Looking to get into long range target shooting. Caliber decision?

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MissBehavin

New member
7mm Weatherby Wildcat

I was shooting my 7mm Weatherby Wildcat for long range. Semi retired it now owing to cost of ammo and the recoil. My new Ruger Precision in 308 will be arriving next week. Can't wait to mount my Zeiss 6 24 50 scope and hitting the range. I also shoot a Remington R25 in 308.
 
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tric3imagery

New member
Congratulations on your new wife,plus she shoots, Yes mine wants a 380 because slide racks so easily, I trying to get her in 9mm as she doesn't mind shooting it,just it's to hard to rack,I reload a whole lot of 9's do not want to do 380's
 
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nhyrum

New member
She didn't shoot till I made her come with her brother who just finished building his first AR. She loved it. I think my first handgun will be a sig p220 Stainless in 10mm. Just talked to the firearms manager at my local store and he said his sig rep promised double stack in the 10 by the end of the year. I'll probably get the wife a 380 or 9 glock around that time. Something cheap that she can handle.
 
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Nathan

New member
It really comes down to you need a .600 BC with a muzzle velocity from 2900-3200 fps. We can debate this, if you like, but that is my opinion.

Calibers under 6mm lack the BC to be predictable in the wind. Calibers over 6.5 usually recoil too much in a rifle under 12 lbs. You can get to 30 cal at ~15 lbs, but over 30, usually takes 25 lbs to be reasonable.

Now, how do you get accuracy.....good brass. Seriously, good brass is key. Good brass can be found in the 6.5 creedmor, the 308 win, 6.5 X 284, 30'06, 300 win mag, the WSM and the 404 jefferies.

To me, the easiest round that fall in or close to these parameters are 6.5 creedmor, 6.5 X 284, 280 Ackley, 300 WSM, and 300 Win Mag.

Controlling recoil is all about weight and muzzle devices....a Mercury recoil reducer could be added to the stock, but the are not widely used.
 
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Road_Clam

New member
I shoot 600 yards weekly at my club. Any 69+ gr 223 , or any .308 is perfectly acceptable. Stretching a .308 out to 1K get a bit more challenging. Yes a .308 can get to 1K but you will need a 26" barrel and velocities up in the 2600's to consistently ensure you don't go transonic with your bullet. I took the Sig Saur "reach for a thousand" instructional class and I used my .300 win mag and had NO problems at 1K and the 300WM and a heavy 208 gr bullet slices through the wind excellent. The 308 guys were experiencing some inconsistencies especially the guys with shorter <20" tactical barrels. My .300WM is your basic R700 with a heavy Sondero 26" barrel , Bell and Carlson Tac A5 stock, and a 8-32X50 Sightron scope and a Witt machine brake. Nothing fancy done accuracy wise , just a good powerful hammer reachig out to 1K that is fairly easy to shoot. The 6.5 CM seems to be gaining huge popularity at my club for mid to long range shooting. I shot a 6.5 and they are a dream to shoot, flat, fast ballistics and mild recoil. Here's a pic of my R700 .308 Varmint :



and my R700 .300 win mag :

 
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nhyrum

New member
Yeah that explains why i can't seem to find it anywhere.

The 5r is basically a factory "slightly worn" barrel? That's what I gather from internet searches
 
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emcon5

New member
It really comes down to you need a .600 BC with a muzzle velocity from 2900-3200 fps. We can debate this, if you like, but that is my opinion.
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Nonsense. It is nice to have, but you don't "need" either of those, particularly the velocity. All that will do is shorten your barrel life.

A higher BC bullet will not make you a better long range shooter, or help you better read the wind. What it will do is lessen the consequences caused by reading the wind (and compensating with hold or a sight adjustment) wrong.

Reading the wind is really all that matters in long range shooting, and all the big magnums or hot 6.5mm rounds will do for you is be a little more forgiving when you mess up your wind calls.

For example, shooting at 500 yards, when you call the wind is 60º at 8mph, but it is really 90º at 12, how bad do you miss?

At 500 yards with a 6.5 (140 SMK @ 2800) you are off by 1.5 MOA, which is just under 8 inches. A couple of extreme examples for comparison (which I have wind dope sheets worked up for) are the 30-06 150 FMJ, and .223 55gr FMJ. For the same error, the .30-06 will be off by 2.3 MOA (about a foot) and the .223 will be off by 3.1 MOA (~16").

Using the MR-65 500 yard target, if you held and broke a perfect shot, the 6.5 would still be in the 10 ring. The .30-06 would be in the 9 ring, and the .223 would be in the 8 ring.

Also, for "long range" target shooting, 500 yards is just the beginning.

If you get the wind right, the result is the same in any event, a hit.
 
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nhyrum

New member
emcon5 said:
Reading the wind is really all that matters in long range shooting, and all the big magnums or hot 6.5mm rounds will do for you is be a little more forgiving when you mess up your wind calls.
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That is what I'm going to focus on. Out here in great wonderful Wyoming wind is huge. Sometimes 40 mph wind. Not gusts, steady 40 mph wind. Obviously I won't shoot those days unless I'm feeling really confident or need to be shown exactly how bad I am.

