Lol true. Although now I'm even more curious about what I could do with my own knowledge. I know they have certain martial arts systems that activity use firearms such as Krav Maga and Systema but I unfortunately don't know those. So I'm just going to have to take what I do know, Taekwondo, Boxing, and Kickboxing and see if I could even mesh those three together myself.
I'm curious about mixing Martial Arts with Guns.
- Thread starter Rojack79
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Watch some John Wick movies
I'd go so far as to say that if you aren't incorporating striking and grappling into your training your defense plan is sorely lacking.
The term is called integrated combatives and it focuses heavily on weapons retention, the premise that many gunfights begin as fist fights, and your gun either going click or disabled or disarmed. The focus is on being able to transition from empty hands to a firearm and vice versa and being able to strike, grapple, fight your way to your feet etc.
Basically you need proficiency in firearms, blades, improvised weapons, striking, and grappling with a strong emphasis on situational awareness and avoidance.
There are a few who teach it at a very high level but they aren't cheap and their classes fill fast.
https://www.amtacshooting.com/upcoming-courses/
https://defoor-proformance-shooting.myshopify.com/collections/all
The term is called integrated combatives and it focuses heavily on weapons retention, the premise that many gunfights begin as fist fights, and your gun either going click or disabled or disarmed. The focus is on being able to transition from empty hands to a firearm and vice versa and being able to strike, grapple, fight your way to your feet etc.
Basically you need proficiency in firearms, blades, improvised weapons, striking, and grappling with a strong emphasis on situational awareness and avoidance.
There are a few who teach it at a very high level but they aren't cheap and their classes fill fast.
https://www.amtacshooting.com/upcoming-courses/
https://defoor-proformance-shooting.myshopify.com/collections/all
I have seen and own all of them except for Chapter 4.
Yes! This is what I'm talking about, this is what I'm hoping to achieve by incorporating my pistol into my Martial Arts. Now I do have training in firearms, blades, and Striking, as well as Situational awareness and avoidance. I do not however have the same training in Improvised weapons or grappling sadly. If I could get to a class like what you've posted I'd definitely do it ASAP. Thank you for your help and the link's.
Thank You So Very Much for the Link ... It's Freaking Awesome !
At 74 I don't know how much I can do ...but reading and studying this will give me some great idea's about what can be done .
This site and it's members are the best ... Thanks to you all for guidance given .
Gary
personal gripe: its not "THE four rules of gun safety" its The FIRST four rules, there are many others. "the four rules", and "every gun is always loaded" are SHORTHAND, they are incomplete and attenuated phrases intended to merely be easy reminders of the FULL RULES and their meanings.
Case in point. Obviously every gun isn't always loaded, but that's not the rule.
As AB pointed out, the rule is "Treat every gun as if it were loaded", and using a (literally inaccurate) "short form" of the rule for convenience ignores the reasoning and the logic behind the stated part of the rule.
I've been doing it for over 50 years, and I'm an amateur. So are you, unless you're getting paid to do it, and are doing it for your primary livelyhood (your profession).
Amateur does not mean unskilled, and professional does not guarantee expertise, though we do expect it. All professional means is you get paid for doing it. We expect competence and even expertise when we are paying for it, but our expectations and reality are often not fully congruent.
Electrod47
New member
Check out Tom Laughlin "Billy Jack" in a 70's flick "The Master Gun Fighter" He mixed Samurai Swords and six shooters in a western. Critic's panned it. I loved it.
True but my main point is, if it's somehow not an issue to dry fire and practice with our firearms at home, which as far as I know everyone here does, then why is it all of a sudden an issue when I simply want to introduce another avenue to learn how to incorporate my marksmanship into hand to hand combat? That's the thing I had an issue with the most in that little exchange. It's not like I don't know and don't follow the rules of gun safety, I do it whenever I dry fire and in fact whenever I handle my guns period. So I'm just a little confused as to what the big deal was for him to point those rules out explicitly when I do know and follow them already.
Some drills can be performed with an unloaded firearm. These drills will adhere to the same safety rules as any other time. Basically, the firearm isn't pointed at anyone and ammunition is removed from the training area.
If it's necessary to point a firearm at someone during training then it's not appropriate to use a real firearm. Use SIM or Airsoft with the strict safety protocols that they require or use an inert training pistol like a blue gun or SIRT pistol.
