Indoor shooting range with a liquor license?

[44 AMP]

I've been lead to believe that in the 60s and 70s drinking during lunch was routine. I have no idea if that is true, or simply a Hollywood fiction.

Was in the Army during the 70s. On post, we were authorized two (2) beers with lunch. Beer was not served in the mess halls, but if you ate somewhere else (NCO club, pizza shop, bowling alley PX snack bar etc) where it was served you could have up to 2 beers and not be in official trouble (as long as two beers didn't make you drunk or obviously impaired).

Some people would do this, but most of us did not, simply because of where were worked, and transportation time. Getting to the mess hall, eating and getting back in time was possible. Getting to someplace that served beer, and getting back to work before lunch was over was usually not possible for most of us.

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[Aguila Blanca]

I live in Colorado as well, can you cite your source for the BAC.

Its what I was taught in my Concealed Carry Class.

You are correct,its a good idea to verify that for yourself. I'm thinking you can research it as easily as I can.

You might contact a facility that does CCW training and ask where it is written.

HiBC, you have been a member here since 2006. That's long enough that you should be aware that when any of us makes a statement and it is questioned, the responsibility for researching and providing the documentation falls on the person who made the statement, not the person or people who questioned it.

 

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

I can tell you with 100% certainty back in 50's and well into 70's a 2 or 3 beer lunch was fairly common.

Electric company crews for example, you would see several trucks parked at local taverns for lunch, Many guys would have more than a beer. Seen it many times with my own eyes, they didn't hide it.

Farmers, tradesman, factory workers...pretty much every occupation in my rural area were known for an occasional drink with lunch.

Many taverns of that era offered Friday Pay Day lunch & drink specials. It was common to cash your company paycheck when you arrive. The general rule was they give you the dollar amount on check, they kept the cents and everyone was happy.

Ever hear of the Two/three Martini Lunch and tax deduction for professional business people?

Not implying everyone drank, but somewhat common back then. I'm guessing the further back in history, the more common it was.

Our society has changed a lot, but still enjoy a cold beer after hot day at range once all G&A are secured. Many club & range lounges seem to have two groups, the social crowd that rarely or never shoot & the shooters that partake after shooting. They seem to police themselves quite well in my opinion.

And talking about social change, in my earlier years you NEVER heard a lady use the "F" word and men didn't use it around women and children.

Cheers.....!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

And talking about social change, in my earlier years you NEVER heard a lady use the "F" word and men didn't use it around women and children.

Now you're REALLY dating yourself.

On my first job after I came home from Vietnam and left the Army, there was a moderately attractive blonde gal who used language I never heard from a drill instructor's mouth. I was more than a little shocked.

But ... that was then, and this is now.

 

[HiBC]

Originally Posted by HiBC
Quote:
I live in Colorado as well, can you cite your source for the BAC.(Moonglum)

Its what I was taught in my Concealed Carry Class. (HiBC)

You are correct,its a good idea to verify that for yourself. I'm thinking you can research it as easily as I can.

You might contact a facility that does CCW training and ask where it is written.

And a response by Aguila Blanca :

HiBC, you have been a member here since 2006. That's long enough that you should be aware that when any of us makes a statement and it is questioned, the responsibility for researching and providing the documentation falls on the person who made the statement, not the person or people who questioned it.

OK. Spent a bunch of time to get back to what I originally posted . I think in the future I will be more reluctant to contribute. I don't get paid to do this.

I'm not a lawyer. Please do not take this as legal advice.

Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-106 Prohibited use....:

You have a firearm in your possession while you are under the influence of intoxicating liquor or of a controlled substance — a strict liability offense. This means you don’t have to have intended to use the weapon or have acted with any degree of legal culpability. Simply possessing a firearm while intoxicated is a violation of Colorado’s law against prohibited use of a weapon;
End Quote

Note "Under the Influence" and "Intoxicated" are not defined in this statute.

I am not enough of a legal mind to know if we can make the leap to apply the definitions used to define those terms for driving. I will provide a definition of those terms as they apply to driving, But I'm clearly stating I do not know if that applies.

