I am a simplistic one-issue voter

MedicineBow

New member
Since Heller has taken the Second Amendment issue off the table for this year's presidential election, this is all moot.

Y'all better pay attention to all those other "minor" issues when deciding how to vote.
 

44 AMP

Staff
The numerical order of the Amendments is irrelevant!!!!

but the second amendment is second for a reason

It makes for good PR claiming how the 1st Amendment is most important, because it is first (or it is first because of its importance), but the actual order of the Amendments does not matter. They are all equally law, and neither higher nor lower number Amendments are more important than others.

As originally drafted, the 2nd Amendment was fourth. It became the 2nd when the two previous amendments were scrapped.

If the number of the amendment were a measure of its importance, then the prohibition against quartering soldiers in private homes in time of peace would be more important than our protections against unreasonable search and siezure, or our right against self incrimination.

The Amendments had to be listed in some kind of order, and the Founders used the order to indicate how they felt about the realtive importance of the issues, but they did not imbue the listing order with any legal significance. They are all equal in importance under the law.

(Yes, quartering soldiers in private homes, as the British did, was a big important issue in the early 1770s, even though it has become rather irrelevant since then.)

The attachment of importance to the numerical order of the Amendments is only emotional rhetoric by someone (including those on our side) using a fortuitous accident of order to give the appearance of importance.

The right to arms is not less important than the right to freedom of religion, nor is it more important than the right to due process, or any of the other enumerated rights in the BOR. All our rights are equal under the law, including those NOT enumerated in the BOR!
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Did Roe v. Wade take abortion off the table. Good ol' Fred Barnes was babbling about that on Fox? He also thought that McCain could win on gay marriage and gays in the military. Oh,well. Probably it's only the law that keeps Fred from proposing to Chris Wallace. :D

Or do you mean, that Obama will take Heller as the law and STFU about guns for his campaign? He still might select anti-Hellerites as McCain might appoint NoRoeForYou judges.
 
Being a "one issue voter" is just proving Obama's point of how some people are clinging to their guns in desperation...to the point of ignoring the real issues of the nation.

Gun rights are something that can be won and defended through due process...as recent victories as far as inceases in "shall issue" states and the Heller decision show.

But, if you allow that right to due process to be whittled away you no longer have any recourse when things truly start to go bad. The whole gun issue is used as the lollipop to make childish gun owners except the medicine of increased government authority without crying too loudly.
 

MedicineBow

New member
Nah, guns are off the table this time around, at least for 99% of the people.

The remaining 1% wouldn't vote for Obama if it were proven that he was a cross between Winston Churchill, Rambo, Mother Theresa, Milton Friedman and Spiderman. Which makes them irrelevant.
 

Recon7

New member
I could criticize you for voting on only 1 issue, but that is 1 issue more than some Americans consider when voting.:D

change is not an issue, its umm uhhh whats the word...:barf:
 

Epyon

New member
I don't single issue vote...

As much as I love guns, I find that most VERY pro-gun candidates are also pushing religious, and social agendas. I can't agree with someone who thinks we should have prayer in schools, and ban gays from having the same rights as everyone else. This is why my candidates never win. :(:(:(


Epyon
 

RDak

New member
I'm just a simple old guy also Weshoot2. :)

Playboypenguin: I won my issue finally with Heller. I leave it up to you young guys to tackle the other problems. Go get 'em!! ;)
 

44 AMP

Staff
Guns are off the table, for now....

After the election, it is a whole new game, again. Lame duck politicians will be pushing hard for their private agendas, and have no fear of losing re-election (they already have), so they have no reason to listen to the desires of their constituates if they don't care to.

And the usual suspects (who likely will get elected yet again) will go ahead with their agendas, because, after all, it is a long time until the next election, and they count on our short attention span.

While they may act and even speak stupidly, politicians can, and do learn certain things, and sometimes, they remember them, especially when it costs them something personally. They have learned from 1994, that pushing anti-gun legislation in an election year, before the election is not a good idea!