If it's necessary to point a firearm at someone during training then it's not appropriate to use a real firearm. Use SIM or Airsoft with the strict safety protocols that they require or use an inert training pistol like a blue gun or SIRT pistol.
Well that's just it, in again not talking about pointing my firearm at anyone else. That's the one rule I strive to never break even with an unleaded firearm. Although I do have a fake BN pistol id have to see if it could even be used in the holster I plan on getting.
Gun and martial arts don't mix. Whenever the martial art master is on scene to do his thing, all guns disappear even for the most bollocky reasons. I have seen that time again on movies.
No martial art guy would like to, or is able to, face a firearm. There were a few who dared, they didn't get to find out themselves, the spectators did.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
No martial art guy would like to, or is able to, face a firearm. There were a few who dared, they didn't get to find out themselves, the spectators did.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
To the OP, I know, WE are invincible. Its the other moron who screws up.
But doggone, there is history behind "I didn't know the gun was loaded" or "Its the unloaded gun that kills people"
Check out the Alec Baldwin movie "Rust" situation. The fact that I think Baldwin is a JERK aside,, imagine it was YOU,or Myself, who held the gun as Halyna was dying.
Try to feel that in your guts.
If you can absorb and accept a "Code" that will spare you that burden,....do yourself a favor.
One of the Olde School Gun Gurus had a tragic event. Bill Jordan.
Go here and read post # 34 . It was written by the Daughter of the Man who died as a result of Bill Jordan's mistake.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2384639
FWIW, no disrespect to Bill Jordan. The point is,there but for the Grace of God (and regarding all guns as loaded),go You and I .
You ever heard of Massad Ayoob? Highly regarded and respected . I still learn something every time I watch one of his vids. He had an unintended discharge once giving a class. As I understand it, he opened the cylinder on a revolver ,clearing the gun. I'm filling in the blanks here. I don't know what happened. If we clear thousands of guns,it can be a habit,done by wrote. We can clear a gun in our sleep. It can be a motion we go through.
As I understand it, Mr Ayoob did go through the motions of clearing the gun.
Somehow there was still a round in the cylinder. Fortunately,Mr Ayoob WAS obeying the rule about keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.The gun went "bang" No one was injured.
I do NOT bring up Bill Jordan and Massad Ayoob to embarrass or disgrace them. I have my stories,too. But I'd be just another moron.
The best of the best can have an "Aw,Do-Do" moment. There is no "I'm too cool to screw up"
Its the overlapping contingencies that save lives when You and I have a Human Fallibility incident.
Just get a blue gun,or an airsoft,or a non-firing replica and rock out. No regrets.
But doggone, there is history behind "I didn't know the gun was loaded" or "Its the unloaded gun that kills people"
Check out the Alec Baldwin movie "Rust" situation. The fact that I think Baldwin is a JERK aside,, imagine it was YOU,or Myself, who held the gun as Halyna was dying.
Try to feel that in your guts.
If you can absorb and accept a "Code" that will spare you that burden,....do yourself a favor.
One of the Olde School Gun Gurus had a tragic event. Bill Jordan.
Go here and read post # 34 . It was written by the Daughter of the Man who died as a result of Bill Jordan's mistake.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2384639
FWIW, no disrespect to Bill Jordan. The point is,there but for the Grace of God (and regarding all guns as loaded),go You and I .
You ever heard of Massad Ayoob? Highly regarded and respected . I still learn something every time I watch one of his vids. He had an unintended discharge once giving a class. As I understand it, he opened the cylinder on a revolver ,clearing the gun. I'm filling in the blanks here. I don't know what happened. If we clear thousands of guns,it can be a habit,done by wrote. We can clear a gun in our sleep. It can be a motion we go through.
As I understand it, Mr Ayoob did go through the motions of clearing the gun.
Somehow there was still a round in the cylinder. Fortunately,Mr Ayoob WAS obeying the rule about keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.The gun went "bang" No one was injured.
I do NOT bring up Bill Jordan and Massad Ayoob to embarrass or disgrace them. I have my stories,too. But I'd be just another moron.
The best of the best can have an "Aw,Do-Do" moment. There is no "I'm too cool to screw up"
Its the overlapping contingencies that save lives when You and I have a Human Fallibility incident.
