M1A Intervention Needed

[SR420]

Well done Tucker !!


Quote:
Me, personally, I think it's stupid trying to make an M1A into a modern 7.62/.308 optic-mounted AR. That's why 7.62/.308 ARs were invented. Get one. I got mine.

Tucker 1371 They (The AR10 and M14) were actually invented at about the same time and the AR10 in its original form had a FAMAS type charging handle running along the top, so I don't think it was invented with optics in mind. I just don't like the AR10, not for me. Even in all the goofy stocks I've had it in I still feel like my M1A has more soul than a .308 AR.

Quote:
At day's end, all you have is an "M1A" that you made much heavier than it was in its original form - which was in a plain-jane wood or synthetic stock and running iron sights.

Tucker 1371 My unscoped unloaded M1A weighs almost a half pound lighter than an unscoped unloaded AR10

 

[Quentin2]

Tucker 1371 ... I still feel like my M1A has more soul than a .308 AR

Hard to argue with but my AR-10 has soul. It's actually stamped ArmaLite and AR-10A on the receiver and even would work with a 1950s ArmaLite magazine (if I could find one). I love it and my M1A, but a FAL, nah "that ain't got no soul".

 

[mavracer]

My unscoped unloaded M1A weighs almost a half pound lighter than an unscoped unloaded AR10

???????????
A scout squad weighs 8.8# a S&W M&P10 weighs 6.5# and that still doesn't help the fact that when I put the scope and stock on my M1a it weighed almost as much as my heavy barreled 308 AR and was nowhere near as accurate.

 

[Tucker 1371]

Armalite lists the AR10B at 7.9lbs, my barreled action is 5.9lbs, the stock is 26oz (1.625lbs), so I'm at 7.525 lbs before I scope it. I suppose a lighter AR10 is achievable but what are you giving up to get that weight?

 

[mavracer]

so I'm at 7.525 lbs before I scope it.

I almost hate to do this but you forgot to add the 1/2 pound for the Magpul CTR.

And that still doesn't help with the fact that once you add the scope and mount it's going to be nearly as heavy as my 308 AR and won't come close to shooting with it. I've been down the path (twice) already and as far as soul my M1a was assembled by some guy in Ill. my 308 AR was assembled by myself.

 

[Tucker 1371]

Yep, you got me, I thought AG accounted for that on their website, my mistake.

As far as accuracy goes I honestly know nothing of the AR10 but I would figure it has most out of the box M14 pattern rifles beat. With a little tweaking, some relatively inexpensive parts, and the right load it's possible to make an M1A a sub-MOA rifle. Yes it's a little extra effort but I don't see it as being much different than guys who carry 1911s instead of double stack plastic fantastics.
Different strokes.

Just to make some sense of my seemingly insane decision making process here's how it played out. I bought my M1A in 2010 when I was 20 straight out of boot camp because I had just always been attracted to them. Then I started hunting with it and realized I needed an optic (the sights are awesome until you try to use them in low light). So that got me started down this road. Then I came back from Afghanistan in 2011 and started wondering how I would want my M1A set up for combat and that's when I got the Blackfeather, then a couple years later the Rogue, and now here I am. The Blackfeather with the scope/RDS combo and the Rogue/ACOG were both attempts to make my M1A a dual purpose DMR/CQB rifle. Then I realized that was impractical and 5.56 is much more ideal at under 100yds, so I built an AR15 and made my M1A a DMR.

 

[SR420]

And that still doesn't help with the fact that once you add the scope and mount it's going to be nearly as heavy as my 308 AR and won't come close to shooting with it.

Really?

Using a 2 MOA Aimpoint Comp M4 my little M14 shoots sub MOA groups with Portuguese NATO surplus ammunition.
How close will I come to the accuracy of your 308 AR? Should I use match ammo? Should I use a scope?

 

[Tucker 1371]

Holy smokes SR420... tell me more about your "little M14".

I'm about to fix the ORG in place with red loctite and a center punch, shim the gas cylinder, drop in a Sadlak NM polished piston and NM OR spring guide to see if I can get some tighter groups. But sub MOA with Port surplus sounds pretty incredible. I'd like to know how you achieved that. I'm guessing it's probably not a Springfield.

 

[SR420]

It's my CQB 16 type SEI, their 16.25" barrel on my Poly Tech receiver with a mixture of SEI, USGI, and Poly Tech parts. I've seen the same accuracy with the same ammo fired from the same rifle in 3 different stocks. Here it is in the Rogue, right before I switched back to the Blackfeather. The last shot went wide because of a light end cap strike. I installed the wrong DC Vortex on the GLFS-D-16, and it was working loose.

 

[Tucker 1371]

I suppose you put that one together just right.

Do you notice a difference when you adjust the ORG on your Blackfeather equipped rifles? I remember that being the more difficult part of the install process and wondered if it was really worth the trouble.

 

[SR420]

I had quite a bit of experience installing rifles in the Rogue by then... it was tight.

I have not made any adjustments to the Blackfeather ORG, not yet.

 

[Tucker 1371]

I'm not sure what part of installing the Rogue that I screwed up but I took a shot on a deer last year that I was pretty confident about, maybe 100 yds, and my zero had shifted two feet low. Hit her in the leg and then tried to chase her down, with no luck. Blew my mind to see a 3 legged deer hop a 4 foot high cattle fence. Still feel pretty guilty about that one.

 

[mavracer]

Really?

Yes, my 308 AR has a total cost of $1,379.15 before optics and was assembled in about 2 hours with cheap BUIS and would do MOA after mounting the scope on her maiden trip she did a bit over 2" @ 300yards and that's not a get lucky with 3 that was 10 rounds.
It cost 200 less than my SA loaded did that would only do ~2" at 100 on a good day.

 

[SR420]

The rear bracket would sometimes not fit perfectly in the track on the side of the receiver, or the track on the receiver was not in spec. Either way, it would cause accuracy to be off. We both learned that the bull pup conversion kit was cool, but not all that practical.

For me; the SAGE, the Blackfeather, and tight fitting USGI synthetic stocks have proven to be the best general purpose stocks for my money. I have not tried a carbon fiber stock like yours, but I have read some good feedback on them.

 

[NoirFan]

So, this is one of the few (maybe the only) M14 aftermarket stocks I actually like, because it actually looks like it was designed this way from the ground up. All the other ones, especially the EBR stocks, look like what they are: crude stop-gaps bolted together to fill a need in the military armory. This one looks like it came this way from the factory and I bet it shoots great.

That said, I would never do this kind of mod to my M1A scout because it seems counterproductive. It seems like spending a ton of effort to take away the M1A's chief advantages (the iron sights, classic looks) and going down an upgrade path that runs into all it's weaknesses (not modular). If I want to play on the tactical side, there's stuff like the RFB or the S&W MP10 - all the rails and black plastic you could want straight from the factory. Not trying to bust your balls cause I do like it, but it's not how I would spend my own time and money.

 

[SR420]

Not intending to burst your thought bubble, but the bull pup is the oldest design.
The SAGE EBR is as you say, and the Blackfeather is the only modular option out there.

 

[COSteve]

As Kraigwy said, "I think, being old fashion I'll leave it as is."

 

[SR420]

For me, leaving it as is would mean leaving it all together.

I'm thankful that I'm not forced to leave it as is.

 

[agtman]

Ain't Heavy, It's my Bro'

Actually, this "semi" E2, even with the old-school mil bipod, isn't nearly as heavy as these M1As with overly-weighty railed stocks with heavy optics, flashlights, etc.

 

[highpower3006]

I'm a wood and steel kind of guy. I have had mine for many, many years and have yet to develop an itch to change it.