New Hi-Power

Cascade1911

New member
Let's think about this....

Sure, I'd like a stainless Hi-Power. But a Ruger would surely have an investment cast frame. As much as Ruger has elevated and perfected the art of investment casting, I still prefer, on principle, a forged frame.

1) Ewww, Ruger uses investment cast frames and we all know how weak Rugers are.........Oh wait, I think "Tank" is the most referenced word when speaking of Ruger.

2) Love them or hate them I think everyone will agree that Glock makes a good strong reliable firearm. What is their frame made of?

3) While forging can give better properties in a part it also has limitations that investment castings don't have. (You can't forge undercuts etc.).

I think Ruger has PROVED that they can cast a frame as good and in most cases better than a forged frame.
 

RickB

New member
The frames designed by Ruger are designed to be cast. That is, they can build-in whatever dimensions and materials they want to suit the purpose. Rendering as a casting, a gun that was designed to be made via a different process might not be as successful. There have been many, many cast 1911s made, more or less successfully by many makers, and if anybody can make a good cast 1911 frame I'd expect it to be Ruger, but Ruger's reputation for strength is based on making massive, blocky guns intended to be cast, rather than rendering forged gun designs as castings.
 

Cascade1911

New member
mmmm...yeah, and polymer?.....Maybe we might be over-thinking the whole frame thing.

Don't get me wrong, I believe plastic should be limited to grips (and wood is preferred) and for full discloser I work in a foundry so I am biased.

Even working in a foundry I would have agreed that a forged frame would be superior to a cast frame until the advent of the plastic frames. Made me think about what exactly is needed in a frame. No, actually I can make a lighter frame with material where it is needed as a casting. How about Kahr? They are known for their heavy blocky frames, no?
 

bigghoss

New member
I'd love to see more hi-powers. especially with an extended beaver tail like I see on some of the custom jobs. they just look so cool like that. another thing I'd like is for the frame to come drilled and taped for a removable light rail. and yeah, no mag disconnect. I hate those.
 

HisSoldier

New member
I bought a 1961 HP recently and am pretty unimpressed with it. Far worse accuracy than any of my 1911's, and the cartridge is Europe's idea of adequate, not mine. The firing system is complicated and makes JMB's design of the 1911 seem like pure genius by comparison, which of course, it is!
 

Smaug

New member
Look for a used Charles Daly

Mine was $350 new at Gander Mountain a couple years ago.

The Hogue grips are as ugly as ever, but they feel so good, I just don't care. The factory grips were Uncle Mike's hard rubber. To me, it's either got to be Hogue rubber or wood that is pretty.
HiPowerHogue800_1.jpg


HiPowerHogue800_2.jpg


XS Sights: (good for combat, not good for grouping)
IMGP3072s.jpg


IMGP3078s.jpg


IMGP3079s.jpg


Here are a couple of nice lady cops I met in Belgium who were carrying Hi-Powers:
IMGP2996.jpg



The trick is to not be a brand snob. Don't insist on Browning brand. The only difference is how much shine the finish has to it.

I agree though, it is a nicer gun than a 1911. The only reason it doesn't sell as well is because it is a 9mm platform, and we tend to like 45 better. Hi-Powers were made in 40, but it's just not the same.
 

HorseSoldier

New member
A new Browning HP costs nearly $900 and has the same cast frame a Ruger would likely have, if it were ever to be made, and the Ruger would presumably cost far less.

Like the 1911, the High Power is pre-WW2 technology and simply requires more work, and more skilled labor, than goes into putting together a Glock slide with a frame built by some minimum wage Austrian drone pressing the start button on an injection molding machine (nothing against Glocks -- same/same for modern HKs, SW M&Ps, etc etc etc).

For the last long time you've been paying for Belgian laborers to build the parts and (cheaper) Portuguese laborers to assemble the thing. I don't see Ruger, assuming they stay true to the design, being able to pull it off for much less money using American labor.

Now, Springfield "An Imported American Tradition Since 1974" Armory could maybe work a deal with FM in Argentina like the one they have with IMBEL in Brazil for "their" 1911s and bring in new production built at South American labor prices and better distribution than the FMs currently get a less expensive quality product. Maybe they could even get FM to drop their production streamlining "improvements" and do real upgrades to the basic design (optional tritium Novaks or similar, return to the ring hammer design, improve the safety and hey, while we're dreaming, throw on a light rail too) in ways that FN Herstal just isn't interested in pursuing.

