McCain Selects Alaska Gov. Palin as Running Mate

[HKuser]

Obama wrote two autobiographies and helped a terrorist screw up various "community programs" or whatever.

I think screwing them up was just a by-product. The purpose of these programs is to transfer public funds into the pockets of the "community organizers." They worked quite well at their primary purpose, every other effect was secondary.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Liberal: You cheated!!! You picked Palin because she is a woman and we picked Obama [redacted] and scorned Hillary!!!

/facepalm me too -Antipitas

Go back to Stormfront.

Conservative: Did you ever think that Sarah Palin was picked because of her social and fiscal and conservative beliefs and that she has more real government / management experience than your two guys combined and being a woman had nothing to do with it?

I'm sorry, being mayor of an icecube with three people on it doesn't really count as all that much experience. Twenty months as governor of the third (IIRC) least populous state in the union is a bit better, but if you honestly think that that somehow trumps several decades of combined experience in the national legislature...yeah, that's real special.

If she had two years as Governor of Texas, or Florida, or California, or a handful of other states that might put her on the same order of magnitude of experience. Still wouldn't be more, but at least what you just said wouldn't be an actual joke.

If you like her because she's conservative, that's both understandable and reasonable. But anybody without a huge conservative hard-on for her is going to laugh you back to the stoneage if you try to pass this crap off.

 

[dresden8]

who supports teaching creationism in our public schools

Oh dear.

Nutjob.

Was a winner on everything else.

 

[Forwardassist]

I would also like to point out is her ethics violation charges. While some here might trivialize and dismiss it, one can not forget that there is still an ongoing investigation. The third party board will not come to a conclusion on the charges until a week before the election. If the charges are substantiated then it will do serious damage to McCain, and most likely sink any chances he had of winning. That is a serious risk for McCain to take. Why would he want a VP candidate who is being currently being investigated, and on top of that has less experience than the main Dem candidate. Obama does not have a lot of experience but he still has more than Palin, and at least he has been in the public eye for a couple of years. Palin has little public exposure until yesterday, and no political experience on a national level. Her being on the the ticket gives the Dems more ammunition to nail McCain. Already the MSN is attacking her lack of experience, and supposed ethics violations. That will put a lot of doubt in voters minds about his ticket. To me it just seems like a very desperate move. Which is quite telling of how bad McCain needed to shake up his flagging campaign. Even so he so no bounce in the polls after her nomination, and even lost some some support.

On the side, it was a great move to sure up the Republican support, as can be witnessed on this site. But, and this is big, some of her stances on socials issues are down right scary for moderates, and independent voters. Her support for creationism in schools, anti-gay rights, being staunchly pro-life and even being a hunter will be a major turn offs for many independents. It will be interesting to see it all works out in the end.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12997.html

Scholars question her credentials.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13001.html

 

[dipper]

Yeah, well 16 months actual experience as a senator doesn't say much either.
Seems to me a there was this guy from Arkansas ( what was that about a small state?) that was OK with Dems back in the day.

I'm hoping that's just what the Dems do---attack her and highlight their own lack of experience and do nothing politics---look at the high hopes code pink and others had when the current congress was put in place, ALL the promises that were made and none kept.
Know, code pink and the like are protesting their 8% approval rated congress.

When I heard Palin's speech yesterday, what I heard was in sharp contrast to what I heard at the DNC.
Palin, for ALL of her lack of experience actually talked about things SHE HAS DONE---not things she will do--- with our money---for those that fail at life.

Kind of refreshing in my book---something different from the same old drum beat of "I'll do's" and then not delivering.

GO SARA!!

Dipper

 

[WhyteP38]

Yeah, well 16 months actual experience as a senator doesn't say much either.

My understanding is that Obama has a total of 143 working days as a US senator.

If you compare Palin against Biden on the experience issue, Biden is ahead on experience. But that's not the real point. The real point is that the Dems are complaining that Palin does not have enough experience to be SECOND on the ticket while simultaneously telling us that Obama, who has less experience than Palin, is a whopping great choice as FIRST on their ticket.

This isn't a matter of an illogical argument on the Dems' part, it's a matter of an absurd argument on their part. This is easily discernible if you were to switch places for Obama and Palin. If Palin is a bad choice for McCain's VP, Obama would be an even worse choice due to having less experience than Palin. To be logically consistent, the Dems' would have to protest even greater if Obama was in that role. So he would be an "irresponsible" choice as second on the ticket, but he's somehow fantastic as first on the ticket? That's absurd.