Its rather extensive,so here is a link to a page.

https://www.orrlaw.com/resources/colorado-dui-resources/the-legal-limit-in-colorado/

What I took away from my Concealed carry class was we would be technically legal up to .05 BAC,which is the limit for being alcohol impaired.
HOWEVER, the instructor added that he recommended zero alcohol, because there is a provision that gives the Officer the discretion to declare you impaired regardless of BAC,

Quote:

DWAI
Colorado is a no tolerance state. You will be arrested and charged for DWAI if you have a blood or breath alcohol content between .050 and .079
You can still be charged with DWAI even if your test result comes back below .050.
If an officer believes that your ability to operate a motor vehicle is impaired to the slightest degree as ordinarily capable, you will be charged with driving while ability impaired

Unquote

Its up to you to figure out how to interpret and apply the above. I'm not a lawyer,and I'm not trying to give legal advice. I'm just jumping through the hoops.

 

[zukiphile]

I'm seeing clubs with ranges and cafes.

This recognizes a reality I saw when I joined my first range in the 1990s -- There is a large contingent who go to a range primarily to socialize. Many of the men I met didn't even bring their guns, but would sit out in the shop talking for hours.

I can tell you with 100% certainty back in 50's and well into 70's a 2 or 3 beer lunch was fairly common.

I started my first grown-up job in the early 1990s. We were a one minute walk from a place that had the longest single piece wooden bar between NY and Chicago.

Lunch always included a couple of glasses of whiskey before the food came. I rarely took more than an hour and a half, but the older cadre got there at 11AM and didn't wind up until 2PM. That's how they had six drinks for lunch.

Some would stop in for a drink before the drive home. That always struck me as excessive.

Seeing your competitors and adversaries over drinks at lunch contributed to a sense of community that has dried up and blown away.

And talking about social change, in my earlier years you NEVER heard a lady use the "F" word and men didn't use it around women and children.

I don't understand any use of profanity around women and children. I'd expect a fellow who did that to be spoken to about it by any other fellow nearby.

 

[44 AMP]

The Pilgrims left, seeking their own country.

And, when they got it, they were almost as intolerant as those in power in the country they left....

The primary difference was that in North America, there was room, so dissenters were "encouraged" to go elsewhere to practice their beliefs.

Religious or political (and in those days there often wasn't much difference) dissenters were able to move away, unlike Europe.

Look up how Rhode Island came about...for one example

 

[Moonglum]

Its what I was taught in my Concealed Carry Class.

You are correct,its a good idea to verify that for yourself. I'm thinking you can research it as easily as I can.

You might contact a facility that does CCW training and ask where it is written.

But I'm not the one who made the claim.

 

[HiBC]

Moonglum: I never made a claim. Thats your spin. I said "Its my understanding" . It can be my understanding without providing sources. "Its my understanding" is a lot like "Its my opinion" .It qualifies the statement.

See post 47 . Just for you, I dug up what I could. Apparently I wasted my time,you seem to have not read it.

Thats all the time I'm going to spend.

Moonglum and Aguila Blanco:

Here is my original statement:

I'm not in favor of mixing alcohol and guns.
If the guns must be secured in the vehicle before being served...I'd think thieves would target the parking lot.

OK,I'll try to play devil's advocate for balance. (Note my intent. NOT playing legal authority)

In my state (Colorado) my understanding (I'm not a lawyer) is you can be in a bar ,concealed carry, and have a drink in front of you. Supposedly, you might be legal having a beer with a green chili burrito plate.
The legal limit for being armed is the same as the legal limit for being impaired to drive. I think thats a .04 BAC. Its also my understanding Law Enforcement has the discretion to take your firearm and permit regardless if BAC if you have been drinking.

Note that I lead with 1) "Its my understanding" In fact, that IS my understanding,whether I prove it or not. 2) I also clearly said "I'm not a lawyer" 3) note "Supposedly" and "You might be legal"

Where did I (as YOU say) make a claim?

It was not meant to be taken as legal advice. It was meant as context for the discussion. Significant is the part about the officer having the discretion to arrest (a driver) for DWAI regardless of the breathalyzer BAC . You can blow zeros and get arrested on the Officer's discretion. (In Colorado).

