Is this an ND waiting to happen?

[Hotdog1911]

I'm missing something here. The Springfield XD is a single action pistol, right? And it has a grip safety akin to a 1911...also a single action auto. But the XD has no manual safety, right?

That means you carry it with an empty chamber; or you load the XD, cock the XD, and holster the XD....with no manual safety activated. Is this safe?

Revolvers, Glocks, Sigs, and Beretta's...double action. No manual safety no kidding. They are double actions yet how many ND's do we have with same by being alittle too quick in and about the holster? And XD comes on line as a single action...? I hope it's a long pull or new definition of SA.

No one is a bigger advocate than me when it comes to carrying loaded pistols in holsters. I shoot alot of IPSC and IDPA, (I Don't Practice Anymore). Springfield has done much for both. But this? Please explain. Thanks.

?

 

[redhawk41]

Ultra Safety Assurance

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/xd_010305/

 

[kansas45]

You are right about the XD's safety issue's. I was a little nervous about carrying my 45Tactical at first (I can't really "carry"it in Ks yet) but I think that if you keep your finger off the trigger you should be safe. Also you can draw the gun without engaging the grip safety in a normal situation so there shoudn't be any problem.
Just practice the safe gun handling rules!

 

[hksigwalther]

As noted by the link redhawk41 provided, the XD, with the striker (firing pin) "cocked", does not allow the primer of the cartridge in the chamber to be struck until 1-the grip safety is depressed (which activates the connection between the trigger/action bar with the sear), 2-the trigger safety blade is dpressed (which allows the trigger to move), 3-the trigger is fully depressed (which depresses the striker/firing pin block).

To stay safe with a round in the chamber, keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to shoot.

 

[res1b3uq]

To stay safe with a round in the chamber, keep your finger off of the trigger until r

I thought this was SOP for most any firearm. Am I missing something?

 

[Hotdog1911]

XD operates like a Glock does it.

If XD claims singal action internally only; but it shoots like a Glock exteranallywhile having the grip angle of a 1911, then they should call it XDG-11.

From the shooters point of view this SA and DA stuff is a play on words. I understand. "Look at our new Springfield...it's kinda like a Glock". Wow, another Glock imitation.

No problem with 'hot' & holstered double actions; or guns that operate very, very, did I say Glock, very similar to an already proven DA design.

"Try our new Ultra Safety Assurance doodad; why it will outwit the best of your local idiots". Homer says, "Beer".

 

[SgtRich]

From the shooters point of view this SA and DA stuff is a play on words.

It is not a play on words. With a Glock, you have to retract the striker approx. 40% of the way before the trigger action causes the striker to fly. With an XD, when the pistol is cocked, the striker is fully (well, actually 99% is what I read) retracted, making it a single action pistol. The trigger action is closer to a 1911 than to a Glock pistol. That's why, if you feel the difference between the trigger of a Glock and the trigger of an XD, IMO, there is no way that the Glock trigger can be made as smooth.

 

[snscott]

It sure seems to me from reading various online gun forums that some Glock owners like to deride ANY gun with a polymer frame as just another "Glock wannabe" that can't possibly equal the Glock or, God forbid, actually improve upon it. Because we all know the Glock dropped from heaven fully forged in perfect pistol glory from day one.

If this type of logic were applied to airplanes, we'd all still be flying around in Wright Brothers planes because everything that came after theirs were just "Wright wannabes". Oh, and by the way, Glock was not the first polymer framed pistol anyway, but that is another story. (Blasphemy! )

While the XD is classified as SA, you still have to move the trigger through a long DA-style pull and you can feel it start to stack right before it fires. So, just because the XD fully cocks the striker, I don't see how that makes it any more likely to have a ND than a Glock. On reholstering, if I keep my hand off the grip safety, NOTHING is going to accidentally get into the trigger guard and accidentally press the trigger and accidentally fire the gun into my foot -- unlike the famous online video of the police officer reholstering his Glock. However, in this same reholstering scenario, if I keep my hand on the grip safety -- well, then, basically, what I have there is a pistol that has the same chance to ND as a Glock. Both require full trigger pulls to fire. One has the additional grip safety mechanism. Doh!

