How to handle street harassment?
- Thread starter WyldOne
- Start date
If you guys are done milking that one, can we get back to the discussion? 
For calling 911, I suggest having it programmed into your phone's memory, so that it is a 'one touch' dial. I have mine in position 9, because that's easy for my feeble mind to remember. If I need 911 (which I often do for drunks - I just LOVE helping to bust them!) I just press 9 and hold it for a couple of seconds. Less error prone, and faster.
Remember that they don't know where you are. Be prepared to tell them. And it is possible to get connected to the wrong call center. Like in the wrong county sometimes. Give the city, not just the street.
Some areas have started to implement Phase 1 of the new E-911 requirements. That means that they have your call back number and a ROUGH idea of where you are. When I say rough, I mean within several city blocks in a dense urban area, and many square miles in a rural area. And not all carriers in a given market will have made the same progress in this - some may have it and some not. If your service provider does not have this in place, all the 911 folks know is that you are on a cell phone somewhere on planet Earth. Help them find you!
For a preview of what is coming in cellphone location, see this old thread. The information is accurate, except that the entire industry is way behind schedule. The FCC has just granted some further extensions.
For more than you ever wanted to know about the current state of the art, see this old house, er, thread, wherein you'll also see a fine example of my lack of patience with a know-it-all, who doesn't. (And who needs remedial courses in English and logic.)
For calling 911, I suggest having it programmed into your phone's memory, so that it is a 'one touch' dial. I have mine in position 9, because that's easy for my feeble mind to remember. If I need 911 (which I often do for drunks - I just LOVE helping to bust them!) I just press 9 and hold it for a couple of seconds. Less error prone, and faster.
Remember that they don't know where you are. Be prepared to tell them. And it is possible to get connected to the wrong call center. Like in the wrong county sometimes. Give the city, not just the street.
Some areas have started to implement Phase 1 of the new E-911 requirements. That means that they have your call back number and a ROUGH idea of where you are. When I say rough, I mean within several city blocks in a dense urban area, and many square miles in a rural area. And not all carriers in a given market will have made the same progress in this - some may have it and some not. If your service provider does not have this in place, all the 911 folks know is that you are on a cell phone somewhere on planet Earth. Help them find you!
For a preview of what is coming in cellphone location, see this old thread. The information is accurate, except that the entire industry is way behind schedule. The FCC has just granted some further extensions.
For more than you ever wanted to know about the current state of the art, see this old house, er, thread, wherein you'll also see a fine example of my lack of patience with a know-it-all, who doesn't. (And who needs remedial courses in English and logic.)
I apologize for the fortunecity popup, but this page was the source of the above "keyring" which I doubt is even legal in Massachusetts or especially Boston.
http://members.fortunecity.com/angcobra/impact.html
I expect just having that "keyring" in one's hand and having "don't mess with me" body language would be enough in most situations to deter the harrassment in the first place.
I mean, would any of YOU guys mess with La Femme Nikita if she was sitting on a bus bench and carrying one of those "keyrings"?
http://members.fortunecity.com/angcobra/impact.html
I expect just having that "keyring" in one's hand and having "don't mess with me" body language would be enough in most situations to deter the harrassment in the first place.
I mean, would any of YOU guys mess with La Femme Nikita if she was sitting on a bus bench and carrying one of those "keyrings"?
I wouldn't be talking to him. I would be watching his hands rather than his face (he can't hurt you with his eyes and you get that whole challenge thing going). I agree that you would want to be on your feet. If he lunges toward you, you want to be able to move laterally and get off the line of force, preferably getting something (like the bench) between you and him.
In terms of a knife, you might want to consider a push dagger like the Cold Steel Safe Keeper III . You make a fist, if protrudes between your fingers and you punch with it; easier to hold on to.
I would recommend a little gem of a book by Jeff Cooper called "Principles of Personal Defense". It's not about how to fight with anything but about developing a proper mindset. Less than 100 pages and around $10.
In terms of a knife, you might want to consider a push dagger like the Cold Steel Safe Keeper III . You make a fist, if protrudes between your fingers and you punch with it; easier to hold on to.
I would recommend a little gem of a book by Jeff Cooper called "Principles of Personal Defense". It's not about how to fight with anything but about developing a proper mindset. Less than 100 pages and around $10.
This is a very interesting topic, and one that I feel we should spend more time on rather than endlessly discussing lethal force. For most of us, this type of situation happens frequently and we have to deal with it. When I took my CCW course, they showed a video of situations similar to this where lethal force was not justified. I remember one of the senarios was a guy delivering a package in an alley. He got out of the truck and was approached by a couple winos. One wino got aggressive and was hacking up lung butter and spitting it on the guy. I found myself really getting pissed just watching the video. I vowed to carry some form of non-lethal weapon for a situation like this, but ended up doing nothing about it.
