Looking to get into long range target shooting. Caliber decision?

[nhyrum]

Hello all! New guy here.

I'm looking at getting into long range, 1000M+ shooting, starting small obviously. I plan on starting at about 300 yards. I just need to find a caliber. I was looking at 300 win mag, but a friend of mine said the recoil is worse than his Shiloh sharps 400 grain .45 and suggested a 308. Will a 308 reach beyond 600 yards? Once I get to/around 1000 yards I'll switch to a 338 lapua.

Is there's recoil of a 300 WM really that bad? Will a brake help? I'm looking at a Weatherby mark v or 700s

What are good optics? I'm looking at a night force for when I pass 700 yards but until I get to the point I can actually use a scope that powerful, I'm looking at a vortex viper hs.

 

[Hawg]

When I was doing it(informally) I was using a hot loaded 30-06 with a custom barrel and a very, very light trigger. Some of the other guys were using 30-338 or the non wildcat version the .308 Norma magnum. Then again some of the best shooters were using the 6MM Dasher. I think you're asking a lot for a factory barrel tho.

 

[emcon5]

If you have about 6 hours to kill, search this forum, titles only for "long range". There have been about 40 threads on the subject.

The short answer, 6.5mm is a pretty good sweet spot for long range shooting, decent velocity with excellent high BC target bullets. You get nearly equal performance to the .30 magnums with much less recoil/blast, usually more accuracy, and longer barrel life.

.308 will get out to 1000 with no problem.

Right now, if I was starting from scratch, I would look really hard at the Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[nhyrum]

Thanks guys

I must have been searching too narrow as I only got one hit of a kid wanting to hunt whitetail at 1000 yds...

 

[omgtkk]

What emcon5 said. A .308 will do what you want, but a 6.5 Creedmoor will do it better. The Ruger precision rifle is a great choice, but so is a Savage model 10 or 12 for significantly less money. You can upgrade to a chassis in the future as money allows. And most importantly, a quality scope that you won't break or immediately outgrow is going to cost much more than the rifle. My two bolt guns are Savage actions with stock barrels mounted in XLR chassis' with Vortex Razor scopes. One is a. 308, the other a 6.5 Creed. While my skills reading wind still leave a lot to be desired, on a calm day I can shift those rifles as well as anyone on the range
Welcome to the world of long range shooting. I hope you come to enjoy it as much as I have.

 

[Mobuck]

"Will a 308 reach beyond 600 yards? "

For a LONG time, the .308 was THE long range round of choice.
I have both .308 and 30/06 target rifles that will make the steel jingle @ 600 yards consistently. I had to give up the 300 Win mag because the recoil was more than I can handle any more.
Shooting long range isn't just about trajectory(the distance and drop is already known), it's about environmental variations-wind, temperature, mirage and such.

 

[kraigwy]

Yes the 300 WM is not bad with a brake. I use to shoot the Any-Rifle/Any Sight and Any-Rifle/Iron Sights with a Model 70 300 WM. It was tiring, I found, I could and did, shoot better 1000 yard scores with my M1A at 1000 yards.

The Brakes aren't legal in NRA Long range matches. But when I moved on and don't use my 300 WM in NRA matches, I put a brake on it and can shoot it all day.

You'll notice people are moving away from the Mags, the 6.5 seems to be dominate any more. The 6.5 Creedmoor is one of the top lines.

Even still, I found putting a brake on the 6.5 CM makes a lot of difference.

But still my primary LR round is the 308, since I got my DR badge I don't need to stick to service rifle so I went to my Model 70 Tgt in 308.

Its set up for either scope or irons, and I don't use a brake on it. That way I can shoot NRA HP with irons, and use either irons or glass (depending on the type of match) in NRA 1000 yards.

It even works for me in PR Matches. Plus it adds something (for me) to show up at a match with a rifle that's older then most of the shooters.

There are better LR rounds then the 308, but the 308 works and is often suggested for those getting started. If recoil is a problem you can use the 155 Palma bullets. The 175 gr bullets are the standard and will stay super sonic well beyond 1000, and can be loaded for gas or bolt guns (around 2600 fps).

Also I found the 308 is cheaper to shoot also.

As mentioned, learning wind, mirage, etc. is more critical then bullet choice. There are lots of opinions regarding caliber, all are good for the individual with that opinion. But no one can dispute that the most critical, regardless of bullet is fundamentals and the environment.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

At what distance are you currently proficient and what do you consider to be "proficient"?

 

[RC20]

Per above, and

I also think the 308 is a good starter in that regard.

Get a Savage 10 or 12 with a Varmint barrel (Cablessas has a 26 inch or a tactical 10T for a very reasonably price with the great accu trigger.

Get proficient in and by that time you are probably ready to change the barrel.

You can go a lot of routes with a barrel change, it can be done by you at home with a few tools, 308 will handle any case without a bolt heat change from 30-06 (you would be limited to single load in the 10 or 12 Savage).

You can get any price barrel and type for the Savage you want.

