.300 Weatherby Mag
New member
Remington Arms Company, Inc.
Consumer Service Department
870 Remington Drive
P.O. Box 700
Madison, NC 27025-0700
Dear Remington Customer Service,
I’m beginning to lose faith in the Remington Brand after the negative experiences I’ve had with the last two products purchased from your company. Before going into my issues, I want to give a little bit of background on my experiences with Remington products. The first shotgun, I ever fired was an 870, and from then on I’ve been a loyal Remington customer. The first centerfire rifle I fired was one of my father’s Remington 700s. I came to expect a very high level performance after shooting my father’s Remington rifles and shotguns. When I was old enough to buy a rifle and a shotgun, I went out and bought an 870 Wingmaster and a model 700 CDL chambered in .243 Winchester. I saved for many months so that I could purchase these two firearms and I ended up buying each brand new from a local dealer. After taking out each of these firearms my confidence in Remington was deeply shaken.
The model 700 is chambered in .243 Winchester, and was a great disappointment right out of the box. The trigger was unreliable and had a pull weight of 14 pounds and felt like it was full of metal shavings. The best accuracy this rifle would produce off a Sinclair Competition Rest was a 5 shot group of 6 inches at 100 yards. By the standards of the other Remington rifles I’ve shot, this is unacceptable. With every other Remington 700, I’ve had the chance to shoot, I’ve been able to achieve excellent levels of accuracy often with groups of 1 inch or less at 100 yards. I tried every variety of Remington ammunition hoping to find a load that would shrink the groups, to no avail. I also tried of a variety of the competitor’s ammunition, with similar results, nothing less than 6 inches at 100 yards. To take out the human factor, I had others shoot this rifle off of their benchrest type rests, with identical results. I then had my father shoot it, a former ranked competitive shooter. By this time, the rifle had several hundred rounds through it, with no improvement in accuracy.
The rifle was sent back to your customer service department for inspection and repair. When the rifle was returned, there was no discernable improvement in either trigger function or accuracy. At this point I was very disappointed, that my rifle was still producing substandard accuracy and still had the horrible trigger. I understand the need to keep the trigger pull weight up for liability reasons, but a 14 pound, gritty, and unreliable trigger on an $800 rifle is completely unacceptable. The trigger was so rough that it was hard to know when the gun would go off. The gun would then sometimes lag between the time you squeezed the trigger and the time it went off. By checking the serial number, I determined the rifle was produced just prior to the release of the X-Mark adjustable trigger, so my trigger is not user adjustable. Adjusting triggers is beyond my ability and at no time did I attempt to modify the rifle myself.
I knew part of the accuracy problem was the atrociously heavy, gritty and sometimes unreliable trigger pull. After not getting adequate service from the factory itself, I took the rifle to my local Remington Factory Authorized Service Center, to have the rifle worked on so it would at least fire reliably. I then took the rifle out to the range again, still there was no improvement in accuracy. I took the rifle back the same service center, hoping that they could find another solution to the accuracy problem. The first thing that came into question was the scope and mounts. This was checked and different scopes and mounts were used with no change seen in the accuracy. The rifle currently wears a Leupold VX-3 and steel mounts and bases, this again did not improved accuracy.
After no improvement in accuracy, the Service Center went deeper into the rifle. Checking the barrel channel, The barrel had approximately 8 points of contact from the stock’s barrel channel. They floated the barrel with still no improvement in accuracy, also the muzzle was recrowned to eliminate the crown as a possible source of the accuracy problems. This still yielded no improvement in accuracy. I brought the rifle back for further investigation, after the work yielded no improvement in accuracy. The gunsmiths then looked at the action, they determined the action was not being evenly bedded into the stock, because the action inletting was not even. They sanded down the high spots in the action inletting, so the action would sit even in the stock and the action screws would now exert even pressure instead of applying torque to the action in different directions. Finally, this attempt yielded a notable increase in accuracy, but group size only decreased to 4 inches at 100 yards.
