Interesting Ron Paul Factoid

xnavy

New member
Ron Paul continues to make claims such as he will get rid of the IRS, CIA ECT.... and yet does not say how he will go about it. His arguments have all the substance of a democrat, he says what he thinks people want to hear but offers no solutions or details on how he will accomplish them.

Ron Paul follower - Ron Paul will get rid of anything that is unconstitutional

Joe Blow citizen - How will he do accomplish that?

Ron Paul Follower - Ron Paul will get rid of anything that is unconstitutional
 

Thumper

New member
Personally, I've worked in campaigns and been involved politically for over 25 years, and that's with the two largest parties. My intimate knowledge of those parties is but one of the reasons I'm supporting Congressman Paul.

You'd think someone with your supposed political prowess would abstain from throwing out an appeal to authority fallacy, but hey, maybe you just move in different circles than I.

Tell you what, maybe we can find common ground here: What do you think Ron Paul's odds are to win the Republican Primary? Please answer as honestly as you're able.
 

Pat H

Moderator
You'd think someone with your supposed political prowess would abstain from throwing out an appeal to authority fallacy,
Wrong.

but hey, maybe you just move in different circles than I.
Without doubt.

Tell you what, maybe we can find common ground here: What do you think Ron Paul's odds are to win the Republican Primary? Please answer as honestly as you're able.
I'll treat that as yet another rhetorical question.
 

Bruxley

New member
Your asking for answers and reason from someone unable or unwilling to do so.

Pat H:
Personally, I've worked in campaigns and been involved politically for over 25 years, and that's with the two largest parties. My intimate knowledge of those parties is but one of the reasons I'm supporting Congressman Paul.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2468205&postcount=79

And last, since I had more than 30 years in the military, I can tell anyone here that it's one of the most socialist entities with which the US government is directly involved.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2467509&postcount=29

Assuming the earliest the 30 years in the military could have started is age 18, that makes 73 yrs old minimum. Something I'm just realizing.

I for one am going to consider that next time I ask for reasonable answers and such.

As I've said before, Pat is a bit of a novelty around here. Just let him be.

It's just Pat.....
 

FirstFreedom

Moderator
What's the constitutional support for promoting shrimp? The Commerce Clause?

Because, shrimp can swim up the coastline, and pass over into another state's waters (Louisiana, Miss, etc.). Interstate commerce. :)

Bruxley, what makes you think that Pat could not have "worked in campaigns" and "been active politically" at the same time he was in the military?

he says what he thinks people want to hear but offers no solutions or details on how he will accomplish them.

So what? The other candidates say things that people DON'T want to hear, AND also offer no solutions or details. Which one do you think at least has a CHANCE to promote change toward what we want - the candidate who DOESN'T say they'll do what we want, or the candidate who DOES? So Ron Paul is a step in the right direction at least. Lesser of evils. Why choose the greater of evils?
 

Bruxley

New member
Good point FF. I read it that he was working in campaigns on both sides and that is how he was intimately knowledgeable as stated. But it is true that he could have only worked in these campaigns briefly and has less then 25 years of claimed intimate knowledge.

In reality I was reaching for an understandable reason for a lot of his 'flyer' posts. Old age seemed like it would fit the bill. Maybe a browse through his posts and you'll know what i mean. Just a few primers:http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2467344&postcount=85

I'm sure Pat is a peaceable enough guy. Just gotta shrug at some of the posts thats all.
 

Crosshair

New member
Ron Paul continues to make claims such as he will get rid of the IRS, CIA ECT.... and yet does not say how he will go about it.

It's not like he can have detailed plans written up. Besides, he would have to contend with congress and they would likely stop some of those efforts or require that they be rewriten. Him outlining how he was going to eliminate those would be like Bush I, "Read my lips, no new taxes." He can't give an outline because he doesn't know the climate of the congress that would be in place should he be elected.

On that note, where is Mrs. Clinton's plans of grandeur?
 