So, for now, guns are off the table. Once the election is over, they will be back on. The Heller decision is going to throw a large monkey wrench into the traditional tactics of the antis, but they are clever folks, and will come up with some other emotional argument to champion their cause soon enough.
 
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Single issue voting? Well, that is 1 issue more than 0 issue voting.

I guess you could call it mouse gun voting, because 1 issue is better than nothing.
 

PT111

New member
The one issuse voter is not as wild as one would thing because usually if a cantidate leans toward you thoughts on on issue they are probably closer to you on others. In other word either right wing or left wing. This os not always the case as some have pointed out so that is where the rub comes in.

This is well and good usually for the main stream politicians such as Republicans or Democrats but getting into the minor cantidates we need to look further. For instance Ron Paul differed from my opinions on some issues that there was no way I could support him. There was no middle ground on so many things until I had to look beyond the one issue decision. McCain and Obama are so close on many of their standings that there is probably only one issue to be concerned with.

If a politician promises everyone an SUV and you want one then fine but if one will provide you with a SUV but no gas for it have you won anything. Would you prefer a cantidate to allow you to have a gun or one that provides you with an environment that you don't need one? An extreem I know but we have to look at more than one issue.
 

JuanCarlos

New member
If a politician promises everyone an SUV and you want one then fine but if one will provide you with a SUV but no gas for it have you won anything. Would you prefer a cantidate to allow you to have a gun or one that provides you with an environment that you don't need one? An extreem I know but we have to look at more than one issue.

If the latter were actually possible, I'd probably choose it. But anybody with sense knows it isn't.

I've gotten into some interesting conversations with people from overseas who think strict gun control is a good thing. Nevermind that it didn't do anything to change their crime rate (it was already lower, and stayed lower at the same rate and trend). One of them said something...that he honestly believed that when a society progresses enough it finds that it has no need anymore for private gun ownership. And honestly, I think he was right. But then the question becomes: if society has progressed to the point where guns are no longer needed, what is the harm in allowing them?

He had no real answer.

The argument I fall back on anytime I talk to anti-gunners is this: banning the tools used in a crime does little to prevent the crime...it just alters the method. Homicide rates didn't drop in the UK or AUS as gun control was tightened, firearm homicide rates did. They point to lower crime rates in all these other western nations with strict gun control, suggesting that the correlation must mean something; to which I point out that those nations also have different ways of dealing with most of the issues that cause violent crime (at least the random sort). Things like poverty, income disparity, mental illness, drugs.

It comes down to this when I argue with anti-gunners...I'm not particularly interested in giving up my guns even if it would reduce crime, so I'm certainly not interested in doing so when the evidence (crime rate trends in other countries as gun controls are introduced) suggests that it won't. Personally, before I'd even be willing to consider stricter gun controls, I'd prefer we address some of the root issues causing people to become criminals, not just try and take their guns away. Because I'm not excited about getting stabbed instead of shot.

The funny part, though, is that you were right in your other (unquoted) paragraph. Gun control (for or against) tends to come as part of either a left- or right-wing package. And in general the people who are strongest supporters of gun rights think "addressing the root issues of crime" means more prisons, more cops, more executions. And maybe some longer sentences thrown in for recreational use of the wrong drugs. And the people who might be interested in actually trying to address some of the social and economic factors contributing to violent crime are also looking to take guns from law-abiding citizens...and the latter is generally much easier to pass into law than the former.

Lose-lose.

I guess it depends on the person, but I'd like to think I'm not alone...whether or not a candidate agrees with me on one issue (even one of my most important issues) rarely indicates that they'll agree with me on a majority. My positions don't clearly line up with either party. Really, I think the average person who considers themselves a "one-issue-voter" is likely just something else (though they may or may not want to admit it)...a cookie-cutter member of their party. More or less, at least.
 

TimRB

New member
"One of them said something...that he honestly believed that when a society progresses enough it finds that it has no need anymore for private gun ownership. And honestly, I think he was right."

He was *not* right! The writers of the Second Amendment wanted to make certain that there was NEVER a time when only the government was armed, so that if America ever has a Tienamen Square the people are not standing there with sticks and rocks.