Anther reason I went with the 6.5 is the BC. With calm days non existent basically (a calm day here is a 8-10 mph wind) I had to get something that would buck wind better.
 
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4runnerman

New member
Sweet rig there Road

While reading the wind is important it is far from all you need to do. There are way to many other things that need to come together also. Reading the wind is just one of them. Mirage is another very big killer out there, every bit as much as wind, most days-More then wind. From start ( sizing brass) to finish (Bullet hitting target) all things must come together. Hitting a 10 inch target from 600 yards is not really long range shooting, it is more of long range plinking.
 
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nhyrum

New member
Yeah, mirage will be tougher for me, not really sure what I'm looking for and how it affects the bullet
 
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emcon5

New member
Anther reason I went with the 6.5 is the BC. With calm days non existent basically (a calm day here is a 8-10 mph wind) I had to get something that would buck wind better.
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Right, but the point I was making is that you won't learn to read the wind any faster with a 6.5 than you would with a .308 or any other round. You will have to make a wind call in either event, and either put the windage on the scope, or hold off. The only difference is how far you need to hold off.

The argument could be made that the opposite is true, that you learn faster with a round not as good in the wind, because when you make a mistake in your call, the result is more obvious because the bullet moves more.

Yeah, mirage will be tougher for me, not really sure what I'm looking for and how it affects the bullet
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Mirage doesn't effect the bullet at all, it effects your sight picture. This is where a good variable scope comes in, usually on a really bad mirage day, you back off the power a bit you can see the target a little better.

On the other hand, Mirage is your best friend for reading the wind, because mirage never lies. Wind flags will tell you what the wind is doing at the location of the flag. However wind flags are rarely exactly midway between the rifle and the target, so what the wind is doing where the flag is may or may not have anything to do with what the wind is doing where it matters to you, particularly where there is terrain.

It was a few years ago, but at a match at Sacramento Valley, three flags showed three different things, If I remember correctly, the wind wasn't very strong, and one flag was quartering left, one was quartering right, and one was 90ºright. My scorer even joked about it, "Flags are a lot of help, huh?"

Mirage is always right where you want it, directly between you and the target.
 
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Road_Clam

New member
I rarely have to deal with mirage at my 600 yd range as there is always some varying directional wind. I get mirage more from shooting my 300 win mag or my 308 in the summer heat coming off the barrel. Shooting 69gr 223 in the wind gets real tricky as the wind at my 600 blows in all directions so I try to avoid 223 on windy days. I try to base my hold over on the 500 yd flag even if the pit, 200 and 300 flags are in different directions. The experts say the 500 yd flags tend to have a larger percentage of impact on pushing your bullets (but not always). Precisely reading the wind is what sets the amateurs from the masters. I am humbly just an amateur... LOL
 
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Nathan

New member
Nonsense. It is nice to have, but you don't "need" either of those, particularly the velocity. All that will do is shorten your barrel life.
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The reason I said .600 BC at 2900-3200 fps is for the reasons in your post. The other thing is, like another said, wind can be 20 mph plus out west!

The reason my upper limit is 3200 fps is to reduce throat erosion. I think my ideal is more like 3000 fps.
 
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Jimbo-Indy

New member
Regarding the Savage 12FV in 308:
It's a Cabella's exclusive. Savage made a special run for them. I recently picked one up. They had to have it transferred from another store but no extra charge. I'm just getting started in the long range myself but the Savage seems like a good starting point. The stock is a little light but does have aluminum blocks. Will be replaced as $ allow. AccuTrigger isn't bad for now. My technique needs some work but the 12FV did put 3 shots into 3/4" @ 100 yd on my first outing with 5 shots into 1 3/8". I think the last 2 were my fault. Ammo was of the shelf Federal Match w/ 168 SMK. I'm saving brass as I reload anyway, just need to buy some dies.
 
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nhyrum

New member
I was talking to a buddy and he said he has a few friends that have savage's and all their guns didn't last 1 deer season before the barrel started peeling up.

Anyone have issues like that? Would glass bedding help?
 
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4runnerman

New member
Got 9 Savages, I can guarantee you they have more rounds down them then any of your buddies. Not a lick of problems with any of them. Savage barrels are all free floated. Funny thing about bedding- In certain cases it will make your gun shoot worse. Glass bedding is usually only if you have accuracy issues, if you don't why waste time bedding?.
 
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oldmanFCSA

New member
I use my Armalite AR-50.
By using the weight and the very efficient muzzle brake, recoil is similar to a 243 or a 20 gage shotgun.
By reloading and properly selecting your projectile, distances of over 2 miles can be achieved.
I was sick last year and did not shoot the "King of 2-mile" event sponsored by the Fifty Caliber Shooters Association, but here is the link - www.fcsa.org - it may re-direct you.
In testing, I was able to push a 800 grain brass solid near 3200 fps using coated bullet/barrel technology - don't try without serious research first and yes I did damage my rifle's throat.
Goal is to reliably hit a 1 MOA target at 2-miles = 36"Dia steel plate at 3520 yards.
Shoot occurs at NRA Whittington Center near July 4th at Raton, NM.
See you there !!!!!!!
 
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nhyrum

New member
2 miles is a little intense for a guy who has never shot past 200 yds... But thanks for the invite! That's one helluva shot!
 
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