Loaded rifle rounds for the first time (223 Rem)

[Nick_C_S]

Problem Solved

You should get a VLD chamfer tool

snuffy, you are CORRECT.

When you were writing the above post, I was prepping more brass. Out of nowhere, I remembered that years ago I bought a VLD chamfer tool (RCBS). I don't even remember why; but I knew I bought one.

I thought that since it puts a "steeper" angle on the inside of the case mouth, it might help. So I searched for it - I couldn't even remember what it looked like. But I found it in one of my boxes.

I gave it a try and it WORKED. It has enough angle to allow the bullet to stay put, and upright. I even mocked up a few dummies with no trouble at all. Success!

I'm a happy man.

I think I'll for real load a few of these Sierra 1345's tomorrow. But first, I still have more cases to trim and VLD chamfer

 

[Metal god]

Cool would not have thought that was all that was needed . Nice to know

I'd still like to know those measurements

 

[Nick_C_S]

I'd still like to know those measurements

Neck O.D. after sizing = .243"

Neck O.D. after bullet seat = .246"

 

[Metal god]

and the inside diameter of the neck after sizing compared to the bullet which we assume is .224 ? I just want the problem to be something more then the angle of the chamfer

 

[Nick_C_S]

The bullet is .224; or so it says on the box (Sierra #1345). I didn't actually measure them. Sierra has been making top quality bullets for decades, so I'm going to assume they are the correct dimension.

In a previous life, I spent five years doing very intricate machine type work (it was for the DOD - I could tell you what I was doing for them, but then I'd have to . . . ). In this capacity, I learned that it is not possible to accurately measure the ID with standard calipers - not with something as small as the neck of a 223 Rem case.

Be that as it may, here's the measured dimension: .219" - which sounds right-ish. So I'm going to say that in this capacity, the calipers worked well enough. So that leaves an interference fit of .005" - which is a heck of a lot when one is trying to hand press (start the bullet) one object into another.

The bulge in the decap mandrel is .222". So I guess there's .003" of springback. Sounds about right too.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Brass Prep

Completed my 223 Rem brass prep this morning. These (89 ct.) are all trimmed, de-burred, VLD chamfered , and finally, SSN tumbled. In 48 hours they'll be dry and ready for loading.

I'm rather excited.

Looking forward to loading a few more, and then getting them out to the range.

This is all the 223 brass I currently have. I have close to a thousand factory units (Federal Eagle and Hornady) that'll eventually get discharged and put in the pipeline.

 

[Metal god]

I'm excited for you .

But back to the seating issue . Thanks for those numbers and i agree they are not unexpected numbers . I'd think a standard chamfer would work with only a .005 difference . I'm still thinking the seater stem/plug does not fit those bullet tips right and you were getting a little cant in the bullet while seating . When if i pull my stem out and manually place the bullet tip in it . It almost locks into place rather then swivel while inserted .

Ya ya I know , I need to get over it . The issue has been solved

 

[One hole]

I don't know if it will help but don't forget to put a little lube inside the case mouth. Also you might check to see if the expander plug is the correct size.

 

[jmorris]

I'm still thinking the seater stem/plug does not fit those bullet tips right and you were getting a little cant in the bullet while seating .

That's along the lines of what I was thinking with my question about die position.

If the seating stem is lower than necessary so the die is higher than it could be, the internal taper of the die isn't going to be as helpful as it could be at getting things in line.

 

[Nick_C_S]

If the seating stem is lower than necessary so the die is higher than it could be, the internal taper of the die isn't going to be as helpful as it could be at getting things in line.

I know that it's always best to incorporate as much of the die body as possible when adjusting for the seat process; but I don't know for sure that I've done that in this case.

Thanks for the heads up.

I'm going to load a few more rounds today or very soon (no hurry since the rain doesn't seem to want to let up any day soon - I'm sure the range is closed). When I do get straddled up to the load bench, I'll double check this.

Thanks again.