The guy who mentioned opening a knife and cleaning your fingernails brought back a funny memory. I dated a very nice looking hispanic girl that lived on the wrong side of the tracks. She was a super nice, very intelligent woman, but she was street smart. Her two brothers were small time gang bangers. She moved out of town and several months later she called me. She had a couple incidents on a public bus similar to yours where the guy in the seat in front of her tryed to start something with her and wouldn't take no for an answer. The first time she flipped out a switchblade and began eating an apple. The second time she spit in the guy's face and then produced the switchblade. Both times the conversation ended abruptly. I am sure the guy thought that the little five foot, 22 year old was a push over. He found out he was playing with fire.
Another story that I found very amusing was told to me by my buddy Steve. It seems that his big brother did two tours of duty with Force Recon in Vietnam. For some reason, his brother never drove and doesn't to this day. He rides the bus all the time. He also has carried two K-Bar knives since returning from Vietnam. Within weeks of returning stateside, he took his little brother Steve to a Laker's game on the bus. At one stop a group of gang bangers got on the bus and started harrassing the other passengers. The all decided to focus on an elderly couple. At this point Steve's brother produced both K-Bars, starting walking toward the 'bangers and said, "If you want to **** with somebody, how about me ? " They all immediately jumped from the moving bus. I can imagine what this dude looked like coming at them with those knives. Within the past month he had been in combat and I have no doubt he was totally serious about cutting them up. Obviously they could see that at the time.
The guy who mentioned opening a knife and cleaning your fingernails brought back a funny memory. I dated a very nice looking hispanic girl that lived on the wrong side of the tracks. She was a super nice, very intelligent woman, but she was street smart. Her two brothers were small time gang bangers. She moved out of town and several months later she called me. She had a couple incidents on a public bus similar to yours where the guy in the seat in front of her tryed to start something with her and wouldn't take no for an answer. The first time she flipped out a switchblade and began eating an apple. The second time she spit in the guy's face and then produced the switchblade. Both times the conversation ended abruptly. I am sure the guy thought that the little five foot, 22 year old was a push over. He found out he was playing with fire.
Another story that I found very amusing was told to me by my buddy Steve. It seems that his big brother did two tours of duty with Force Recon in Vietnam. For some reason, his brother never drove and doesn't to this day. He rides the bus all the time. He also has carried two K-Bar knives since returning from Vietnam. Within weeks of returning stateside, he took his little brother Steve to a Laker's game on the bus. At one stop a group of gang bangers got on the bus and started harrassing the other passengers. The all decided to focus on an elderly couple. At this point Steve's brother produced both K-Bars, starting walking toward the 'bangers and said, "If you want to **** with somebody, how about me ? " They all immediately jumped from the moving bus. I can imagine what this dude looked like coming at them with those knives. Within the past month he had been in combat and I have no doubt he was totally serious about cutting them up. Obviously they could see that at the time.
There are a couple things you can try. The first is just look at them and don't say anything. They want you to talk and play with them so don't.
The second whick has worked well for my wife is to look at them and put your hand into your purse as if you are getting a firing grip on a pistol. This will usaully stop anyone who is walking up to you talking from coming closer.
My favorite is to act crazy. When they start talking to you say "I know it's you! You think just because they changed your face I can't recognize you?" Then start speaking in tongues for a minute and they have usaully gone.
The second whick has worked well for my wife is to look at them and put your hand into your purse as if you are getting a firing grip on a pistol. This will usaully stop anyone who is walking up to you talking from coming closer.
My favorite is to act crazy. When they start talking to you say "I know it's you! You think just because they changed your face I can't recognize you?" Then start speaking in tongues for a minute and they have usaully gone.
Culture?
I thought that Boston was the bastion of culture. Of course we may be a little more polite to each other out here because many carry firearms. "An armed society is a polite society."
I can't imagine this character lasting very long confronting a group of people at a downtown OKC bus stop. It just wouldn't happen. For one thing OKC has cleansed the area over the past fifteen years. There are areas where one is best advised to not frequent after dark; but, no one in their right mind would go there anyway, day or night. Most men out here would not stand for someone accosting a woman or another man for that matter. There are the exceptions which prove the rule, of course.
This attitude is one of many reasons why I have stayed here since arriving 26 years ago. I don't miss the "cultured" life at all.
I thought that Boston was the bastion of culture. Of course we may be a little more polite to each other out here because many carry firearms. "An armed society is a polite society."
I can't imagine this character lasting very long confronting a group of people at a downtown OKC bus stop. It just wouldn't happen. For one thing OKC has cleansed the area over the past fifteen years. There are areas where one is best advised to not frequent after dark; but, no one in their right mind would go there anyway, day or night. Most men out here would not stand for someone accosting a woman or another man for that matter. There are the exceptions which prove the rule, of course.
This attitude is one of many reasons why I have stayed here since arriving 26 years ago. I don't miss the "cultured" life at all.
oh my goodness, I leave my computer for a day and look what happens
There's a lot to reply to here, so bear with me a bit
One of the reasons that it was so scary was because I just didn't know what I should do, so this has been really helpful!! I knew that the situation didn't really call for pepper spray, or mace, or a gun, or anything....except maybe for me to hold onto (privately) so I would feel better.
