My letter to Remington Arms Co... Regarding my R700 and 870

mrgoodwrench76

New member
Savage model 10FCP in .308 that gets consistent .6 @ 100 with factory 168 g Hornady's out of the box, no mods. Granted the box cost me about 900 but neither of my 700's will do that. Remington wont get another dime of my money.
 

LanceOregon

Moderator
Man, with all of your nice rifles, and them all wearing great glass like Zeiss and Leupold, I would never have thought that you were a college student.

You are extremely fortunate to be able to buy any guns at such a young age, let alone such top notch ones.

I can highly recommend Pac-Nor barrels here in Oregon for their re-barreling services. They can turn a Model 700 into an extremely accurate rifle. However, it does indeed suck big time to have to spend so much money.

It sounds like you will need to replace the trigger with something like a Timney Trigger too. And that will cost you another $150

So you really are looking at about $750 to fix the rifle. And that is a lot of money. There are quite a few new rifles that can be bought for only $750

.
 

Bird Dog

New member
You hear/read about people getting a sub MOA Remington at Wal-mart, then you hear about something like this. I don't know what to think anymore. Seems like a crap shoot unfortunately. For accuracy, I think Savage consistently makes really good guns right now. I know for sure, the Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard line is machined very well. I think Browning and T/C produce accurate guns overall. Some smart folks I know swear by CZ and Tikka. Hard to buy a Remington right now when you have all those good choices.
 

Txhillbilly

New member
All of today's gun MFG's have QC and Production problems.It is just what happens in today's-I want it now,and as cheap as I can get it world.

The big retailers have made it impossible for mfg's to be able to put quality workmanship in their products anymore,and still make profits.So the mfg's find ways to cut corners/cost by making guns faster and cheaper than the ones made decades ago.

I had the Savage Custom Shop build me a 110FLP 25/06 Tactical rifle late last year.It cost me about $200 more than a cataloged 110FLP because it had been discontinued a couple years back,but they had some barrels still in stock.
It was a copper mine,the barrel looked like a wash board inside with tooling marks.How do these things get over looked by QC ?
I decided not to send it back to Savage,and just deal with it myself.It took several months of hand lapping,cleaning,shooting,etc.,but I finally got it where it would shoot great,and now it will shoot just about any bullet weight.

For the time and money I have in this gun,I could have built a custom rifle myself,cheaper.
Live and Learn!

I'm not bashing Savage,I have several of their products,and this was my first to be a lemon.

I hope Remington will make good on your guns,but don't hold your breath.
 
All of today's gun MFG's have QC and Production problems.It is just what happens in today's-I want it now,and as cheap as I can get it world.

The big retailers have made it impossible for mfg's to be able to put quality workmanship in their products anymore,and still make profits.So the mfg's find ways to cut corners/cost by making guns faster and cheaper than the ones made decades ago.

I had the Savage Custom Shop build me a 110FLP 25/06 Tactical rifle late last year.It cost me about $200 more than a cataloged 110FLP because it had been discontinued a couple years back,but they had some barrels still in stock.
It was a copper mine,the barrel looked like a wash board inside with tooling marks.How do these things get over looked by QC ?
I decided not to send it back to Savage,and just deal with it myself.It took several months of hand lapping,cleaning,shooting,etc.,but I finally got it where it would shoot great,and now it will shoot just about any bullet weight.

For the time and money I have in this gun,I could have built a custom rifle myself,cheaper.
Live and Learn!

I'm not bashing Savage,I have several of their products,and this was my first to be a lemon.

I hope Remington will make good on your guns,but don't hold your breath.

Tx,

In January, I bought a BDL manufactured in 1979, chambered in 7mm Express Remington... If the rifle had more than a box of shells through it I would be surprised.. If my CDL was anywhere near the quality of my old BDL, we wouldn't be having this converstation..
 
Man, with all of your nice rifles, and them all wearing great glass like Zeiss and Leupold, I would never have thought that you were a college student.