 

[Forwardassist]

Actually Obama does have more experience than Palin. Just look at the facts, For eight years he was a state legislator representing a section of Chicago ,then was elected a Senator. Contrast to Palin, who was on the city Council then mayor of a small town in Alaska. Then became Governor of Alaska. Obama's experience is much more dynamic than Palin's since he dealt with far more pressing issues than she has in all her years of public service.

This about sums it up for me.

Scholars question Palin credentials
By: Fred Barbash and David Mark
August 30, 2008 05:17 PM EST

John McCain was aiming to make history with his pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and historians say he succeeded.

Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era.

So unconventional was McCain’s choice that it left students of the presidency literally “stunned,” in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. “Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who’s of presidential caliber,” said Goldstein.

“I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history,” said presidential historian Matthew Dallek.

That includes Spiro T. Agnew, Richard Nixon’s first vice president, who was governor of a medium-sized state, Maryland, for two years, and before that, executive of suburban Baltimore County, the expansive jurisdiction that borders and exceeds in population the city of Baltimore.

It also includes George H.W. Bush’s vice president, Indiana Sen. Dan Quayle, who had served in the House and Senate for 12 years before taking office. And it also includes New York Rep. Geraldine Ferraro, who served three terms in the House before Walter Mondale chose her in 1984 as the first woman candidate on a major party ticket.
See Also


“It would be one thing if she had only been governor for a year and a half, but prior to that she had not had major experience in public life,” said Dallek of Palin. “The fact that he would have to go to somebody who is clearly unqualified to be president makes Obama look like an elder statesman.”

And Alaska is a much smaller state than Illinois, the political base of Barack Obama, whom Republicans have repeatedly criticized for being inexperienced, having served nearly four years in the U.S. Senate after eight in the Illinois state Senate.

“Not to belittle Alaska, but it’s different than the basket of issues you deal with in big, dynamic states.” Dallek said.

Palin has no experience in national office. Before becoming governor in December 2006, she served as a council member and mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which had a population of slightly more than 5,000 during her time in office.

Brad Blakeman, who ran the 1988 Republican convention for GOP nominee George H.W. Bush, turned the experience question on its head, suggesting accomplishments in office mean more than time accrued.

“Here’s a governor who may have served two years, but her accomplishments are worth eight,” said Blakeman, citing Palin's work as governor on ethics reform and an Alaska oil pipeline. “She’s got as much experience for being vice president as Barack does to be president.”

But other students of presidential history said that In choosing Palin as his running mate, McCain has reached back to a time when few actually seriously contended that the vice president should be demonstrably prepared to assume the presidency from day one.

If elected vice president, Palin would appear to have the least amount of experience in federal office or as a governor since John W. Kern, Democrat William Jennings Bryan’s 1908 running mate, who had served for four years in the Indiana state Senate and then four more as city solicitor of Indianapolis. The Democratic ticket lost to Republican standard bearer William Howard Taft and running mate James S. Sherman by an Electoral College spread of 321-162.

More conventionally in modern times, running mates could boast decades of experience in Washington, from ballot box winners like Dick Cheney, Al Gore, the elder Bush and Mondale to also-rans such as Jack Kemp, Lloyd Bentsen and Joseph I. Lieberman.

These super-credentialed candidates were sometimes chosen, like Joe Biden, to shore up the resumes of candidates with little or no time in Washington, such as Jimmy Carter (Mondale) Bill Clinton (Gore) and Michael Dukakis (Bentsen.)

Palin, on the other hand, is a total “wild card,” said Stanford historian David Kennedy.

“If she had been around for two terms as governor — or been a senator — it would have been an incredible choice,” said historian Doris Kearns Goodwin. “Who else could he have found who appealed to the conservative base … and as someone who was a reformer?”

That’s not to say Palin will be a dud on the campaign trail.

But out-of-the-box picks in recent years have not usually worked out too well for the top of the ticket. Consider independent candidate Ross Perot’s 1992 running mate, former Navy Adm. James Stockdale, who famously asked at the vice presidential debate with Gore and Quayle, “Who am I, why am I here?”

“He took the wind out of Perot’s sails, and Perot could have done even better” than the 19 percent he garnered, Dallek said.

A bad running mate pick can even put a successful presidential ticket in question. The 1988 Bush-Quayle victory over Dukakis and Bentsen came in spite of Quayle’s frequent campaign trail gaffes and questions about his military service in the Vietnam era and other controversies. Bush handlers largely relegated Quayle to small town audiences that would attract little media attention.