 

[Harley Quinn]

XD is a good gun and safe

The way the XD is designed it is very safe. When holstering and using you get the feel that is necessary to make it as safe as it was ment to be.

When holstering the gun the web of the hand is not in as much contact making the grip saftey a working item. You are holstering the gun with more contact from the heel of your hand, plus the finger is off the trigger.

Good alternative for an extra safety on an already safe gun. They are as safe as any revolver without the grip safety.

The mistakes are human in nature. To over ride human mistakes, that comes with training. Problem is the civilian side of it, they don't train like the military or the LEO community, as a general rule.

I actually like the Glock trigger pull better.

HQ

 

[Boondoggie]

snscott - It sure seems to me from reading various online gun forums that some Glock owners like to deride ANY gun with a polymer frame as just another "Glock wannabe" that can't possibly equal the Glock or, God forbid, actually improve upon it. Because we all know the Glock dropped from heaven fully forged in perfect pistol glory from day one.

Just an observation, so you are saying that Glock paved the way for others to design a better pistol.....but based on Glocks. - OK almost like saying JMB paved the way for Glock my head hurts.....

snscott - Glock was not the first polymer framed pistol anyway, but that is another story.

True statement, but there is always two side to every story and yes this is another story.

I will agree that at first the XD system does seems unsafe, it's not for everyone, myself included. However, having said that, I will say that ANY gun is unsafe without the proper training and familiarity with that particular operating system, Glocks included. If you don't feel comfortable with it, don't buy it, get something that you are comfortable with. There really is no different between this argument and the one that has ragged on for nearly a century now involving the 1911 design, and how UNSAFE, cocked and locked carry is.

The problem with videos or stories of ND is that if you really study them, and I do mean really study them, in detail, 99% of the time, it doesn't involve the gun itself. I've said this before and I will say it again, guns are dangerous, they are designed to go band when you pull the trigger, if you break the first 3 safety rules and pull the trigger, there is likely to be a tragedy.

The XD system is no less unsafe then a Glock or a cocked and locked 1911 or HK. What is unsafe is the part that is connected between the floor and the trigger.

 

[rhgunguy]

The glock is just the same way. The only thing keeping it from going bang is the trigger.

If someone is careless enough to have an ND it does not matter what kind of gun it is.

 

[JohnKSa]

The glock is just the same way. The only thing keeping it from going bang is the trigger.

Not really. Even if all the safeties in Glock broke simultaneously, it would not go off--there is not enough energy stored in the striker spring until the trigger is pulled.

In the (admittedly terribly unlikely) event that the same thing were to happen to an XD (all safeties fail at once), it WOULD go off since the striker spring is essentially fully compressed any time a round is chambered.

IMO, adding the grip safety is a sufficient trade-off for this internal difference and I don't consider either gun to be significantly more or less unsafe than the other.

 

[IdahoG36]

It's pretty simple- If you don't think it's safe, don't buy one.

 

[Bullrock]

IdahoG36, It's pretty simple- If you don't think it's safe, don't buy one.

Exactly! I don't think they're safe!!! I don't intend to purchase one.

Winning a gun fight is not accomplished by speed alone, or accuracy alone, but by both and by being deliberate!!! Flick down the safety....

Here's something I found on THR. Some of you may have already seen it.

The most important lesson I learned from those proficient gunfighters was the the winner of a gunplay usually was the man who took his time. The second was that, if I hoped to live long on the frontier, I would shun flashy trick-shooting -- grandstand play -- as I would poison.

When I say that I learned to take my time in a gunfight, I do not wish to be misunderstood, for the time to be taken was only that split fraction of a second that means the difference between deadly accuracy with a sixgun and a miss. It is hard to make this clear to a man who has never been in a gunfight. Perhaps I can best describe such time taking as going into action with the greatest speed of which a man's muscles are capable, but mentally unflustered by an urge to hurry or the need for complicated nervous and muscular actions which trick-shooting involves. Mentally deliberate, but muscularly faster than thought, is what I mean.

