In this edition of the Search for MY perfect 1911 ...

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LouPran

New member
Internal vs external extractors ...

Is it me or is this simply an issue of aesthetics ?

Externals have been around for years and worked flawlessly.

Internals have been around for a while now and also seem to work perfectly well. The internals with lowered and flared port even more so I'd imagine.

But looking at both Smith and Wesson and Wilson Combat ... I'm finding a lot of external extractors on guns I might otherwise like a lot.

Some examples here : (Please also give me opinion on these prices)

Smith & Wesson Model 1911 Performance Center .45 ACP
1059629_sw1911pc_owa02m.jpg

# Cal./Gauge: .45 ACP
# Barrel(s): 5"
# Weight: 2 Lbs. 10 Oz.
# Sights/Scope: Fluorescent Green Front, Adjustable Rear
# Trigger(s): Grooved
# Stock: Checkered Rosewood Grips
# Metal Condition: Very Good
# Bore Condition: Very Good
# Extras: Box
This pistol is loaded with custom features and is in very good overall condition. It comes complete with the original box.
Price: $1699.99

Smith & Wesson Model SW1911 .45 ACP
993139_sw191145_leh_01l.jpg

# Cal./Gauge: .45 ACP
# Barrel(s): 5"
# Weight: 39 oz.
# Sights/Scope: Novak Lo-Mount Carry sights
# Metal Condition: Fine
# Bore Condition: Excellent
# Extras: Maker's box
Price: $799.99

Smith and Wesson Model 1911, .45 ACP
1097740_smith1911_02l.jpg

# Cal./Gauge: .45 ACP
# Barrel(s): 5 Inch Barrel
# Weight: 42 oz.
# Sights/Scope: Adjustable Sights
# Trigger(s): Double Action
# Stock: Walnut Checkered Double Diamond Grips
# Metal Condition: Excellent
# Wood Condition: Excellent
# Bore Condition: Excellent
# Extras: Original Case, and Extra Magazine
Price: $1000.00

Wilson KZ-45 in .45 ACP (NOT SURE ABOUT A POLYFRAME FOR A 1911)
905609_wil45_01l_bud.jpg

# Cal./Gauge: .45 ACP
# Barrel(s): 4 Inches
# Weight: 30 Ozs
# Sights/Scope: Wilson Combat
# Trigger(s): Adjustable
# Bore Condition: Very Good
Wilson KZ-45 in .45 ACP. Lightweight stainless steel reinforced polymer frame. 10 Round magazine.
Price: $1199.00


Thoughts on these ?

I assume most would take any over a Taurus PT1911.

Are S&W's worth the money or is the external extractors a deal breaker for a good 1911?
 
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kristop64089

New member
not sure where you live, but those prices are high for a S&W. My "commander" you have listed for $1000, cost me $700.

IMO, Smiths are excellent guns, I am thuroughly impressed with them, and wouldn't mind adding a few more. I'd like to see them offer an Officer sized model as well.
 
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HisSoldier

New member
While I've never owned a true 1911 with external extractor I do have two .380 Llama's with them, they work fine. If they stopped working I assume it's easy to change the coil spring under them. I have over 30 automatics, the vast majority have external extractors, since only the 1911's have internals.
But in spite of all the internet talk about bad internal extractors I've never had a problem with JMB's original 1911 extractor, and they are even easier to replace, and easy to adjust tension on. I would never buy a 1911 with an external extractor because it wouldn't really be a 1911.
 
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LouPran

New member
not sure where you live, but those prices are high for a S&W. My "commander" you have listed for $1000, cost me $700.

IMO, Smiths are excellent guns, I am thuroughly impressed with them, and wouldn't mind adding a few more. I'd like to see them offer an Officer sized model as well.
Click to expand...

This is my thinking as well ... everything they sell seems to be 15-30% too high on USED guns and non negotiable in prices.
 
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Shane Tuttle

Staff
I think Smith puts out a quality 1911 style gun. I just don't like external ejectors. Similar to people hating front slide serrations, I think the EE takes away the looks of the 1911.