“Quayle — it threw off the momentum for some weeks,” said Goodwin. “One has to hope for McCain’s sake that [Palin] has been fully vetted.”

“The first thing that hits me,” said Stephen Hess of the Brookings Institution," is that it suggests that John McCain is a gambler. This is a high roller decision.”

“The next thing you have to ask yourself: Is it worrisome to have a gambler in the Oval Office? That’s an important question," he said, “perhaps more important than anything else today.”

 

[WhyteP38]

Forwardassist, your math is incorrect.

Obama’s political experience consists of his 1997-2004 service in the IL state legislature. That’s 7 years (not 8 as you posted, because you are counting when he was elected, but he didn’t start until 1997). He has been a U.S. senator since 2005, but has served only 143 working days in that capacity, having spent the rest of his time running for president. So his political experience consists of 7 years 5 months.

Palin’s political experience consists of her two terms on the city council, from 1992-1996. That’s 4 years. She served as mayor from 1996-2002. That’s 6 years. (Also of note, she was elected president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors during this time.) She took office as governor of Alaska on December 4, 2006. That’s 1 year 8 months. So her total political experience consists of 11 years 8 months.

Obama has zero executive experience. He’s never held any executive-level position in either the private or public sectors. He has NEVER made a single executive-level decision in his life.

Palin was a mayor and is currently a governor. The positions require executive-level decisions.

11 years 8 months is more than 7 years 5 months, plus she has executive experience and he doesn’t. Even if you give Obama full credit for his US senate time, he still has less time in service than Palin does.

Obama's experience is much more dynamic than Palin's since he dealt with far more pressing issues than she has in all her years of public service.

This might be true, but only if he learned something. He attended Rev. Wright's church for 20 years, was baptized by him, was married by him, had his children baptized by him, and yet was still clueless about what Wright was all about.

 

[Don Lu]

Forward assist I agree with you...

On the side, it was a great move to sure up the Republican support, as can be witnessed on this site. But, and this is big, some of her stances on socials issues are down right scary for moderates, and independent voters. Her support for creationism in schools, anti-gay rights, being staunchly pro-life and even being a hunter will be a major turn offs for many independents. It will be interesting to see it all works out in the end.

This will be huge..Here on this forum its like preaching to the choir..its a no-brainer that she will receive support from her own, but she will not lure independents and or the hillary vote or anyone else who wasnt already going to vote for mccain. she may actually lose some independants for mccain..we will see. its all speculation now anyway.

 

[dm1333]

Actually Obama does have more experience than Palin. Just look at the facts, For eight years he was a state legislator representing a section of Chicago ,then was elected a Senator. Contrast to Palin, who was on the city Council then mayor of a small town in Alaska. Then became Governor of Alaska. Obama's experience is much more dynamic than Palin's since he dealt with far more pressing issues than she has in all her years of public service.

Obama and Biden have more experience than her. Do you still want two of the most liberal senators, in a Congress that has single digit approval ratings, to be in charge of the country? What great work has either one of them done while they were in Congress? I'm not trying to denigrate either of them or blame them solely for the poor work of our Congress, but what great things have they done? Heck, the Dems are mad at Pelosi because of her performance.

I'll take a flyer on this woman because in her short time in the political arena she seems to have accomplished some good.

 

[madmag]

He attended Rev. Wright's church for 20 years, was baptized by him, was married by him, had his children baptized by him, and yet was still clueless about what Wright was all about.

Great point from a "no" learning perspective.

but she will not lure independents and or the hillary vote or anyone else who wasn't already going to vote for McCain.

I disagree. It's hard to put value on excitement, but Palin has actually brought excitement to a boring campaign. Obama was supposed to be the agent of change, then he selects a boring old time beltway insider. I am finding that Palin seems to be exciting to others than just on these gun boards. Yes the jury is still out, but McCain did change the dynamics of this election with her selection. We will see.

 

[Don Lu]

Palin has actually brought excitement to a boring campaign.

that excitedment is shared by the conservatives that are giddy at the thought..but anyone who supported Hillary on the issues could not support Palin. If his motive was to lure Hillary supporters with a woman VP choice he would be insulting the intellegence of those former Hillary supporters. Way too different on the issues to justify switching sides.
On a different topic, and I am not trying to be funny..she has a child with a major disability, and Mccain is pretty old and has been fighting cancer for a while (he's doing well now thank goodness) oh,and she is also under investigation for unethical conduct..suppose these factors come together in a "perfect storm" of sorts, what happens then... Im sure she'd put her child first (which she should) but that would be a HUGE challenge to juggle down syndrome child on a daily basis and still be available to perform the duties of POTUS if she had to assume the role of POTUS...and if found guilty in the investigation..the entire country and world would consider her integrity suspect..I really think he had better options.

