I've been hearing rumors that Sig is going to end production of their 220 in favor of the 220R. Is there any truth to this? Do I need to run out and grab a 220 lest I be stuck with some mall ninja tacticool rail hanging off the front of an otherwise surperb piece of engineering?
Is the P220 leaving?
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Rainbow Six
New member
What is wrong with the rails? I don't like them because they're tacticool, I like them because they are useful. I love my weapon mount light.
I sometimes think the anti-tacticool movement is about as silly and unjustified as the tacticool movement is.
I sometimes think the anti-tacticool movement is about as silly and unjustified as the tacticool movement is.
rellascout
Moderator
All new Sigs in the P226, P220 and P229 lines will now have rails. They also will all have milled stainless steal slides. There will be no more stamped slides thus the P228 and P225 have been discontinued.
I personally do not like rails on my guns. I do not use them. I really don't care if they have them or not as long as they do not thicken the width of the gun. Unfortunately most of the time they do.
I personally do not like rails on my guns. I do not use them. I really don't care if they have them or not as long as they do not thicken the width of the gun. Unfortunately most of the time they do.
I wasnt real big on the rails either, but they are growing on me. It is nice to be able to pop a light on when you want to. If you want a new one without a rail, its going to be whats on hand at SIG or the distributor or whats around at the dealers. I tried to get my 229 without a rail, but they didnt have any non rails with night sights(they only had two left anyway).
They are also doing away with the P245, which I'm sorry to see go, but I believe SIG is coming out with a P240, which I was told is size wise, a P220 frame with a P245 slide. I guess we'll see.
They are also doing away with the P245, which I'm sorry to see go, but I believe SIG is coming out with a P240, which I was told is size wise, a P220 frame with a P245 slide. I guess we'll see.
Rainbow Six
New member
ulflyer,
I can understand not liking how they look if you're not going to use them. I'd agree that the non "R" P229 is sexier. If I didn't love my M3 light I wouldn't want it either from an aesthetic point of view. I'll live with the looks for the light though. Nothing like being able to clear a room or vehicle with a two handed grip on my pistol.
GunsnRovers
New member
Of course if your light is on your pistol, you have to aim your pistol to aim your light. What do you do if you need to keep you light on something that you don't intend to shoot? Then you're violating a tenet of firearms safety...
Just the other side of that coin.
AFAIK, the P220 without rail will be gone. I need to pick one up to go with my Browning BDA. Be nice if a CPO showed up locally...
Just the other side of that coin.
AFAIK, the P220 without rail will be gone. I need to pick one up to go with my Browning BDA. Be nice if a CPO showed up locally...
Rainbow Six
New member
Based on your comments I'm guessing you don't have much, if any training or real world experience with modern weapon mount lights. My issue M3 throws enough peripheral light that I can light up areas without pointing the pistol directly at anyone/anything other than the floor or ceiling. At the range when we do night fire one guy with an X200B can light up everyone's targets well enough for each officer to hit their respective targets without the one officer with the light ever aiming at anything other than his own targets.
With low, light colored ceilings a room can be lit up pretty well by an up turned light bouncing off the ceiling. Clearing vehicles can be done with the peripheral light as well, but I usually use a handheld flashlight on those anyway if I have time to grab one.
You don't have to violate the rules if you learn how to use the weapon mount light properly. Even the more focused X200A I had and sold had enough peripheral light spread to avoid having to aim directly at someone to light them up sufficiently enough to see whether they were armed or posed a threat.
Next?
ARRRRRRG!!!!!! I'm positive that its this line of thinking that is responsible for the death of anything that has ever worked well. It makes sense to continue production because I'd be willing to be that are more people that would prefer the non-rails than with. This kind of logic would mean that all 1911's should have front cocking serrations because those that don't want it shouldn't use it. That and the fact it didn't anwser my question.
My rant aside, so I guess my fears are correct that the 220 sans rails is on the way out?
rellascout
Moderator
They are not on the way out they are out. No more ae being produced. If you want one you have to go to the used market or find a dealer with a NIB in inventory.
PS if you are looking for one I have one I am looking to sell.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
PS if you are looking for one I have one I am looking to sell.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
GunsnRovers
New member
You can assume anything you want.