I quoted the Colorado Revised Statute on "Prohibited use of a Firearm" in post 47. It used the terms "Intoxicated" and "Impaired" without defining them.

I do not consume alcohol when I carry.I do not advocate for mixing guns and alcohol. But I also am not into telling a club or range they CAN"T do it. I just probably would not go there.

It seems like you are demanding professional grade legal advice and I just can't/won't go there.

Take responsibility for your own life and choices. Don't bet your future on something you read on the internet.

Once again,I DID NOT say "Colorado law says ...." presenting it as fact.

I said "Its my understanding " (WHICH CAN BE WRONG)

NOW,WHAT IS IT YOU WANT FROM ME???

 

[hounddawg]

Back when I was younger most rural bars had turkey shoots during the fall of the year.They set a 25 yard range outside, and you paid $1 a shot. You could either use your own shotgun or a "house" gun and shot at a 4x4 card with a X on it. Closest pellet to the X won a ham or turkey. Kept my freezer full. Buddy of mine had a Benelli that we got banned at every shoot within two counties. Can't recall anyone ever being injured

 

[Rob228]

In my state (Colorado) my understanding (I'm not a lawyer) is you can be in a bar ,concealed carry, and have a drink in front of you. Supposedly, you might be legal having a beer with a green chili burrito plate.
The legal limit for being armed is the same as the legal limit for being impaired to drive. I think thats a .04 BAC. Its also my understanding Law Enforcement has the discretion to take your firearm and permit regardless if BAC if you have been drinking.

Don't want to go into too much detail but I have some experience here when it comes to Colorado.....
When my ex (and actually now current.... long story) wife and I were going through our first divorce we lived in Broomfield. She went to live with her parents and flew back to pack up all of her stuff. Like two grown responsible adults getting a divorce we went out for a night on the town, I wasn't carrying for the sole purpose that I knew there would be some drinks. When we got back home she was fairly well intoxicated and insisted that she would sleep in the car. I asked for and got her keys, then I went inside to walk the dogs. I got outside and saw her stalking off into the open space (Colorado thing) right next to our subdivision. When she fired I knew it wasn't coming at me because I could see all three feet of muzzle flash (a point that helped her considerably when I told the DA that I've been shot at before and that definitely wasn't coming at me). Regardless, I wasn't going to stick around to ask what she was shooting at and ran back inside and barricaded the door, called the police and guided them in. I did watch everything from the second deck windows and when I saw the cop with the less-lethal shotgun moving up I have to admit I got a little excited that I'd get to see a bean bag in action. Didn't happen she went compliant. HOWEVER

She immediately had to surrender her CCW permit back to the state, they confiscated her Glock 26 (was amazingly easy for me to get back after the ruling). End result was loss of her CCW and 80 hours community service.

I'm not going to say I've never done it, but I've grown to realize that I shouldn't have anything to do with firearms if alcohol is involved at all.

 

[Moonglum]

I'm sure there are safeguards to ensure that those who have consumed alcohol don't handle firearms.

I mean, most of us have alcohol in our homes and drink alcohol while we have guns in our homes.

How is this different?

 

[Mainah]

I mean, most of us have alcohol in our homes and drink alcohol while we have guns in our homes.

I don't drink with strangers at home. I worked in bars for several years and you'd be amazed by how much trouble alcohol fuels, often from people you wouldn't expect it from. I also worked in a private club, no shooting involved, but something about membership and dues made it a much more reasonable environment.

 

[TRX]

Back in the 19th and early 20th century in Britain, it was common for pubs to have a shooting lane or two set up for the entertainment of their patrons. No TV yet, you know.

Pub shooting went away due to Britain's "temperance unions" and their crusade against gambling. Patrons would bet on their shots, and that was horrible behavior that no civilized society could tolerate, you know.

Shooting was duly banned, and the gamblers switched to darts and carried on.

"The past is a different country..."

 

[stinkeypete]

They also used to tan hats with liquid mercury and the water pipes were made of lead.

"Mad as a Hatter" became a phrase because of the heavy metal poisoning.