WhyteP38

New member
You simply have no idea what level of political expertise and savvy is represented by Ron Paul supports. Personally, I've worked in campaigns and been involved politically for over 25 years, and that's with the two largest parties. My intimate knowledge of those parties is but one of the reasons I'm supporting Congressman Paul.
LOL!
 

publius42

New member
Mr. Paul take a fervent stance that mandates if it isn't in the constitution, then its not constitutional. As such, he should take no part in earmarking funds.

I've heard no answer that addresses this fundamental contradiction.

He also should have nothing to do with a bill that says a partial birth abortion is interstate commerce, yet he voted in favor of the bill.

I thought you were a practical kind of guy, and as such you would like the fact that Ron Paul is willing to compromise on some issues and say, OK, if everyone else is going to pretend that a partial birth abortion is interstate commerce, I'll go along, and OK, if someone is going to decide how to spend this pile of tax money, it might as well be me.

I'm not so inclined to compromise, and would agree that he should not have stepped outside the bounds of the Constitution to ban partial birth abortions, and he should have nothing to do with decisions on how to spend money he voted against appropriating. Usually, that kind of attitude gets comments like "OK, so take your marbles and go home, for all the good that will do."

I see now that if I stayed "in the game" the response would be "What the heck are you doing here? You don't even agree with this game?"

Can't win either way. ;)
 

Michigander

New member
Earmark Victory May Be A Hollow One

June 18, 2007

Last week's big battle on the House floor over earmarks in the annual appropriations bills was won by Republicans, who succeeded in getting the Democratic leadership to agree to clearly identify each earmark in the future. While this is certainly a victory for more transparency and openness in the spending process, and as such should be applauded, I am concerned that this may not necessarily be a victory for those of us who want a smaller federal government.

Though much attention is focused on the notorious abuses of earmarking, and there are plenty of examples, in fact even if all earmarks were eliminated we would not necessary save a single penny in the federal budget. Because earmarks are funded from spending levels that have been determined before a single earmark is agreed to, with or without earmarks the spending levels remain the same. Eliminating earmarks designated by Members of Congress would simply transfer the funding decision process to federal bureaucrats rather then elected representatives. In an already flawed system, earmarks can at least allow residents of Congressional districts to have a greater role in allocating federal funds - their tax dollars - than if the money is allocated behind locked doors by bureaucrats. So we can be critical of the abuses in the current system but we shouldn't lose sight of how some reforms may not actually make the system much better.

The real problem, and one that was unfortunately not addressed in last week's earmark dispute, is the size of the federal government and the amount of money we are spending in these appropriations bills. Even cutting a few thousand or even a million dollars from a multi-hundred billion dollar appropriation bill will not really shrink the size of government.

So there is a danger that small-government conservatives will look at this small victory for transparency and forget the much larger and more difficult battle of returning the United States government to spending levels more in line with its constitutional functions. Without taking a serious look at the actual total spending in these appropriations bills, we will miss the real threat to our economic security. Failed government agencies like FEMA will still get tens of billions of dollars to mismanage when the next disaster strikes. Corrupt foreign governments will still be lavishly funded with dollars taken from working Americans to prop up their regimes. The United
Nations will still receive its generous annual tribute taken from the American taxpayer. Americans will still be forced to pay for elaborate military bases to protect borders overseas while our own borders remain porous and unguarded. These are the real issues we must address when we look at reforming our yearly spending extravaganza called the appropriations season.

So we need to focus on the longer term and more difficult task of reducing the total size of the federal budget and the federal government and to return government to its constitutional functions. We should not confuse this welcome victory for transparency in the earmarking process with a victory in our long-term goal of this reduction in government taxing and spending.
emphasis added

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst061807.htm
 
Ron Paul continues to make claims such as he will get rid of the IRS, CIA ECT.... and yet does not say how he will go about it. His arguments have all the substance of a democrat, he says what he thinks people want to hear but offers no solutions or details on how he will accomplish them.