Stock depends on what you get, low cost Cabelas needs a better stock but you build up as you get ready.

At some point you may want to get a different mfg dedicated platform but Savage sure had an edge to vas choice and low cost for barrel change.

Optics are as or more important as the chassis, chassis come and go but good optic will move form one to the next.

I have recently got to shoot a Nightforce with their NC-2DD dot, amazing.

Looking to try other dots but that one was fantastic and no fade issue per my eyes.

the dot size grows or shrinks depending the power, we were at 25 and you could clearly see the dot inside the smallest ring. .185 MOA or something in that area.

while the nightforce is good its not the only one, more affordable might be Leupold and order direct as they can put the reticle of your choice on a scope and the price is minimal order from factory.

You do want one of the good optics not cheap ones of courese

 

[jmr40]

A lot of the effects of recoil is between the ears and for some reason folks get it in their heads that a 300 WM recoils a lot more than it does. With most loads from an 8 lb rifle,( that would be pretty light for a target rifle) you are looking at about 30 ish ft lbs of recoil. A 45-70 with hotter 400 gr loads is near 50 ft lbs recoil. Much worse than 300 WM. Add a heavy target barrel and more powerful optics and you'll end up with a 10+ lb 300 WM with recoil almost identical to a typical 7 lb hunting weight 308.

If you want to shoot heavy bullets with enough energy to take game at long range a 300 is a good choice, and recoil is very manageable as long as you aren't a head case.

But for punching paper a 308 or 6.5 would be even better. While 300 recoil simply isn't that bad, a 6.5 is about half, and the cost to shoot considerably cheaper even if you handload.

 

[RC20]

I am finding it pretty funny shifting between 308 and 30-06.

10 grs difference roughly (with my loads), the 30-06 seems like a monster 50 caliber now!

300 wm is a game gun, not that it can't do targets and even some reduced loads in it but you have the point that it takes more powder, costs more, bullets higher and to punch paper the 6 mm on up thorough the non magnum 30 calibers more better for that.

I guess there is 30 BR now, the slightly bigger hole wins in some matches, that's getting really really close.

 

[4runnerman]

6MM, Any of the 6.5's, 308, 260. IMHO- Stay away from the Magum Calibers as they are not as accurate and recoil is more then needed.

 

[nhyrum]

OK, so I think I'm going to go for a 6.5. It seems to be king from what I have read.

Honestly, I'm not really that worried about recoil. I feel that I could handle most anything. I'm not Mr macho but I have shot pretty big guns.

On the proficiency side of things. Honestly I haven't spent a whole lot of time working on proficiency I just have been lucky enough to make friends with people who have cool neat firearms and shoot them, like dragonovs, m1 garand, and other military collectables, along with the Shiloh sharps and 1887 Winchesters.

Mainly we go out into the desert where you can't see anything man made but the dirt road your on for as long as the eye can see and shoot at rocks and small puddles/streams at about 150 yards open sighted and just watching things go boom.

I plan on starting at 100-300 yard to get the basics down. When I can get sub 1/2 moa groups I'll move to the next 100 yards.

Also, looking at Ammo prices online 6.5 creedmore and federal Sierra matchking are around the same price, don't know what my local store will have though.

 

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

My advice: You're better off buying a 308 something rifle for the cost of its ammo alone. Especially if your a shooter having to rely on store bought ammo. 308s been around a long time and undoubtedly earned and deserves its reputation for being a distant shooter.
Creedmore's and those Blackout's? I'm kind'a hesitant about those cartridges and factory made weaponry in their availability being around long term? Two calibers I think that haven't captured the overall shooting public's buying interest~~ so far.
In the end its your call and money spent. Good luck with your purchase nhyrum.

 

[tobnpr]

My advice: You're better off buying a 308 something rifle for the cost of its ammo alone.

This.

OK, so I think I'm going to go for a 6.5. It seems to be king from what I have read.

Don't know about "king" (I own a .260)- but it's very capable and a good choice- when you're ready for it.

Your decision to go with a 6.5 chambering implies you've got a lot of disposable income... which if so, means you should start reloading, anyway.

If you don't, then plan on spending upwards of $150 on ammo every time you go to the range, because:

Shooting long range isn't just about trajectory(the distance and drop is already known), it's about environmental variations-wind, temperature, mirage and such.

It's ALL ALL ALL about trigger time and sending lead downrange.
Think you're going to get proficient sending 40 rounds once a month? Not going to happen. We never leave the house without 100 rounds for each of us. Don't always use them all- but we TRY to.

Five boxes of Hornady's Creedmore ammo will set you back nearly $150...

Fact is, there is absolutely no need for 6.5 until you get to at least 500-600 yards. Beyond 600 yards is another world... Once you master the basic skills- trigger control, respiration control, shooting form- you're ready to move to the 6.5.

Until then, you're better off shooting a LOT of Hirtenberger .308 for $.50 round.

Get a Savage 110 in .308. Good aftermarket stock and trigger if you can, and the best optic you can afford. When the time comes for 6.5, it's a simple barrel change-out.