 

[LightningJoe]

Anybody who could regard Obama as a serious candidate for President and who also had any reservations at all about Palin as a candidate for VP would clearly lack the objectivity needed to perform logical thought processes. I feel I am free to disregard their views without picking through them too carefully. It'd be like trying to catalog the errors in A Course in Miracles.

 

[madmag]

Im sure she'd put her child first (which she should) but that would be a HUGE challenge to juggle down syndrome child on a daily basis and still be available to perform the duties of POTUS if she had to assume the role of POTUS...

Wow, and she would also have to allow time for cookie baking. Refreshing to see really good logical reasons why a woman can't be President.

On a different topic, and I am not trying to be funny..she has a child with a major disability,

Don't worry, I don't think many thought you funny at all.

 

[Monkeyleg]

If his motive was to lure Hillary supporters with a woman VP choice he would be insulting the intellegence of those former Hillary supporters.

And those Hillary supporters who are still angry about her not getting the nomination supported her because: a) she was a woman, or b) she had more executive experience and foreign policy experience than John McCain.

As for the child with Downs syndrome, one of Obama's hitmen tried that tactic yesterday with the media, saying that she wouldn't have time to devote to office while dealing with a child with Downs syndrome. The Obama campaign shut that guy up quickly.

 

[Don Lu]

Wow, and she would also have to allow time for cookie baking. Refreshing to see really good logical reasons why a woman can't be President.

Low blow~ as my point was not to, in any way imply a woman could not be president...and Im pretty sure you knew that, but if thats what you felt you needed to resort to....have at it.

The Obama campaign shut that guy up quickly.

And they should have shut the guy up...but that doesnt mean its not a valid concern along with the other stuff I mentioned that noone wanted to quote.

 

[dipper]

Let Don Lu speak guys---it's JUST what I'm hoping for---ignorant talk like that will alienate all but the most rabid liberal women out there.
I hope I see comments just like that on the news in the next week!!
Go ahead---ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK.

Dipper

 

[madmag]

So far, it appears the Dem's have come up with two attacks on Palin.

1) She is not experienced. But we have read now several times that she in fact has more experience than Obama.

2) She has a child with special needs and that would not allow her the time to be a good mother and POTUS. Not worthy of a response.

Clearly McCain struck a nerve with the Obama camp. Obama talked change and then stepped up to the plate with an old time beltway insider....boring to boot. McCain's choice was bold and outside of the beltway box. Obama and his backers know they were out foxed by McCain, and that's why they are protesting Palin so much.

ignorant talk like that will alienate all but the most rabid liberal women out there.

Point taken.

 

[dipper]

Just one more thing to think about.

Does anyone out there think ANY of these women in this type of position take care of their own children when they are in office--I mean on a daily basis??
Anybody think Hillary "raised" Chelsea?
Nancy P. raised her's??

Maybe we'll see someone ask Hillary or Nancy and others how they managed to take care of their children in such a demanding job--they can give pointers to Sara.

Dipper

 

[44 AMP]

Love or Hate

Doesn't seem to be too much middle ground. Of course, it is early yet.

McCain made a brilliant choice that will win the election...
McCain shot himself in the foot....I have even heard one savage individual say that McCain has made this choice to throw the election to Obama, by picking an inexperienced woman no one has ever heard of!

Her lack of being in the general (lower 48) public eye is seen as a handicap. Well folks, thanks to our wonderful media, I don't think she will stay an unknown for very long. Unless you studiously avoid all tv, radio, print, and even the people around you, you will know all there is to know about Gov Palin well before November. So I think her being an "unknown" is not going to hurt anything much.

In fact, her being an outsider I think will help things alot. And this ties in to all the bull over experience, or lack of it. Argue all you want about who has or doesn't have experience enough to be President (or VP), all I know is that for me, this is a breath of fresh air.

It is the experienced politicians that have gotten us into the situation we are in today. Frankly, I don't see how someone without the benefit of years in the Washington scene could do worse. And that goes for Congress ever bit as much as it does for the Presidency!

For the first time this election cycle, I have some hope!