Ron Paul follower - Ron Paul will get rid of anything that is unconstitutional

Joe Blow citizen - How will he do accomplish that?

Ron Paul Follower - Ron Paul will get rid of anything that is unconstitutional

X...nicely put, ROLMFAO

Second,

Ron Paul has ZERO chance of becoming president.We are most likely going to get Hillary.Energy would be better spent working for somebody who can beat her,if her stated policies are disagreeable to you.

I agree with you 100% ZeroJunk...it is pointless to continue to support someone who has ZERO chance of winning the general election, or even making it to the general election. With the support that Hillibama have and the implications of one of them taking over, I will support whoever I think can beat them...call it the worse of two evils if you wish, but fact remains, Hillary and Obama are NOT what this country needs and to avoid that disaster we need to get behind a candidate who stands a chance. I am not for or against Ron Paul but he is out of his league running in this election
 

STAGE 2

New member
He also should have nothing to do with a bill that says a partial birth abortion is interstate commerce, yet he voted in favor of the bill.

I agree.


I thought you were a practical kind of guy, and as such you would like the fact that Ron Paul is willing to compromise on some issues and say, OK, if everyone else is going to pretend that a partial birth abortion is interstate commerce, I'll go along, and OK, if someone is going to decide how to spend this pile of tax money, it might as well be me.

This isn't about what I like, its about what Paul says. He paints himself as a constitutional hardass. Thats fine. I might understand if he bent the ruls a little bit if it involved something that saved lives or dealt with a fundamental right, but we're talking about shrimp fishing. Shrimp.



I'm not so inclined to compromise, and would agree that he should not have stepped outside the bounds of the Constitution to ban partial birth abortions, and he should have nothing to do with decisions on how to spend money he voted against appropriating. Usually, that kind of attitude gets comments like "OK, so take your marbles and go home, for all the good that will do."

True, but thats the corned he painte himself into with his stance of "if its not in there I can't do it"
 

publius42

New member
I might understand if he bent the ruls a little bit if it involved something that saved lives or dealt with a fundamental right, but we're talking about shrimp fishing. Shrimp.

1. The "rules" were mangled beyond recognition when the appropriation bill was passed, so I don't see getting all hot and bothered about coming along and kicking the wreckage after the fact by deciding that politicians should direct the spending instead of agency bureaucrats.

They've appropriated a huge pile of money, to be spent on things which are no darn business of the federal government under the Constitution. If Dr. Paul decides where the money goes, it's going to things which are no darn business of the federal government under the Constitution. If agency bureaucrats decide where the money goes, it's going to things which are no darn business of the federal government under the Constitution. How is the former "more unconstitutional" than the latter?

2. The seafood industry is large and important, and shrimp are extremely yummy.
 

publius42

New member
True, but thats the corned he painte himself into with his stance of "if its not in there I can't do it"

He built an escape lane by voting for that partial birth abortion ban, and then going right to his computer and writing about what he did and why.

Despite the many pronouncements by his fans, most are uninformed, and are not aware that Dr. Paul has already stepped outside the bounds of the Constitution by voting in a way that identifies partial birth abortion as interstate commerce. He did go and admit what he had done, and suggest that he does not, in fact, believe that a partial birth abortion is interstate commerce, but that does not change his vote. Ron Paul is ALMOST, but not quite, a constitutional purist.

He is also the only candidate in the race who has publicly identified something...anything...which is not interstate commerce. Not an easy task, but it makes choosing a candidate who will get my vote an easy task.
 

publius42

New member
that his running (post primary) could easily put Hillary in the White House (and give her the keys to the Patriot Act for awhile).

The same could be said of any of the other candidates. If Giuliani is not nominated, and runs as an independent, why he could hand the White House to Heillary! Panic!

Why is this argument brought up over and over in reference to Dr. Paul, but never to the others, some of whom (Mr. G, for example) have been members of other parties in the past?

If giving the Patriot Act authority to Hillary scares you, maybe the Act is the problem.
 
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