The problem with 4 inch groupings at 100 yards, is that I cannot in good conscience, attempt to harvest an animal with this rifle given the distances normally required. Shots at 300 yards are common in the open area I hunt. The group spread this rifle produces at 300 yards, greatly increases the chances of a gut shot and ultimately a lost animal. At this point, I’ve exhausted all options trying to make this rifle shoot adequately except a replacement barrel. I do not wish to sell the rifle, as my father helped me to purchase it before deer season. Currently, my only option is to save up the approximately $600 a replacement barrel and installation will cost. As a college student in this economy it will take me quite some time to accumulate the $600 needed for the barrel and barrel installation. I’ve already spent $500 on top of what the rifle cost attempting to make it shoot adequately, to no avail. For an $800 rifle with a $600 scope and $100 rings and bases this type of performance is completely unacceptable. I don’t know where to go from here, other than to ask for a replacement rifle or barrel to be installed by my local factory service center. After a trip, back to the factory and the many subsequent trips to the my local service center, I should have a rifle that shoots, but still I don’t have a rifle that my 90 year old 30-30 can’t easily out perform at 100 yards.
My other problem firearm is an 870 Wingmaster I purchased within a few months of purchasing the above Remington 700 CDL. This gun did not function out of the box. It would feed and fire and then the action would lock up half-way open. This gun was also sent back to the factory for repair and again I got back a gun that was not 100% fixed. I took this gun to the same factory authorized service center, that I had working on the 700. Again, they worked diligently to get the gun to work, after much effort and monetary expense, they got the gun to function 100%. A $700 pump should function out of the box. I fired thousands of rounds through my 1963 Wingmaster, with zero problems. But I sold that gun to my brother and bought the Wingmaster discussed, so I had a gun that could shoot steel shot for waterfowl.
I understand that mistakes do happen in manufacturing, but for me to purchase two very different products, months apart and have them both be flawed is alarming. The second thing, I have a problem with is that the factory and customer service failed to correct the problems found with both firearms. Between my father and I, we currently own XX Remington firearms, nearly all of them purchased new from our local full line Remington dealer. After the quality control problems evident in both of my firearms and the lack of adequate customer service after the initial purchases, even my father, a devout Remington fan, is deeply shaken by my experience with the recent products I’ve purchased. He’s put several Remington purchases on hold, pending the outcome of my situation. I grew learning with Remington firearms and when I finally had the ability to buy my own, I received a substandard product. Not only did I receive a substandard product, but I did not receive adequate customer service from the factory. I really want to purchase another Remington firearm, most likely another R700 CDL or possibly a CDL Stainless fluted in .257 Weatherby Mag, in the next 12 months, but after my experience with the two guns discussed above, I don’t have the confidence that I will receive a quality product or if needed receive adequate customer service.
Regards,
XXXXX XXXX
Consumer Service Department
870 Remington Drive
P.O. Box 700
Madison, NC 27025-0700
Dear Remington Customer Service,
I’m beginning to lose faith in the Remington Brand after the negative experiences I’ve had with the last two products purchased from your company. Before going into my issues, I want to give a little bit of background on my experiences with Remington products. The first shotgun, I ever fired was an 870, and from then on I’ve been a loyal Remington customer. The first centerfire rifle I fired was one of my father’s Remington 700s. I came to expect a very high level performance after shooting my father’s Remington rifles and shotguns. When I was old enough to buy a rifle and a shotgun, I went out and bought an 870 Wingmaster and a model 700 CDL chambered in .243 Winchester. I saved for many months so that I could purchase these two firearms and I ended up buying each brand new from a local dealer. After taking out each of these firearms my confidence in Remington was deeply shaken.
The model 700 is chambered in .243 Winchester, and was a great disappointment right out of the box. The trigger was unreliable and had a pull weight of 14 pounds and felt like it was full of metal shavings. The best accuracy this rifle would produce off a Sinclair Competition Rest was a 5 shot group of 6 inches at 100 yards. By the standards of the other Remington rifles I’ve shot, this is unacceptable. With every other Remington 700, I’ve had the chance to shoot, I’ve been able to achieve excellent levels of accuracy often with groups of 1 inch or less at 100 yards. I tried every variety of Remington ammunition hoping to find a load that would shrink the groups, to no avail. I also tried of a variety of the competitor’s ammunition, with similar results, nothing less than 6 inches at 100 yards. To take out the human factor, I had others shoot this rifle off of their benchrest type rests, with identical results. I then had my father shoot it, a former ranked competitive shooter. By this time, the rifle had several hundred rounds through it, with no improvement in accuracy.
The rifle was sent back to your customer service department for inspection and repair. When the rifle was returned, there was no discernable improvement in either trigger function or accuracy. At this point I was very disappointed, that my rifle was still producing substandard accuracy and still had the horrible trigger. I understand the need to keep the trigger pull weight up for liability reasons, but a 14 pound, gritty, and unreliable trigger on an $800 rifle is completely unacceptable. The trigger was so rough that it was hard to know when the gun would go off. The gun would then sometimes lag between the time you squeezed the trigger and the time it went off. By checking the serial number, I determined the rifle was produced just prior to the release of the X-Mark adjustable trigger, so my trigger is not user adjustable. Adjusting triggers is beyond my ability and at no time did I attempt to modify the rifle myself.