But frankly I still don't even see that being a money making proposition. The High Power is a niche gun unlike the 1911 -- John Wayne and John Dillinger never carried one. Five or six generations of GIs, including the millions who served in WW2 never handled it. The paid hacks and whores who write for the gun rags don't get all tingly in their naughty parts about High Powers the way they do every time Kimber, Springfield, or whoever roll out some "new" 1911 that's the last model with new hand grips on it, etc. Now I like 1911s (own two of them), even if I have zero respect for most gun magazine writers who endlessly flog myths and half-truths about the design on a monthly basis, and they're interesting in that they're this fascinating phenomena -- given price points that make them everything from an "everyman's gun" right on through to the ultimate gun snob's gun, depending on the source. It's kind of like if Kia, Ford, Toyota, Porsche and Lamborghini all made their version of the Ford Taurus or something.

But the High Power is something different. Aside from the 40 cal version and some modest tweaks to production through the years, it kind of still is what it is and what it always has been -- and here in the US that means a niche gun for a certain fan base. "An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age," as they say.

And, as others have noted, the real deal, FN roll marked pistols (or the Browning rollmarked marketing silliness) aren't that expensive -- stack them up against 1911s, a similarly labor and metal intensive pistol, and they price about right about where they should be expected to be. The only catch is you don't get much choice on details compared to the slew of 1911s out there and if you want to fine tune a High Power as a fighting gun -- well, then you're looking at gunsmithing and turning your production-1911 priced base gun into a custom-1911 priced fighting gun (or so -- my Cylinder and Slide reworked High Power was, all told, about 2/3rds what my Wilson 1911s each cost).
 
Last edited:

Smaug

New member
I think Horsesoldier is right

Charles Daly apparently didn't do too well with them, evidenced by the fact that they no longer make them. They were US-made too. My wife picked this gun over the CZ-75 because the bigger (external) slide was easier for her to rack. This is her "big gun." I shoot it a lot more than she does though, hehehe.
 

BikerRN

New member
I'd love to see that, but would prefer it in .40 S&W, which FN has discontinued.

I don't think it would be a feasible option however for Ruger. Hi Power aficianados are a smaller group than those that like the 1911 here in the United States and while the rest of the world knows and recognizes the Hi Power, it's days are numbered I think.

Biker
 

Wildalaska

Moderator
The High Power is a niche gun unlike the 1911

I prefer to view it as a pistol for the sophisticated shooter who wants a cocked n locked single action double stack 9mm that fits virtually everyones hands, and is only slightly less accurate than a SIG 210 :)



WildiwouldnttrademinefortheworldAlaska ™©2002-2011
 

HorseSoldier

New member
I prefer to view it as a pistol for the sophisticated shooter who wants a cocked n locked single action double stack 9mm that fits virtually everyones hands, and is only slightly less accurate than a SIG 210

I agree, and am the same way about not trading or selling mine for anything (which, in the name of full disclosure, I should note came into Alaska by way of WWG and had some trigger work done there as well . . . :) )
 

Billy Shears

New member
Springfield "An Imported American Tradition Since 1974

:p

Now that right there is funny....and unfortunately also true.

You made me laugh there horsesoldier, but you also made some very thought provoking points about the good old P35.

Thanks.
 

salvadore

Moderator
I have a pre '62 FN on order that was listed as excellent condition. Hope that's true. owned a no finish military (Inglis?) Hi-power with the 'let's shoot down airplanes rear sight, and a Belgium fixed sighted shiney Browning from early 80s. Prettiest shooter I ever owned. Wished I'da kept them all.
 

Ringolevio

Moderator
Forged or cast?

I wrote:
Sure, I'd like a stainless Hi-Power. But a Ruger would surely have an investment cast frame. As much as Ruger has elevated and perfected the art of investment casting, I still prefer, on principle, a forged frame.

RickB responded:
All the HPs made by FN over the last fifteen years have cast frames. Apparently, the forged HP frame was pretty soft, so it could be easily machined, but it wasn't strong enough for the adaptation to .40 S&W, so the frame was redesigned as a cast part so it could be made stronger but with less machining.

threedogdad also responded:
All Hi-Powers made since at least 1994 have had cast frames. How would a Ruger be inferior in this respect?

Ah, but I don't have a Hi-Power, I have an FEG clone, which my trusted gunsmith assures me has a forged frame. I assure you that I don't know how to visually tell forged from cast, and I will defer to someone who has greater expertise as to the frame material of my FEG P-35.

After all, I said I prefer forged to cast "on principle". In the same way, I prefer all-steel guns to any "lightweight", "airweight" or "combat Tupperware". I reserve the right to be the foremost authority on my own preferences.
 