I didn't say you shouldn't have one and I didn't say it was useless, but it does mean you are turning your weapon into a flashlight which may not be the best answer.
I didn't say you shouldn't have one and I didn't say it was useless, but it does mean you are turning your weapon into a flashlight which may not be the best answer.
rellascout
Moderator
The CPO and used market a the right place to get a P220. That is where I got mine. I picked it up from Ron at Eagle tatical.
AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH. Oh wonderfull lets discontinue a 30 year old classic because it doesnt have rails like the 3 month old S&W MP. I dont like rails because they make the slide wider, snag on things, dont fit quality 220 holsters, and promote pointing a loaded gun at anything you wish to see in the dark. Rails will be a joke in 10yrs from now and we'll read about them in the gunrags about the time SIG introduces their brand new P220 Classic without rails and everyone will get happy and say "SIG listens to its customers". How can they ditch their heritage like that just to fit in? Is there anything wrong with a company having the same lineup for two consecutive years because they felt maybe they got it right? Sometimes I have no sympathy for the hardships of this industry, and am admiring Colt more and more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
High Planes Drifter
New member
I realy dont see the big deal with it. If you dont want to use the rail, dont use it. Carry a flashlight. Mount a cork puller under the frame so that you can open your whine with it.
Rainbow Six,
There are those of us who don't want to have to even expose their weapon just to use a flashlight. It isn't just about gun safety rules - it's about having the good sense to keep your weapon out of sight until drawing is warranted.
The rail crowd seems to forget that pistols are supposed to be simple, smooth bodied weapons designed for concealed carry. It seems absurd to me that while Clark and others are making money "melting" the sharp edges off 1911s, Sig is engaged in adding a sharp edged scope mount to their dustcovers.
The USP light mount was at least unobtrusive, but Weaver mounts seem custom designed to tear up holsters, waist bands and skin. Not to mention bright spots as the finish gets quickly worn off all the sharp high points.
Weapon lights have their place, but lightless pistols still make more sense for the majority of users. And even if you want a light, the Weaver rail is a terrible design for a pistol, being both sharp edged and overly wide.
There are those of us who don't want to have to even expose their weapon just to use a flashlight. It isn't just about gun safety rules - it's about having the good sense to keep your weapon out of sight until drawing is warranted.
The rail crowd seems to forget that pistols are supposed to be simple, smooth bodied weapons designed for concealed carry. It seems absurd to me that while Clark and others are making money "melting" the sharp edges off 1911s, Sig is engaged in adding a sharp edged scope mount to their dustcovers.
The USP light mount was at least unobtrusive, but Weaver mounts seem custom designed to tear up holsters, waist bands and skin. Not to mention bright spots as the finish gets quickly worn off all the sharp high points.
Weapon lights have their place, but lightless pistols still make more sense for the majority of users. And even if you want a light, the Weaver rail is a terrible design for a pistol, being both sharp edged and overly wide.
I believe SIG's main purpose for the rail was in response to requirements of government contracts more than anything else, but I'm sure the gaining popularity of them was also a consideration. If you look at almost all the major makers offerings these days, the rail is available on most models.
As far as holsters go these days, I order mine made for the rail, that way I'm covered, so its no big deal. The non railed guns work fine in the larger holsters, the railed guns dont fit, at least in most model specific molded holsters, made for non rail guns.
The rails on all my pistols do no extend beyond the edge of the widest part of a normal frame, other than at the dust cover, so they really are not "bigger" except for your holster.
I didnt really like the rails at first, but they do offer that ability to light or laser your gun at will. I understand what your saying about your scenario Handy, but that is only one small part of it. The gun is a lot more versatile to everyone with the rail there. You can still use your hand held, even with the light on the gun, depending on the situation and when you need your off hand for other things, you still have the light available, so there is really no wrong answer, unless of course, the rail itself is the wrong answer for you. In that case, dont buy one.
Gun rails or safety locks on guns. I wonder if the gun manufacturers sit in staff meetings and say, "Geez, will we ever build a gun to satisfy EVERYONE?" Gunowners are starting to sound like golfers...my clubs don't fit me...the heads are too small...the angle is not right, etc. Quit whinning and concentrate on shot placement, breathing, stance, etc. My new Sig has a rail. Not keen on it, but I'm more concerned about the accuracy and reliability.