Tim
 

JuanCarlos

New member
Well, I'd hardly consider Communist China an example of progress. ;)

Besides that, I still stand by my point...which is that if by some chance my need for a gun can be removed (somewhat far-fetched, to be sure...and keeping a possibly repressive government in check is just one example of a legitimate need) then theoretically there'd be no harm in allowing me to have one anyway.

Any society in which there is a need for gun bans is a society in which there is (ironically) a need for private gun ownership. Self-defense being another legitimate need.

Kinda tangential to the subject (actually, most of my post was...sorry), so I'm more than willing to agree to disagree.
 
The one issuse voter is not as wild as one would thing because usually if a cantidate leans toward you thoughts on on issue they are probably closer to you on others.
That is not true at all. Politics gone wrong is all about manipulation and often about deception. When a politician sees someone that pretty much says "I am single minded and easily manipulated" do you think they don't take full advantage of that? If you give them a blank check to do as they please as long as they allow you one freedom you will eventually lose everything including that single freedom.
 

WESHOOT2

New member
I choose my words

I remain, as stated, a single issue voter.

No other issue is more important to me than the person I vote for understanding and protecting the concept and reality of the Second.

I was not always so simple; I used to be very complex.
Then I became wiser.
Wiser.

As for the specious argument someone made about backing someone taking ALL my rights away, I find it ludicrious. The argument, I mean.

The odd thing about this thread is that no one really questioned why.

We, as Americans, will soon again get to choose our 'leader'. That person will provide opportunities for others around him to act in ways all-too-often unchecked, sometimes illegal, even moronic.
(Sound familiar?)
So if the Democrat wins, with both Houses already Democrat, vast harm can (and will?) be done.

Recall the diminishing of the Office after Clinton.
Recall the abuses happening NOW.
Remember Nixon stealing jewels, and Johnson building helo-pads, and Kennedy getting pimp service from the Secret Service (whack!).
Recall?

So were the Russians right? Will we do ourselves in?
I don't know; I'm too simple.......

Simple: I insist on my right to own, keep, and carry guns.
So that's how I vote.
Always.
Now.



I am neither Democrat or Republican; I am an American.
 

Semi-jacketed

New member
I always vote for the person that allows citizens to retain more freedoms. If a candidate wants to provide more to others while taking from most to do it (and they have to because the government doesn't actually produce anything but legislation), I'm automatically skeptical.

Any time a find someone wanting to inflict their view of the world on me at my expense, that person had better have an outstanding line of logic and reason. What ever happened to allowing me to determine what I want to do as long as I'm not forcing anyone else to abrogate their fundamental rights or I am not inflicting harm or using property without permission?

As much as I respect others religious viewpoints, I don't want it forced upon me in any way (and that includes the religious fanaticism of atheists for the mission of Godlessness). Believe what you want, but don't force others to believe what you want.

I don't think anyone should starve in this country, but I also don't think that anyone should be able to make a living by not working and becoming a welfare recipient taking advantage of every program. I used to believe that children shouldn't suffer for the faults of their parents. I don't believe that anymore and it took years of actual experience to show me why. No one has the right to healthcare, and it isn't implied anywhere in the laws of our country, but I'm sure that it will be provided as one soon at everyone's expense, and only a select few will actually benefit from the arrangement while everyone but the very rich will be greatly burdened by it thereby doing exactly opposite of its declared intention.

In today's world, those who are willing to treat everyone as a child with all that perspective entails (removing all risk and reward except with explicit permission and regulation of the state-- i.e., fascism) wish to remove firearms from private hands. Therefore, being a single issue voter in the current world is far from voting on a single issue, but simply distilling down the philosophy and intellectual perspective of those who seek to deny the most fundamental right of all. After that one right is erased, the other rights being denied in full are a given. All a person has to do is observe other countries where that right has been forfeited, ignored or regulated to virtual non-existence.

You only have those rights which you can defend.
 
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AZ Med18

New member
There is a major issue a watch for (the 2nd amendment) and then smaller ones I watch for. So I may not be as simplistic as others but I can say if they dont support the 2nd amendment then they don't get my vote.
 
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