Just get a blue gun,or an airsoft,or a non-firing replica and rock out. No regrets.
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Honestly I have heard all about the rust incident, and it's tragic, I feel for the family of the Halyna and her family. And again I'm not trying to say I'm infallible or not capable of making a mistake, I've made plenty of them, I am simply saying that I do not understand what the big deal is with safely practicing with my gun, in my home, with no one else around. That's it. That's all I'm not understanding. Of we all do this with dry firing and there's no accidents, than what's the difference between me doing this at home in safety, just being me practicing with my gun and seeing how it goes with incorporating martial arts into the mix? I'm not saying I want to go out and practice this in a gym, or in a sparring match with a partner, I want to do this at home and practice in the exact same manner as we all do when it comes to dry firing.
Again I'm not saying I'm perfect and can't make a mistake, but if it's so dangerous to practice at home then should none of us ever try to practice dry firing?
Dryfiring is a very common factor in unintentional discharges.
Here's how to dry-fire safely.
https://www.corneredcat.com/article/practice-time/dry-fire-safety/
If you can follow all the recommendations in that article and still do what you plan to do, then you should be ok.
If you can't follow all the recommendations in the article while doing what you plan to do, then you should put additional safety measures in place.
You get it or you don't. Its a waste of my time to argue farther.
It peaves me when people come and ask for feedback when what they really want is blessing something I will not bless
And then they want to argue.
OK,I'll point out a critical flaw in your thinking. When dry firing, do you use your dog or your neighbor's window for a direction to point your muzzle? No?
So you use a redundant layer of safety by pointing in a safe direction? The basement wall,maybe? A lot like pointing down range during live fire?
Now,as you play Bruce Lee or Jean Claude, where is your muzzle pointed? Where is your focused awareness?
The difference is, when I dry fire, I CAN assume the gun is loaded,because if it was,if it went "BANG" the gun would be pointed in a safe direction ,I know where my bullet would stop,and no one would get hurt.
When you put on the music and do your "Kata dances with guns" can you say the gun is always pointed in a safe direction?
NOW! Why do you (Like Baldwin) reject the idea of an alternative to a real gun?
Don't bother to answer,because it BS, I'm done wasting my time.
It peaves me when people come and ask for feedback when what they really want is blessing something I will not bless
And then they want to argue.
OK,I'll point out a critical flaw in your thinking. When dry firing, do you use your dog or your neighbor's window for a direction to point your muzzle? No?
So you use a redundant layer of safety by pointing in a safe direction? The basement wall,maybe? A lot like pointing down range during live fire?
Now,as you play Bruce Lee or Jean Claude, where is your muzzle pointed? Where is your focused awareness?
The difference is, when I dry fire, I CAN assume the gun is loaded,because if it was,if it went "BANG" the gun would be pointed in a safe direction ,I know where my bullet would stop,and no one would get hurt.
When you put on the music and do your "Kata dances with guns" can you say the gun is always pointed in a safe direction?
NOW! Why do you (Like Baldwin) reject the idea of an alternative to a real gun?
Don't bother to answer,because it BS, I'm done wasting my time.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with dry fire at home. The best trainers in the business all recommend it. The protocols are simple: don't point the gun at anyone, check and double check to be sure it's unloaded, even if you put it down for a minute check again. Dry fire all you want.
Someone is around. You. Injuring yourself would likely impact others, people that care about you. In addition to that, if there are people within gunshot of your home then mistaken dry fire could see someone else injured.
I have had a negligent discharge while dry firing. Can dry fire be done safely and do I still do it? Yes. Can it also have serious repercussions? Yes.
I think the device mentioned in the article John linked makes sense. I would add that for what you are doing you don’t need a functioning firearm. When I dry fire I do so in part because I am able to feel the trigger on my firearm as I would during live fire; that feedback is important. From what you’ve described I don’t see that as necessary. A blue gun or airsoft pistol would likely be fine. The latter has some advantages in terms of allowing an actual trigger pull and perhaps seeing where a round might impact (airsoft can cause injuries to eyes and other areas so exercise some caution). I make it a habit not to handle firearms unnecessarily, and since I don’t see it as necessary here I wouldn’t do it.