 

[viper12161]

Thanks for posting about this. I just picked up a .223 bolt so I'm going to start loading up some .223 now. Will have to grab the VLD tool. I currently have the lee stuff that came with my press.

 

[Nick_C_S]

I loaded six more rounds today - this time, with the Sierra #1390 55gn Spitzer bullets - which was the bullet I was going to originally load, until the now-infamous flat-based bullet problem forced me to try boat tails.

The VLD chamfer made getting the bullet started this time easy. The bullet sat square atop the case mouth (instead of at about 45 degrees) and seating was a snap.

If the seating stem is lower than necessary so the die is higher than it could be, the internal taper of the die isn't going to be as helpful as it could be at getting things in line.

Before loading today, I checked this. The die body as set properly. I don't remember doing it because it's second-nature to me. From years of experience, I know to get started by screwing down the die body until it impinges on an empty case mouth (adjust from there, of course, depending on need).

So now I have twelve loaded rounds awaiting a dry day. It hasn't rained this much here in over 20 years.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Range Report

Got my AR out to the range today. I built it out in April last year and never fired it before today. (I built out two last April, actually. I already shot the first one. So now, both have seen one trip to the range.)

Fired 90 rounds, and the gun functioned flawlessly. Go it sighted in. First at 25 yards; then at 50. Super duper accurate. Using a rest, I knocked out the red dot bullseye with just a few rounds. It's amazing how easy these AR's are to shoot. This one has a HyperTouch trigger set at its most sensitive. It's really super sensitive and is a huge change for this revolver guy. But, after a couple slightly premature trigger breaks, I got used to it soon enough. (My other AR has a Giessle (?) two-stage trigger that - as of right now - I like better.)

But I digress; back to the discussion . . .

The twelve rounds I loaded (posts #1, & #32) all went bang flawlessly, sailed right through the bullseye, and cycled the rifle. They were light recoil rounds (starting charge weight, so, yes); noticeably lighter than the 55gn American Eagle FMJ's that I brought along. (For review, they were both Sierra 55gns - one was a "Spitzer blitz med vel," and the other was a HPBT.) I also shot some Hornady 55gn HP factory ammo - they were the strongest. Everything went bang. Everything cycled. Everything tossed the brass about 8' back, and about 15' right - pretty consistently.

All-in-all, a perfect day at the range.

Next step is to load 42 or 43 more rounds (whatever amount leaves 50 bullets remaining from the box of 100) of the Spitzers. The manual says to keep them under 3K f/s because they're lightly constructed "varmint" bullets - and my rifles are a really fast 1:7 twist. So I'll get those out of my inventory while perfecting my loading technique (I don't shoot varmints, so I don't really have a need for this specific bullet). I might up the charge a little from the book minimum of 23.3 grains AA2230 - we'll see. If I do, we're talking maybe 23.8 - keeping it modest.

 

[Metal god]

Im sorry but must have missed it . What powder/s are you using

 

[Nick_C_S]

I'm sorry but must have missed it. What powder(s) are you using?

Second to last sentence . . .

I might up the charge a little from the book minimum of 23.3 grains AA2230 - we'll see.

Accurate Arms 2230. Other than maybe H335, I have no desire to move to another propellant. It seems to suit my needs well. I also picked up some Sierra 65gn and Winchester 64gn bullets, and I have 2230 load data for them too.

Not sure how I want to phrase this, but: I only own these rifles for protection of family and property in the unlikely event of - uhh - a breakdown of societal order. So far, the "AR bug" hasn't bitten me. The two times out, I enjoyed shooting them - they're definitely fun. And I'm sure I'll take 'em out occasionally "just for a shoot" now and then. But I don't see myself going AR gaga at this point of time. What can I say, I'm just not a rifle guy.

Most likely, the next several times I take an AR out to the range will be to test my handloads. For handloading, the ultimate plan is to just create a recipe (or two) of hunting style bullets in the 65 grain weight range that shoot reliably, consistent, and straight, out to about 100 yards. I'm not asking for much at this point.

