Is this an ND waiting to happen?

[Harley Quinn]

Ausserordeutlich

The Kali Kop was telling me that one of the things that happen quite frequently is the officer's are killed with their own gun.
So when fighting over the gun they can then drop the magazine and a feel better if they do loose it, they can then have some more time without getting shot with there own weapon.
Made sense to me.

HQ

 

[Lion In Winter]

Are we to assume the bad guy will be too stupid to pick up and insert a magazine? There a "reformed" burglar(he served a long sentence and is in his 70s now) mentioned in an east coast newspaper as being a member of Mensa.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Picking up the mag

Well I guess if he has incapacitated the officer, I guess he can do it. But if he takes time to pick up the mag., it might give the officer time to get a backup or do something else to save his hide.

HQ

 

[Ausserordeutlich]

Harley, using that kind of logic (illogic?), it's a good thing the guy has a job doing something. That "theory" is just about as stupid as it gets. Heard the same thing from a local deputy sheriff who's probably equally gifted as your KA cop, intellectually. My guy wised up and is now carrying a Glock. Maybe your guy will grow a brain.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Big battle with the courts now

The CHP are now allowed to go ahead and purchase the S&W that they ordered. But Sig has got them in a toe hold and wants to deny them the right to purchase the S&W.

They have taken them to Court because they did not get to bid on the extension the CHP wanted.
CHP did testing with the Glocks back in the early 90's and all of them failed and had many problems with the testing.

Glock said it was a set up, now it is Sig. claiming the same thing different angle.

The CHP are/were very happy with the side arm they were carring, so they ordered enough to give each officer a new one and then turn in their older one and keep the same gun design.

I understand the S&W are very popular in Europe. They certainly are the preferred pistol of the CHP.

Edit: Illogic? I don't believe it is of that thought at all. No mag No fire simple. It could present a problem for the officer if they activated it while shooting but I would think proper training and reflex would help big time. Not so with the BG. IMHO
HQ

 

[springmom]

XD is safe

I have absolutely no worries about the safety of my XD. The grip safety has to be depressed in order for the gun to fire. In order to holster the XD, hold the grip below the safety and put the gun in the holster. No problem.

I have TRIED to circumvent this safety, just to see if it could be done, when at the range. You cannot have it even part-way depressed and have the gun fire. The gun MUST be gripped so that the safety is completely depressed before the gun will fire.

So no, the XD is not more dangerous than the Glock; nor is it more dangerous than a gun that has a traditional safety/decocker either.

Springmom

 

[WhyteP38]

ALL firearms are potentially an ND waiting to happen. As HQ said, "Training is the trick."

Training on overall gun safety.
Training on the particular features and behaviors of the particular firearm you are handling.
Training on situational awareness.
Most importantly, training on engaging your brain-housing group.

 

[Hotdog1911]

A little off thread

The SA auto pistol concept is sound. The grip safety concept is sound. Is the idea of putting a cocked SA auto pistol, with no manual safety, in the hands of consumers a good idea?

Listen to a few consumer paraphrased comments :
'I tested the grip safety while sitting at the work bench. The striker didn't release; this is a good enough test for a holster use.'
"Engaged thumb safeties don't prevent NDs.'
'I holster a new way'

I laugh when the salesman says; with this bullet they don't stand a chance, you will be a better shot when you buy this-en-that. Fine. It's a free world.

Now, when the salesman tells me not to be concerned over the absence of the single most critial lever that has probably prevented more ND's than any other mechanical devise on a SA auto pistol, I'm just a little weary.

True. You need training. You need good training. You need to practice and update good training. You need to use guns with proven designs as they were meant to be used.

 

[snscott]

How long?

You need to use guns with proven designs

So, just curious, but how long does a design have to be out there in use in the real world before it is considered "proven"?

 

[Hotdog1911]

Where are they now?

