is a mini 14 good enough?

[thesheepdog]

Get a new mini with a strut. I shot an appleseed with my mini that had XS sights, and due to a poor fitting of the sights, i could only qualify for Marksman.

This was also 3 years ago, before i had my M4

 

[Big Shrek]

I've seen plenty of ARs at the range and have seen this mythical accuracy to be just that, a myth. The only way to get that supposed accuracy is to use handloads or very high quality ammunition and a quality AR. A rack grade AR won't cut it unless you get lucky.

I agree, but a rack-grade AR will still be better than a mini-14

 

[Bamashooter]

my mini would shoot 2''-3'' out of the box, with remington and pmc bronze ammo. after 200 dollars in upgrades it will shoot 1''-1.5'' groups with the same ammo. right around an inch consistently with my 60gr. handloads. no shot stringing and 100% reliable. i have 700 dollars invested in it and i would put it up against a 700 dollar AR anyday. i will work fine in an appeseed shoot. they are better rifles than some people say or think.

 

[Old Grump]

The one I shoot regularly would be fine out to 200 but barely, its old like me and wasn't designed for sniping but sure good enough to shoot coyotes across a 40 acre field.

So the answer is depends on your gun and most definitely the ammo you are using. I am still shooting up Milsurp dating back to the early 70's and its dirty stuff. Adequate for my purposes but I wouldn't want to do an Appleseed with it.

 

[rickyrick]

I re-read the question...

After squinting, I did indeed find some vague writing between the lines, and the poster actually wanted to ask if an AR was good enough for appleseed...which is ironic because he already owns one

Mini is good enough for a carbine....want to shoot 500+, get a rifle.

 

[demigod]

I agree, but a rack-grade AR will still be better than a mini-14

End of story. I own both, and as a general rule, the Mini can't even hang with the AR. There may be some exceptional shooting minis, but those are the exception, NOT the rule.

 

[hoytinak]

I agree, but a rack-grade AR will still be better than a mini-14

See and I've got 2 AR's that don't see much range time as I prefer my Mini-14.

 

[azredhawk44]

I am hoping to attend an appleseed riflemans boot camp with my son this winter. there is a long range component to the training that will stretch us out to 500 yards. I plan to shoot it with either my fal or my ar. My son however wants a mini 14 for the event. My hesitation is that the rifle may not be accurate/consistent enough to do the job. Does anyone here have any experience with one beyond 100 yards?

Depends on the Mini.

My dad has one of the 1970's minis. 1:12 twist, I believe. Good for 55gr and lighter bullets. Not good for 69 or 77gr bullets that you'll want out to 500 yards. Unsure how it might do with 62gr bullets.

The newer ones will shoot heavier bullets better. And be more accurate in general.

My dad has yet to attend an Appleseed event, but I did get him to finally attend a High Power service rifle event a few months ago. No prior training on sling usage or positions other than the 20 minute primer I gave him prior to the event. He shot a 250 out of 500 possible points, but he had a really hard time keeping rounds inside the 6MOA aiming black at 200 yards (this match was all at 200 yards). I'm willing to bet that the bulk of the missing points are attributable to him rather than the rifle. A good shooter (NRA-HP service rifle, or Appleseed Rifleman) should be able to shoot a 210 on an AQT, or a 400 on a 50-shot match, using that mini.

As far as buying a new Mini expressly for the event... rifles are personal things. Some folks REALLY like Minis. I'd personally choose an AR over a Mini if I were deliberately buying a rifle to attend an RBC. The mag changes are faster and easier, and the potential accuracy of the platform is higher.

If a mini will make him HAPPY as a rifle owner, then get a Mini and learn to shoot it at the RBC.

If you're splitting hairs over a $100 difference between an inexpensive AR and a Mini, then get the AR.

 

[rickyrick]

I agree on the magazine. if you miss the little thing pokin' out in the magazine well.....you get to try it all over again..

if you get the mini definitely practice with the mags

 

[GONIF]

A mini is a joke.

 

[thesheepdog]

I wouldn't recommned the Mini-14 for appleseed. The object is to become a Rifleman!! The one i went to, a lot of guys became riflemen with AR's, M1A's and Garands. I would have been with them, but I had a loose rear sight issue on my mini-14, on top of it being the most inaccurate rifle on the range.

 

[Sarge]

I would have been with them, but I had a loose rear sight issue on my mini-14...

Odd you should mention that. I took my 580 out for a few rounds this AM and after the first couple of decent, offhand 50 yard groups I was, all of a sudden, shooting sloppy ones. I was shooting w/o prescription lenses, the heat/humidity was miserable and I figured it was just me. I shot my G23 a few times and called it a morning.