Like I said, the AR bug hasn't bitten me. In fact, so far, I prefer to shoot my one and only other rifle: my Marlin 1894 44 Mag (20"). That one, I've taken to the range four times, and have a whole 220 rounds through it. Just not a rifle guy

To get back to the subject: I don't want to get into a situation where I'm dealing with a bunch of different rife powders - I've been down that road with pistol. For rifle, I have only one load purpose; and so it follows, I need only one propellant. So far, AA 2230 seems to work just fine.

 

[Metal god]

Yeah i have my special rifle powders i use and pretty much stick with them as well . I had been loading the longer extruded powders like IMR 4064 & 4895 but recently started trying the shorter cut powders like AR-comp and IMR 8208xbr . They meter much better and i can acually throw those powders . 4064 & 4895 do not metter well and I weigh every charge with those . I use those for high accuracy target loads so I'd be weighing each charge anyways .

That accurate powder I've never used but do use A LOT of H-335 . H-335 will be one of the first to go in your breakdown of society. I have my few secret powders i don't use really but I've worked up loads using them . These powders tend to be the last to disappear in shortages so i made sure i have data already work out if need be .

 

[Nick_C_S]

These powders tend to be the last to disappear in shortages

The plan - at least - is to have the powder I need before the shortage.

Not wanting to swerve into politics, but it would seem there will be sufficient time to get everything done. Once I'm satisfied with my load recipes, I'll get a bunch of powder for it/them. Last time I was at my LGS, they had 1# containers of 2230, as well as a couple 4# containers. I just need to know that I can make good rounds in the 65 grain bullet range with 2230. I need that before I have the green light to buy a quantity.

 

[Nick_C_S]

A couple weeks ago, I loaded up 42 rounds of the Sierra 55gn Spitzer blitz bullets. I moved the charge up to 24.0 grains (from the minimum 23.3).

I took them out and shot them today. All went well. Cycled perfectly. Seemed accurate at 50 yards. With this, my confidence level of loading 223 Rem has increased quite a bit. I'm going to load the remaining 50 bullets of these that I have - same 24.0 charge.

And I'm also going to load up a few of the 64 grain Winchester bullets I got a few weeks ago.

All is going well with this endeavor. I'm happy.

 

[Unclenick]

Nick,

To answer one of your original questions, yes, the Lyman M die is one I use all the time for rifle. It can make a flare like an expander for lead bullets, but before the flare it makes a small step (see below). A good many we rifle accuracy nuts have started setting up a Lyman M die for jacketed bullets just to go deep enough to make the step, but not deep enough to produce a flare. The reason is that the step holds a bullet straight up and down as it enters the seating die. The result is a standard RCBS seating die, with its long, skinny threaded seating ram stem that flexes do the ram effectively floats into self-alignment, will then give you match level loaded cartridge concentricity. No special seating die required. Other seating dies also generally make straighter rounds this way.

The Lyman M die is highly recommended as an accuracy load too. As of this writing it is on sale at Midway for $17.49.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Unclenick,

A couple weeks ago, I bought a Lee universal expander. I used it on the above-mentioned set of 42 that I loaded. To compensate for the mouth expansion, I gave them a slight crimp. Anyway, as mentioned, they shot perfectly; at least as "perfectly" as I can tell or need.

Until I read your post, I did not know there were rifle case neck expander dies specific to caliber; much less, the Lyman M series expanders. I got on Midway and found the die you mentioned (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368112/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-22-caliber-short); as well as an RCBS unit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/735762/rcbs-neck-expander-die-224).

I'm rather partial to RCBS from a loyalty standpoint; because I'm so pleased with their products; and also because they're more or less "local" - about 40 miles from me.

I'm tempted to go ahead and get one of these two (the Lyman or the RCBS) units - even though I already have the universal. I'd like your opinion Unclenick. Will the universal that I already have work fine (seems to have)? Or is the Lyman M capable of doing something the other two can't?