Find a dozen gun rags from say 1999 and 2003. Start counting all the articles that say this is the pistol of the future. Where are those guns now?
Pay attention to recalls, warnings, model discontinueation, manufacturer reputation, parts availability of the guns you research.
1911's from 90 years ago still work. Glocks from 1983-4, still here. Almost every model Sig introduced over the years is still here. Beretta, no problem. Ever see any H & K imported into the U.S. ever loose value?

Proven designs are out there.

How many other companies have successfully copied above mentioned guns?

I don't help you make your money, so I am not telling you what to buy. I'm glad we have all kinds of pistols to choose from; the competetion keeps the prices down.

 

[snscott]

But, if we all limited ourselves to "proven designs" as per that definition, then we'd never see any new innovations in weapons because no one would buy and carry/use a new, "unproven" design pistol even if the gun mags came out and said how wonderful a new gun was. To "be safe", people would still wait until this new fangled design was "proven". But if everyone does that, how does the design ever reach proven status?

I would like to offer myself up as a test subject for all gun companies. Please send me two examples of every new firearm you develop (with plenty of ammunition and extra magazines) and I will shoot the heck out of them until they're officially proven. Two, because I need one for each hand.

 

[BerettaBuckeye]

Harley, using that kind of logic (illogic?), it's a good thing the guy has a job doing something. That "theory" is just about as stupid as it gets. Heard the same thing from a local deputy sheriff who's probably equally gifted as your KA cop, intellectually. My guy wised up and is now carrying a Glock. Maybe your guy will grow a brain.

Ausserordeutlich, please explain to me how it makes someone brainless to think a mag disconnect is a good thing in a "gun grab" situation? What I mean is if a LEO is fighting a bad guy for his own weapon ( the cop's gun) and can drop the mag to disable the wepon how is that bad? That scenario should allow the LEO to gain some distance and draw a bug while the bad guy fumbles for the mag. At least in my mind. Now granted, this scenario may happen so rarely as to be a near non-issue however if the cop feels more comfortable with this feature ( just in case or whatever ) why is he brainless? How is that different from anyone wishing to carry a gun that is know for having the potential to fire out of battery and KB? Or the same gun that has somewhat of a reputation for firing when reholstered for whatever reason? Both those negatives may happen so rarely as to be a near non-issue but they turn some people off to Glocks. So what? Carry what you are comfortable with. What I'm saying is someone is not necessarily "brainless" because they don't agree with your narrow point of view.

 

[Hotdog1911]

NDs and XD a year from now.

I just completed and deleted a very mean spirited, opinionated, piece on the future of Springfield's XD.

I have to always remember what Heston's attorney said to him in the movie, Planet of the Apes; "Be smart. Be quiet."

Good Luck.

 

[snscott]

Hotdog, could you please provide us with a scenario that would result in an ND if the person had an XD, but not if they had a Glock in the same scenario?

 

[CDH]

I see lot's of opinions here and a lot of misconceptions.

Some would be wise to review the link below to get a better understanding about the XD operation.

One quote from within that relatively long article:
"Ayoob has carried an XD all day tucked inside his pants WITHOUT a holster, yet he felt safe doing so because of the mechanical design of the XD. Most Glock fans, me included, would NEVER carry a loaded Glock without a holster. The grip safety is an excellent feature."

http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/xddasa.htm

and here's another review:

http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/SpringfieldXD9.html

Carter

 

[IM_Lugger]

I'm not a Glock fan and like XD even less, but IMO XD is safer than a Glock because of a the heavier trigger pull and the grip safety...

 

[buzz_knox]

Harley, using that kind of logic (illogic?), it's a good thing the guy has a job doing something. That "theory" is just about as stupid as it gets. Heard the same thing from a local deputy sheriff who's probably equally gifted as your KA cop, intellectually. My guy wised up and is now carrying a Glock. Maybe your guy will grow a brain.

Given the fact that there are confirmed cases where this technique was used (dumping mag during a fight and the BG being unable to use the weapon as a result), it might be good to pull back on the flames. You see, it's not illogical if it works. It gives them time to get to the backup weapon, which is the point of the operation. It's not a choice I would make, but I'm not in their position. Insulting someone over it is wholly uncalled for.