But after bringing the rifle inside, I noticed that the rear sight was flopping around like a loose tooth. The allen screw that holds the aperture assembly had worked loose.

Now that's not a big by any means, but it annoys me because the rifle was supposed to go back in the trunk of my assigned unit and head back to work tomorrow. Now I'm going to have to loctite it and recheck zero before it goes back to work.

This 580 will group pretty well, but gremlins like this are at least some of the Mini's reputation for inaccuracy. I suspect if they had better sights on them a lot of folks would shoot better with them. The triggers on them are nothing to write home about either, but there are ways to cure that bug as well.

 

[smoakingun]

ok, here goes, i do own several rifles that would be more than adequate for an appleseed, ar, fal, garand, etc...i plan to shoot my ar. my son wants to shoot the event with me, and since i plan on making sure both my kids grow up and leave home with a pistol and some kind of battle rifle, i proposed to build him an ar, but he wants a mini 14. the event we are shooting is a riflemans boot camp, not a regular appleseed weekend event. the boot camp is a week long with a rimfire/ 25yd component, and a long range component that will stretch us out to 500 or 600 yards depending on where it is held.

 

[jmr40]

I say take what you have and do your best.

I'd never buy another Mini-14 now that AR prices have become more reasonable. www.cdnnsports.com is selling new S&W AR-15's right now for $599 and Smith is offering a $100 rebate. That will get you a quality AR for at least $100 less than the Ruger.

 

[rickyrick]

If he wants a mini get the mini, make sure its the new version, he won't be disapointed.

I wave the mini flag, however, I couldn't honestly recomend it for 500 plus yards.

its not an AR, doesn't feel like an AR, Kinda clunky, has a lot of muzzle rise.,but, I still love mine.

 

[riverwalker76]

Everyone knows I love my Mini and would never tell anyone NOT to buy one. However, in the 500 yard range .... you are betting on pipe dreams unless you are 100% proficient with the Mini-14. I'm not trying to discourage your son ... it's just that the rifle has it's limits, and those are close range .... to 300 yds. MAX in my opinion.

 

[Ignition Override]

How about the number of rounds which Appleseed instructors want people to use over two days?

I've read on their website that they prefer that people bring about 400 rds., unless I misunderstood.

This is why a very large fraction reportedly attend with a semi-auto .22 for a high rate of fire during some exercizes.
This not only helps avoid the cost (in a prolonged, deep recession), but reduces shoulder wear/tear from .308, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62x54R, 8mm Mauser ammo etc.
None of these hurt my older, skinny shoulders unless bent over.

 

[blume357]

Few items...

the OP is miss informed.... I'll bet anything the Appleseed he goes to will be shooting at 25 yards... Standard AQT target with varying sized silhouettes on it. A mini-14, even an old one, will do fine at this distance..

what is more important is the sight system on the rifle.... and practice and being able to shoot several hundred rounds through it in a day.... and being able to easily adjust the sights for the 25 yards.

It's going to be tough in Florida in the Summer or even early Fall. Personally I would take a standard 10/22 over any other choice for my first day out... if I did anything I would put tech sights on the 10/22.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

With a MATCH AR they often couldn't get get less than 1.5 unless they used a quality ammo.

Let's look at the data from the links you provided:

They shot a five round group of 1.64" using Guatemalan 55gr 5.56mm surplus and a five round group of 1.48" using Winchester Q3131A (Winchester's 5.56mm version of M193 ball). I've shot thousands of rounds of both and both are "quality" ammo only in the sense that they are reliable and shoot about as consistently as you can expect from military ball.

In addition, they shot a 1.25" group with Israeli IMI 2002, and a 1.125" group with South African M1A3 - again, both 55gr FMJ ball plinking type ammo.

The statement "less than 1.5 MOA is average for a run of the mill M16" is probably a little over the top; but it isn't too far off the mark based on the links you provided.

 

[thesheepdog]

But after bringing the rifle inside, I noticed that the rear sight was flopping around like a loose tooth. The allen screw that holds the aperture assembly had worked loose.

That's exactly what happened to mine. I didn't have loc-tite with me at the range, nor did the armorer, so i was screwed. About every 50 rounds, i had to re-tighten the sight. But hey, I shot well enough with a loose rear sight to qualify for Marksman. Given the handicap I was experiencing, i think i shot relatively good.

Several months after Appleseed, i put a red dot on my mini-14, then accuracy was not an issue out to 100 yards or so.