective range. If you have an effective range of 30 yards, you've got 2,827sq.yards in your effective range. All else being equal, just by those numbers alone, you're going to have 4 times as many deer in range. Add in the indisputable fact that an average shooter of both disciplines will shoot much smaller groups at any distance with a compound than a traditional bow and the success numbers go up farther. Even if it's 20 versus 30, you've got more than twice as many deer in range.
My friend is a perfect example. He once told me that he took "a few" deer with a traditional bow. I'll have to ask him the exact number. He just last year made it his 25th consecutive year with at least one deer with his compound. 2 years ago he got 3. I won't be the least surprised if those 3 were as many as he got total with a traditional bow. Remember, he was a national level competitor and hard-core hunter with a traditional bow.