I knew part of the accuracy problem was the atrociously heavy, gritty and sometimes unreliable trigger pull. After not getting adequate service from the factory itself, I took the rifle to my local Remington Factory Authorized Service Center, to have the rifle worked on so it would at least fire reliably. I then took the rifle out to the range again, still there was no improvement in accuracy. I took the rifle back the same service center, hoping that they could find another solution to the accuracy problem. The first thing that came into question was the scope and mounts. This was checked and different scopes and mounts were used with no change seen in the accuracy. The rifle currently wears a Leupold VX-3 and steel mounts and bases, this again did not improved accuracy.
After no improvement in accuracy, the Service Center went deeper into the rifle. Checking the barrel channel, The barrel had approximately 8 points of contact from the stock’s barrel channel. They floated the barrel with still no improvement in accuracy, also the muzzle was recrowned to eliminate the crown as a possible source of the accuracy problems. This still yielded no improvement in accuracy. I brought the rifle back for further investigation, after the work yielded no improvement in accuracy. The gunsmiths then looked at the action, they determined the action was not being evenly bedded into the stock, because the action inletting was not even. They sanded down the high spots in the action inletting, so the action would sit even in the stock and the action screws would now exert even pressure instead of applying torque to the action in different directions. Finally, this attempt yielded a notable increase in accuracy, but group size only decreased to 4 inches at 100 yards.
The problem with 4 inch groupings at 100 yards, is that I cannot in good conscience, attempt to harvest an animal with this rifle given the distances normally required. Shots at 300 yards are common in the open area I hunt. The group spread this rifle produces at 300 yards, greatly increases the chances of a gut shot and ultimately a lost animal. At this point, I’ve exhausted all options trying to make this rifle shoot adequately except a replacement barrel. I do not wish to sell the rifle, as my father helped me to purchase it before deer season. Currently, my only option is to save up the approximately $600 a replacement barrel and installation will cost. As a college student in this economy it will take me quite some time to accumulate the $600 needed for the barrel and barrel installation. I’ve already spent $500 on top of what the rifle cost attempting to make it shoot adequately, to no avail. For an $800 rifle with a $600 scope and $100 rings and bases this type of performance is completely unacceptable. I don’t know where to go from here, other than to ask for a replacement rifle or barrel to be installed by my local factory service center. After a trip, back to the factory and the many subsequent trips to the my local service center, I should have a rifle that shoots, but still I don’t have a rifle that my 90 year old 30-30 can’t easily out perform at 100 yards.
My other problem firearm is an 870 Wingmaster I purchased within a few months of purchasing the above Remington 700 CDL. This gun did not function out of the box. It would feed and fire and then the action would lock up half-way open. This gun was also sent back to the factory for repair and again I got back a gun that was not 100% fixed. I took this gun to the same factory authorized service center, that I had working on the 700. Again, they worked diligently to get the gun to work, after much effort and monetary expense, they got the gun to function 100%. A $700 pump should function out of the box. I fired thousands of rounds through my 1963 Wingmaster, with zero problems. But I sold that gun to my brother and bought the Wingmaster discussed, so I had a gun that could shoot steel shot for waterfowl.
I understand that mistakes do happen in manufacturing, but for me to purchase two very different products, months apart and have them both be flawed is alarming. The second thing, I have a problem with is that the factory and customer service failed to correct the problems found with both firearms. Between my father and I, we currently own XX Remington firearms, nearly all of them purchased new from our local full line Remington dealer. After the quality control problems evident in both of my firearms and the lack of adequate customer service after the initial purchases, even my father, a devout Remington fan, is deeply shaken by my experience with the recent products I’ve purchased. He’s put several Remington purchases on hold, pending the outcome of my situation. I grew learning with Remington firearms and when I finally had the ability to buy my own, I received a substandard product. Not only did I receive a substandard product, but I did not receive adequate customer service from the factory. I really want to purchase another Remington firearm, most likely another R700 CDL or possibly a CDL Stainless fluted in .257 Weatherby Mag, in the next 12 months, but after my experience with the two guns discussed above, I don’t have the confidence that I will receive a quality product or if needed receive adequate customer service.
Regards,
XXXXX XXXX
I'm gong to send a letter quite the reverse, to Weatherby, about my new Vanguard.