You are extremely fortunate to be able to buy any guns at such a young age, let alone such top notch ones.

I can highly recommend Pac-Nor barrels here in Oregon for their re-barreling services. They can turn a Model 700 into an extremely accurate rifle. However, it does indeed suck big time to have to spend so much money.

It sounds like you will need to replace the trigger with something like a Timney Trigger too. And that will cost you another $150

So you really are looking at about $750 to fix the rifle. And that is a lot of money. There are quite a few new rifles that can be bought for only $750

Lance,

I have a pretty simple formula for sucess in my gun hobby... I don't party and drink all of my money away every weekend like many college students do... I save up my pennies.. I look for stuff on sale.. Pretty simple really... For what a couple good nights of debauchery would cost, I can scrape up the $$$ for a scope or a good portion of what a good hunting rifle cost.. My tastes are a direct result of the experiences with my father from a young age.. Avoid instant gratification and buy good stuff was what I learned... I've had guns sit for six months or more while I saved up for a good scope...
 

wsp64

New member
Have to agree with the early poster who said

"buy used". Many 700s are fine rifles, but has anyone ever seen a bad 721 or 722 ? Smooth, accurate cut rifling, great blue jobs. Many of the more sought after ones command higher prices than a new 700.
If you don't like the stock's drop, anyone can fit a 700 stock from Numrich for peanuts. Not that you'll ever see wood like a 721/722 B on a 700.

Finally they had proper length barrels. Best of all the early 722s in 222 shared the same barrel blank as the 300 H&H, so you got a 26" stiff barrel with only a .224 hole in it. They are all bughole shooters.
 

brmfan

New member
"It really is the luck of the draw on whether or not you get a good product from Remington these days.."

I'd say that there are far more Remmy tack drivers being produced today than lemons. Savages have good accuracy in general... no better or worse than an out of the box Remmy IMO... but I've seen plenty of them crap out in F Class matches (stuck bolts, weak firing pin strikes, improper headspacing from the factory just to name a recent few). When there are X% more Remmy's being put out there on a daily basis than others you are bound to hear about more duds. Doesn't mean it's an definitive trend, and is never an excuse for poor quality control.

Are Savages a good $value? Without a doubt. But at the end of the day I'll still lay out the extra cabbage for a Remington!
 

dalegribble

New member
remingtons reputation is shot. between national news stories on safety issues and injuries and all the poor quality and accuracy posts remington won't be getting any of my money. what is a shame is i hear the same complaints now from marlin and h&r now owned by the same company that owns remington. i have 3 weatherby vanguards that shoot 1/2" groups straight from the box, and they work. rugers are still good as are savage rifles, at least i don't hear complaints about them.
 

brmfan

New member
Point taken. Yet, from the trips to the service center and the work that was done, as you described in detail, I'd say they owned up and made a reasonable effort to correct the problem. Still, it is not meeting your standard and at this point I'd probably say they need to replace it. I hope you get the problem resolved one way or another.
 

Palmetto-Pride

New member
rugers are still good as are savage rifles, at least i don't hear complaints about them.

Gee I wonder just how many more 700s are out there as compared to Rugers & Savage rifles, my guess would be more than both combined with that many more rifles you are bound to have a few lemons, but that is no excuse for Remington not doing anything about it.....:eek:
 

Warchild

New member
Prepare for a scripted response from a soulless corporation. Personally, I wouldn't have spent the time to write such a statement but commend you on doing so and making an effort.
 

dogngun

New member
.300, I would have bit the bullet on that rifle long ago - I

applaud your patience. Personally, I prefer Savage or sporterized Mauser rifles.

I hope someone at Remington actually reads your letter and takes it seriously.

Good luck.

mark
 

Teirst

New member
heck you never know who you will get a response from. I recently wrote my senator and was amazed to get a call only a couple of days later.

Good luck getting your rifle taken care of
 

leadcounsel

Moderator
Happy Remington owner here

Bash all you want:

I'm a happy Remington shotgun owner. Great design.