Last edited:

Quentin2

New member
...I have an FEG clone, which my trusted gunsmith assures me has a forged frame. I assure you that I don't know how to visually tell forged from cast, and I will defer to someone who has greater expertise as to the frame material of my FEG P-35...

My FEG HP clone has a forged frame and I'm almost certain that all FEGs did. My FM also has a forged frame.
 

WVsig

New member
Charles Daly apparently didn't do too well with them, evidenced by the fact that they no longer make them. They were US-made too. My wife picked this gun over the CZ-75 because the bigger (external) slide was easier for her to rack. This is her "big gun." I shoot it a lot more than she does though, hehehe.

Last time I checked Hungry was not in the US. LOL Feg made the CD HP clone.
 

sailskidrive

New member
Argentine????

>>Charles Daly apparently didn't do too well with them, evidenced by the fact that they no longer make them.

I thought Charles Daly and KBI went out of business sometime last year?

I thought the FEG guns were Argentine made on old FN licensed equipment. I didn't know they were from Hungary.
 

Servo

New member
I have both 1911s and Hi Powers in my safe. I enjoy shooting both. But when it comes to which I would grab first, it would be the Hi Power.

For me, the Hi Power, with Pachmayr grips, is the best feeling pistol I have ever held. Others (such as XD, Sigs, HK) also feel good in the hand, but I prefer the Hi Power. It has become my favorite to shoot in local matches. I am a better shot with the Hi Power than the 1911. However, for IPSC I will use the 1911 due to power factor.

True, it is easier to get accessories for the 1911. But since I am not interested in too many bells and whistles on any pistol this is not an issue for me. All I need to do on the Hi Power is remove the mag safety and do a bit of trigger work.

Question: Do the Hi Power clones have the firing pin safety mechanism that is found on later models of the Hi Power?
 

KyJim

New member
I keep telling myself I'm going to get a Hi-Power but have just never done so. Maybe I should look harder at alternate sources of used Hi-Powers because the ones I see in the local gun stores all seem to be $800+.

On the cast vs. forged frame issue, this might be of interest from a respected shooter and author on Hi-Powers. In talking about differences in the 9mm and the .40 SW FN Hi-Power, Stephen Camp writes:
The basic differences in the two pistols is in the width of the slide and the forty-caliber version of the Hi Power is the reason that we now have cast frames on all Hi Powers made by FN. Prior to the release of the forty, all Hi Power frames were forged, but the frame rails reportedly warped or cracked after approximately 2500 rounds. I tend to believe this explanation as Hi Power guru, Wayne Novak, converted some of the FBI HRT 9mm Hi Powers to forty several years ago, but problems in durability were experienced as these had forged frames and the standard weight 9mm slide. Some folks simply hate the cast frames. I have noted zero problems in using them heavily although one downside is that there appear to be some slight dimensional differences from the forged frame upon which aftermarket grips were designed.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/HiPowers9mmvs40.htm

This might also dispel the myth that forged frames are always better than cast. It highly depends upon the quality of the forgings and castings. I do believe a high quality forged frame will be stronger than a high quality cast frame of the same weight and dimensions.
 

WVsig

New member
This might also dispel the myth that forged frames are always better than cast. It highly depends upon the quality of the forgings and castings. I do believe a high quality forged frame will be stronger than a high quality cast frame of the same weight and dimensions.

They could have made the 40 S&W work with a forged frame but it was going to cost more. They older ones were heat treated with a process that made it "strong" enough for the 9mm. When they went to the 40 S&W it warpped the rails. By using the cast frame the made it stronger than the forged at relatively the same production cost. Sticking with forged would have cost more.

Grip fit is an issue with a lot of hi powers not just MKIIIs with cast frames. I have swapped out all my BHP's grips for Navederix Slims or Spegels. The only one that still wears stock grips is my Pre T gun.

For many people at the LGS is an expensive gun but again if you know where to look they can be had NIB for $700.

I currently own a few and have never paid more than $550 for a one. All of them were purchase used. These are the ones which are currently in the safe.

Practical MKIII:

bhppractical2.jpg


MKII Isreali with updated sights, safety and ring hammer:

bhp-izzi.jpg


Pre T St louis Rollmark with internal extractor:

pre-t-hi-power-2.jpg


And finally the king of the castle... 1972 Browning Hi Power which was customized by WWG. C&S hammer, sear, trigger, safety, Spegel grips & Novak sights.

BHP2.jpg


I have had about 2 or 3 others....


I let this one go to my sister in law. She shot it and took it and would not give it back. I did get cash but lost the gun. LOL MKIII Customized by Don @ Action works. Lots of C&S parts and Henie 8 sights.

DSCF1908.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top