Start out with 6.5 factory ammo as a new shooter- you'll be counting...
$1.50 into the dirt...$1.50 into the dirt...$1.50 into the dirt...

'Nuff said.

Good luck, as said- do a search, discussed here ad nauseum.

 

[nhyrum]

Thanks for all the help and sorry for "another one of those... "posts.

I definitely will start reloading. I have been highly debating about getting a 308 (or if I find one on sale a 300 win mag) AND the 6.5 relativity close together. I would love to have two separate rifles, which means, down the line if I want to shoot both, I need two sets of glass. But once I put my good scope on the 6.5 I'll get a cheaper scope and use it for either my wife to blow away milk jugs at 50 yards or bring it when I go shooting with the youth group I help supervise.

What are your thoughts on viper glass? One of those will probably be my first scope, so it won't need to go beyond 500-600 yards.

A little more on my shooting history. I shot nothing other than my dads .22 ruger standard once or twice (that's what I get for growing up on Seattle) maybe the occasional .22lr single shot bolt action such as the nra junior until i was about 17, then I started shooting 30-30(which I could hit 2x2 Steel open sighted at 300 yds) very little 30-06, 44 mag, 9mm and other various calibers, mainly rifles, but a few hand guns.

About 6 months ago I started shooting more(fast forward 7 years) 45-70, 7.62x54mmR, .40 and such, on a twice a month basis, but again only to see holes put in paper and to see big splashes when they hit water. Until this point I was only ever planning on having hand guns, as I saw no use for me, a non hunter(shhhhhhhhhhhh) to have a rifle.

About a month ago I saw a video of a guy shooting at 200 yards and making one hole in the paper. That was cool.

Me being a little extremist, thought l, "now what's the most extreme version of rifle shooting? Hmm... 1000 yard? 1500 yard shots? Now that sounds fun and something that takes skill. Almost anyone can pick up a decent rifle with decent optics and get 1 moa groupings(which is what I think I had been doing for a while)

So I want to start the long road to get to making consistent 1000 yard shots. What better skill to have in a Zombie Apocalypse than to be able to blow off a zombies head from a mile and a half away when everyone has to wait till they're at least 300 yds

 

[BoogieMan]

I'm also just starting out long range. Unfortunately the longest ranges where I live are only 600yds.
Regardless, after a lot of reading and searching I went with 6.5x55. Low recoil, long slippery bullets and the ability to load them out a bit farther than the crede. I will do my break in with ammo that's $15 or less for a box. Salvage the brass and reload. If the pp brass isn't consistent enough there are plenty of companies that make high quality brass and bullets.

 

[4runnerman]

You can always look at the 6MMBR by Savage. Very cheap to load and very accurate. I run mine out to 1400 yards. Handloading is a must for your best load.
As one person posted, it is not a real cheap hobby to get into. I shoot about 100 to 250 rounds a week between 2 different rifles. My BR gets a new barrel every year. Things to watch for if you do- Come early mid summer- Brass and Bullets are hard to find, suggest you load up during the winter to cover your summer fun. The bullets you need for long range shooting are also the same bullets everyone else needs, Load up. As for Glass- I run a Sightron 8-32 x 56 on my bench rifle. Very nice glass, tracking is awesome. I would not ( if you are going to stretch out to 1000 and beyond) recommend anything less then 32 power.

 

[nhyrum]

Things to watch for if you do- Come early mid summer- Brass and Bullets are hard to find, suggest you load up during the winter to cover your summer fun. The bullets you need for long range shooting are also the same bullets everyone else needs, Load up.

That is sound advice, I was planning on something similar.

As for Glass- I run a Sightron 8-32 x 56 on my bench rifle. Very nice glass, tracking is awesome. I would not ( if you are going to stretch out to 1000 and beyond) recommend anything less then 32 power.

I like the price of that a lot more than the nightmare I have my eye on

 

[T. O'Heir]

A great deal depends on the kind of long range shooting you're looking at doing. 300 yards is not long range in any discipline though. 300 is short range.
Some disciplines don't allow magnums of any kind. Costs more to shoot 'em too. Moreso with anything that comes from Lapua. .338 brass alone starts at about $50 per 20. Lapua brand brass runs roughly $3 each. And there are matches that don't allow scopes.
Recoil is subjective and is a lot different out of a hunting rifle than it is a proper target rifle.
Knew a guy, years ago, who regularly won DCRA 'sniper' matches for years with a custom built Win M70A .300 Win Mag. The rifle weighed 17.5 pounds. Not exactly a hunting rifle. Also as mentioned, the .308 has been used since the mid 50's as well. Not in hunting rifles either. Single shots, weighing 14/15 pounds with 155 grain bullets are used in Palma matches. None of those would make good hunting rifles though.
Lotta choices/options in target shooting. Probably best to go to a few local matches and see what matches are available, locally, before you run out and spend the rent money. And rummage around the NRA's site to find out what else is happening.