New Army Handgun: We're Really Doing This

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Bart Noir

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I'm rather excited by the new Beretta APX design, which some sources say is one of the contenders for a new Army pistol. It is striker-fired and has a low bore axis. It also has a modular trigger pack chassis system (the serialized part) like the SIG.

The pictures I've seen show no thumb safety, but I'm sure there can be a version with the safety, just like there are versions of the M&P and the FNS which have manual safeties.

The APX, by the way, does not use the rotating barrel of the Px4 model.

Bart Noir
 
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Limnophile

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Apparently hollow point ammo is on the table as well.
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Hollowpoints are fair game for illegal combatants, as using them on such dirtbags does not violate the Hague Convention. One of the biggest gripes about the M9 from users in Iraq and Afghanistan is they want a better bullet, which means bigger caliber or something that expands. Would a fast-acting poisonous tip violate the international law of war in any way?

I can see approving JHPs for combat against illegal combatants causing a big logistics hassle. For example, if a declared war suddenly started in such a theater, all the issued JHPs would have to be quickly rounded up before a protected combatant could be shot with one.
 
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RAfiringline

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If a credible study exists that indicates that the Glock SA only guns don't actually lead to a higher rate of accidents than DA/SA guns, that might be what it would take for DOD to accept them, assuming reliability etc. passes.
 
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Regular Joe

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JHP, for sure. We did NOT sign the Hague convention.
Our DOD might be a little taken aback with the Russian efforts at a better 9mm, and now want a gun that can handle a 1,500 fps 124 gr. JHP. If you think that's unlikely, do a little reading over at Brian Enos' forums.
If you'll recall, one of the biggest obstacles for Glock in the past has been that DOD requires a "second strike" capability, meaning that if the pistol fails to fire on the first attempt, the shooter can pull the trigger and hit the same round again. This is why Ruger built the P-85 in the first place.
 
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marine6680

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1500fps 124gr 9mm?

The pressures required... And the associated recoil would be horrendous... That's magnum speeds from a smaller case.

Not to mention, not very effective at increasing lethality of fmj. To the tune of not at all. Penetration is not the problem, as there is no lack of it in standard fmj.

Really accuracy is most important, even hollow points don't increase lethality much in hits that are not in vital areas.
 
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Radny97

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DanTSX

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Because many don't like the way a glock feels.

One of the reasons for these trials is to find a pistol that is adaptable to smaller handed shooters.
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The Gen 4 Glock is adaptable to smaller handed shooters.


If you don't like how it "feels" holding it and languidly waving it around, has nothing to do with how well it shoots for you, or if it exceeds requirements. The military certainly doesn't care how it "feels" in your hand. You're in luck, as You likely won't be holding it much anyways.
 
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DanTSX

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1500fps 124gr 9mm?

The pressures required... And the associated recoil would be horrendous... That's magnum speeds from a smaller case.

Not to mention, not very effective at increasing lethality of fmj. To the tune of not at all. Penetration is not the problem, as there is no lack of it in standard fmj.

Really accuracy is most important, even hollow points don't increase lethality much in hits that are not in vital areas.
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Likely max pressure rating requirement, like a proof pressure. Ammo spec would be along he lines of NATO spec.


I disagree that accuracy is most important. Training is most important. Military doesn't train enough on handguns, and does not keep up on servicing them. Then again, they don't need a new pistol contract to accomplish this.....
 
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marine6680

New member
Training is important, but I was speaking in an academic way. The pure mechanics of the lethality of a pistol round.


And the gen 4 glocks are better than the prior versions, but still not very friendly to small hands.
 
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DanTSX

New member
Marine, I wish Colt had stuck with their brief partnership with CZ in the 90's that produced the cz40 and equivalent Colt model. It would had been a vector to bring a DoD dized contract of CZ types to the field. That gun works for small hands exceptionally. Accuracy not a problem either.
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
"JHP, for sure. We did NOT sign the Hague convention."

Incorrect. We didn't sign the 1899 Hague convention, but the US DID sign the 1907 Hague convention.

While the wording on bullets is far more vague in the 1907 accord, the US has always approached it as if the wording from the 1899 accord was still in force, meaning no military use of expanding bullets.

There are some who are now saying that use of hollow point bullets against terrorists would be OK, as terrorist organizations aren't party to any of those international treaties.
 
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Homerboy

Moderator
I don't know. It just seems very lame to try to make everybody happy. You're a freaking soldier, learn to use the weapon you are issued and carry on! I'll bet no private said to his Sergeant in 1942 "But Sarge, this M1 doesn't feel right to me! And this .45 is too heavy!"
 
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Mike Irwin

Staff
"But Sarge, this M1 doesn't feel right to me! And this .45 is too heavy!"


Not a problem, Private Gumby! You can just leave both over there for the QM to pick up, because you're our new BAR man!
 
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Independent George

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When it comes to sidearms, I wish the DOD would give up its pretensions about being a weapons developer and just bulk order a bunch of existing guns off the shelf.

It'd save everybody a lot of time and money, but a bunch of generals don't spend five years getting wined and dined.
 
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JDBerg

New member
XM17 Draft Request for Proposals Released

More info on the release of the XM17 Draft RFP;

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=7834ef834ee2733709ad63b072b4e93d

http://peosoldier.armylive.dodlive.mil/2015/06/17/xm17-draft-request-for-proposals-released/

The draft solicitation reference number is W15QKN15R002. The ACO is out of Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey. The article states that the final solicitation won't be released until next year, with a phased down select process to run through 2017.
 
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