Wyatt Earp

 

[dairycreek]

If you pull the trigger of a loaded Glock - it fires. If you fire the trigger of a loaded XD it won't fire unless the grip safety is depressed. That is a big, big difference and, for me, makes the XD much less worrisome than the Glock FWIW

 

[FirstFreedom]

It's safe for 2 reasons.

1. First the XD is no more a "single action" than the other allegation that a Glock is "double action". None of these pre-sprung designs are true single action, and none of them are true double action. The SA XDs are just a smidgeon past the halfway point to single action, so that's how they are classified. Glocks are just a smidgeon this side of halfway to single action, so that are classified as "double action". Artificial categories for these types. Thus they are all really in the same general category; neither fish nor fowl.

2. More importantly, if the holster covers the trigger guard, the gun can NOT fire, period. So yes, that means that in a quality gun, with a good sturdy holster, even a true single action is safe to carry with no manual safety engaged, IMO (many would disagree). Once it's out of the holster, then regardless of the system, the extent to which it is safe depends on whether your finger in on the trigger when you don't mean to fire (or not). This of course is dependent upon the safety between our ears.

P.S. As mentioned, if anything, the XD is safer due to the additional grip safety.

 

[JohnKSa]

The SA XDs are just a smidgeon past the halfway point to single action, so that's how they are classified. Glocks are just a smidgeon this side of halfway to single action, so that are classified as "double action". Artificial categories for these types. Thus they are all really in the same general category

That's not true. Other than being striker fired, the two guns are not in the same general category.

The striker spring (mainspring) in an XD is fully compressed when a round is chambered. That makes it a true single action since the trigger does none of the work compressing the main spring. There is no room for debate about this, and I have never heard any person who is cognizant of the internal workings of the XD attempt to make a credible case otherwise.

The striker spring (mainspring) in a Glock is compressed by about 60% of its length when a round is chambered. According to Glock that level of compression is insufficient to fire the pistol. It takes the action of the trigger to compress the spring the rest of the way to fire the pistol. I guess that saying it's "just a smidgeon this side of halfway to single action" isn't too far off base, but it's probably more accurate to say that it's "just a smidgeon past the halfway point to single action" given that the slide action actually compresses the striker spring a farther distance than the trigger does.

Neither one of these guns is an "ND" waiting to happen, IMO.

 

[Majic]

I'm missing something here. The Springfield XD is a single action pistol, right? And it has a grip safety akin to a 1911...

Yes you are missing something. A grip safety is a manual safety. Unless manually depressed the pistol will not fire.

 

[Hotdog1911]

Still not convinced.

When the shooter obeys all four rules all the time then safety is between ears. Period. That's how it should be.

Apparently the XD designers were imitating someone else's design while chasing a very specific group of civilian competition shooters.

At best I see a most unforgiving design. The XD takes advantage of the shooters safety obligation. DA's give the shooter the advantage of a long trigger travel; SAs have a active/manual safety. i.e. safety latch. Every shooter I know puts a good portion of his hand over the pistol butt while holstering. Therefore I don't have much confidence in the XD's (passive) grip safety. Since the lead portion of a ND is not limited to the offender, simply not buying a XD does not solve the controversial design issue.

 

[swingset]

When the shooter obeys all four rules all the time then safety is between ears. Period. That's how it should be.

Apparently the XD designers were imitating someone else's design while chasing a very specific group of civilian competition shooters.

At best I see a most unforgiving design. The XD takes advantage of the shooters safety obligation. DA's give the shooter the advantage of a long trigger travel; SAs have a active/manual safety. i.e. safety latch. Every shooter I know puts a good portion of his hand over the pistol butt while holstering. Therefore I don't have much confidence in the XD's (passive) grip safety. Since the lead portion of a ND is not limited to the offender, simply not buying a XD does not solve the controversial design issue.

What exactly is the safety problem here?

If you squeeze the trigger on the XD with the grip safety engaged, it goes bang.

If you squeeze the trigger of a Glock, it goes bang.

If you squeeze the trigger of a Beretta 92FS, it goes bang.

If you squeeze the trigger of a S&W DA revolver, it goes, well you know.

Why is the XD somehow more dangerous than these other guns?

Did the XD insult your mother or something?