Yes they have started to cut corners with cheaper synthetic stock and some plastic parts like the trigger guard, but unfortunately that's a sign of trying to stay competitive with the cheaper companies.

It would be nice if they offered an option on 'plastic or steel' but as others pointed out, market pressures from price sensitive or weight sensitive buyers push quality down (use of plastics vs. steel).
 

ntpastoraaron

New member
I have had some good and bad experiences with my first and only Remington 700 SPS in a 300 WSM. As you stated with the trigger, mine also was extremely hard and I could see it was causing me to pull my rifle off the target as it was releasing -thus the inaccuracy. I could hardly get it to group within 4" at 100 yards. I tried to adjust the factory trigger - yes I know that is a big concern and voids any warranty. I was not satisfied with the factory trigger so I invested another $120 on a Timney Trigger and installed this myself. This greatly improved my control of the rifle. I also had problems with the recoil loosening up the scope and mounts, changing my point of impact considerably. I then used some Locktite to fix this. My 700 now groups at about 0.0750" at 100 yards. I used forums like this to see what others did to overcome their problems, and used their experiences to move forward in concerns with my rifle.
 
Additions/Modifications to the Letter:

I understand that mistakes do happen in manufacturing, but for me to purchase two very different products, months apart and have them both be flawed is alarming. The second thing, I have a problem with is that the factory and customer service failed to correct the problems found with both firearms. Between my father and I, we currently own XX Remington firearms, nearly all of them purchased new from our local full line Remington dealer. After the quality control problems evident in both of my firearms and the lack of adequate customer service after the initial purchases, even my father, a devout Remington fan, is deeply shaken by my experience with the recent products I’ve purchased. He’s put several Remington purchases on hold, pending the outcome of my situation. When you include the Remington Firearms owned by my extended family, the number goes well over 100 guns, many of them R700s are 870s. They are also waiting to hear to results of this issue regarding my substandard Remington firearms.

I grew up learning with Remington firearms and when I finally had the ability to buy my own, I received a substandard product. Not only did I receive a substandard product, but I did not receive adequate customer service from the factory. I really want to purchase another Remington firearm, most likely another R700 CDL or possibly a CDL Stainless fluted in .257 Weatherby Mag, in the next 12 months, but after my experience with the two guns discussed above, I don’t have the confidence that I will receive a quality product or if needed receive adequate customer service. At the absolute minimum, I would like the rifle to be replaced with a new 700. I would request that I be credited $500, the amount I’ve invested in attempting to make the rifle work. In regards to the 870 Wingmaster, although it now functions, that does not make up for the fact that the bluing on the barrel is atrocious and even with a weekly coat of Rem Oil, it continues to rust through the bluing as it has done from day one. I also request that I be sent a new 28” remchoke, vent rib, Wingmaster Barrel. I would also request that I be credited the $200, I spent trying to get the Wingmaster to function. As a college student, my money does not come easy. When I spend my hard-earned dollars, on a firearm I expect it to work, and if it doesn’t I expect the manufacturer to fix the problem. I’ve posted this letter on a number of online firearms forums, whether my experience is pro or con, a much larger audience (around 200,000 members of various sites) will be able to read the results. If this matter is not resolved in a satisfactory manner, I will never purchase another new Remington product and that includes firearms from companies such as Marlin, H&R, Bushmaster, DPMS and Dakota Arms as well.

Regards,

.300 Weatherby
 

Warchild

New member
I will state this again, you will get more flies with honey than with vinegar. Expect an equally abrupt reply to your abrupt response. Threatening the very company you are requesting a resolution from is not the proper tact to take, don't threaten them with telling on them to internet peeps. Make a friend of them, not an enemy. Admit that manufacturing mistakes are bound to happen and you look forward to working with them in resolving this issue. That you are confident that it can and will be settled and you appreciate in advance any such assistance. If they don't, go on, post on all the forums you want, but don't make an enemy of them so soon. They already have your money...
 
Top