That Wilson in particular won't be in my safe. Can't stand polymer 1911s.

Where did you get these prices?! A couple of these are high, especially if they're used. Non-negotiable? I would be shopping elsewhere. Sounds like Cabela's....
 
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LouPran

New member
I just checked a Les Baer at Cabelas and the price is $300 more for a USED one than direct from Les Baer ...

WHAT THE HELL IS UP WITH THAT ??? :barf:
 
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robctwo

New member
Here's a new Performance Center: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/11750 for about the same $ with the ffl.

This looks like the $1,000 Stainless for less: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/11748

I have the S&W1911PD Commander with CT grips. Great gun. No issues ever with the extractor. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/15090

Have you browsed Bud's? Can you get deliveries to a ffl?

Have you contacted John at Proload about Baers? http://www.proload.com
 
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Officer's Match

New member
The SW 1911's are the only EE 1911's I'd consider because of their performance - but frankly I don't like the looks. Sort of like a '69 Camaro with 20's, not a mix I care for (strictly cosmetically speaking).
 
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HisSoldier

New member
Quote:
I would never buy a 1911 with an external extractor because it wouldn't really be a 1911.


"And that's one reason why I ask. Are external extractors taboo on 1911's?"

It doesn't really matter, does it? If it mattered to me all I would own are true 1911's, and really, if you get down to the nitty gritty, only military guns before the 1911A1 are true 1911's. :eek: The 1911A1 is simply that, a 1911A1. All current "1911's" vary a long ways from original specs, no one makes a 1911 to original specifications today, it would cost a fortune.
If you are concerned I'd say buy Colt, beyond that anything that you enjoy and can be proud of owning and shooting. If anyone sneers at it you can rest assured they are stoooopid morons. They sneer at Colts too, and even true 1911's.
 
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sholling

New member
I'm a fan of S&W 1911s but those prices all seem to be absolute top dollar. Of that bunch I shot and seriously the SW1991 before buying a PC1911. I love it! I also sht the Wilson KZ-45 and did not like it. The balance didn't feel right and the double stack grip was too awkward for my hand.

DSCF0525.jpg
DSCF0527.jpg
 
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Boats

Moderator
I think it matters.

Once you get past the appeal of the 1911A1 as a fighting platform itself, it has two other major selling points--the ease of its detail strip and the sheer size of its aftermarket support.

Extraneous parts interfere with both of these secondary appeals. Stripping a standard 1911A1's slide is simplicity itself unless one gets an external extractor. One also misses out on the opportunity for drop in spares from a source other than the manufacturer. So while an external might work as well as a properly tuned internal, (and in Kimber's case it certainly didn't), it sacrifices simplicity and compatibility to do so.
 
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rellascout

Moderator
Quote:
I would never buy a 1911 with an external extractor because it wouldn't really be a 1911.


"And that's one reason why I ask. Are external extractors taboo on 1911's?"

It doesn't really matter, does it? If it mattered to me all I would own are true 1911's, and really, if you get down to the nitty gritty, only military guns before the 1911A1 are true 1911's. The 1911A1 is simply that, a 1911A1. All current "1911's" vary a long ways from original specs, no one makes a 1911 to original specifications today, it would cost a fortune.
If you are concerned I'd say buy Colt, beyond that anything that you enjoy and can be proud of owning and shooting. If anyone sneers at it you can rest assured they are stoooopid morons. They sneer at Colts too, and even true 1911's.
Click to expand...

Simply not true.... Colt currently makes the WWI repo and it is very close to the original 1911s. They sell all day long for $900
 
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Bond007

New member
I know others have, but after at least 2000 rounds, my Kimber Custom II with external extractor has never failed me once.

As I get more familiar with it, I've started detail stripping it more and can't say that the slide that difficult to strip and clean either.

Get what you want, unless you're really concerned about resale value (which wouldn't make sense if it truly is your dream gun).
 
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