As far as standing--good idea. I was wearing a skirt because I had gone to the meeting straight from work, and it was windy, and I was tired. But I suppose I spend my time coming up with excuses, or I could do something about it.
Getting a knife--I just don't know. It sounds like a really good idea, and really useful, but I just don't think that I could do it. One of the things about using a gun is that I don't have to make physical contact with the person, in order to use it. BUT I'll think about it.
Not talking to the person, no eye contact--This is what I usually do. I usually just pretend that I don't even notice them. It's hard for two main reasons though, when you don't respond to them, that just makes them even more determined to bother you. Also, it's hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I have something to say.
One of the reasons that I still don't feel ready to try to get a permit, is because of my attitude. I still feel, in some instances, as if a gun or other kind of weapon is a power symbol. ("If you mess with me, I'll.......") And until I can overcome that mentality, I don't think it would be good for me to own a gun. So this incident shows that I'm still just not there yet.
Baba,
I will try this. Thanks!
Tall Man,
My parents live in Iowa. There, it's fine (if a bit creepy at first) for people that I don't know to wave and say "hello" to me....Although I still have this thing about saying "hello" back to them, but I'm working on it.
In the midwest, that's fine. Largely, because that's an accepted way of life. That is not so in Boston.
Here, you mind your own business. Even if a woman were to say "hello" to me, if I did not know her, it is not acceptable. You simply do not talk to me if you don't know me, especially if it's dark outside. A lot of this is a survival mechanism for myself. I don't know if you're a "nice guy" with good intentions, or if you're going to try to "charm" me into the backseat of your car. I don't know, and there's no way for me to know.
Another part of it, is that when I say that "strange males talking to me at night is not okay", I'm not talking about striking up a conversation. I mean comments such as, "Nice tits!" are not okay. Ever. And so far, I haven't had a single female say that to me.
Basically, my rule is, if you don't know me then shut up and leave me alone. If someone can't follow this simple rule of thumb, well that's where there is gonna be some problems....
There's a lot to reply to here, so bear with me a bit
One of the reasons that it was so scary was because I just didn't know what I should do, so this has been really helpful!! I knew that the situation didn't really call for pepper spray, or mace, or a gun, or anything....except maybe for me to hold onto (privately) so I would feel better.
As far as standing--good idea. I was wearing a skirt because I had gone to the meeting straight from work, and it was windy, and I was tired. But I suppose I spend my time coming up with excuses, or I could do something about it.
Getting a knife--I just don't know. It sounds like a really good idea, and really useful, but I just don't think that I could do it. One of the things about using a gun is that I don't have to make physical contact with the person, in order to use it. BUT I'll think about it.
Not talking to the person, no eye contact--This is what I usually do. I usually just pretend that I don't even notice them. It's hard for two main reasons though, when you don't respond to them, that just makes them even more determined to bother you. Also, it's hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I have something to say.
One of the reasons that I still don't feel ready to try to get a permit, is because of my attitude. I still feel, in some instances, as if a gun or other kind of weapon is a power symbol. ("If you mess with me, I'll.......") And until I can overcome that mentality, I don't think it would be good for me to own a gun.
So this incident shows that I'm still just not there yet.Baba,
I will try this. Thanks!
Tall Man,
My parents live in Iowa. There, it's fine (if a bit creepy at first) for people that I don't know to wave and say "hello" to me....Although I still have this thing about saying "hello" back to them, but I'm working on it.
In the midwest, that's fine. Largely, because that's an accepted way of life. That is not so in Boston.
Here, you mind your own business. Even if a woman were to say "hello" to me, if I did not know her, it is not acceptable. You simply do not talk to me if you don't know me, especially if it's dark outside. A lot of this is a survival mechanism for myself. I don't know if you're a "nice guy" with good intentions, or if you're going to try to "charm" me into the backseat of your car. I don't know, and there's no way for me to know.
Another part of it, is that when I say that "strange males talking to me at night is not okay", I'm not talking about striking up a conversation. I mean comments such as, "Nice tits!" are not okay. Ever. And so far, I haven't had a single female say that to me.
Basically, my rule is, if you don't know me then shut up and leave me alone. If someone can't follow this simple rule of thumb, well that's where there is gonna be some problems....
Wyldone, I'm impressed with the quality of the response you received. Thanks for asking the question.
I'll just make a suggestion. There is any number of companies // organizations // personnel out there who specialize in teaching // training in personal protection. Most feature training in the use of guns. There are others that teach // train in all facets of personal protection. There is a guy in my home town that teaches personal protection techniques, one of which involves the use of a gun.
I'd suggest taking a long surf on the web and ID some of these entities. Just the little I've learned shows me it is a complicated subject. Situational awareness, command voice, characteristics of a prey, characteristics of a preditor, less than lethal force, weapons, force continuum, use of lethal force, duty to retreat, post incident psychology, ad nauseum.
Your past posts indicate you possess a methodical streak. Use it!
I'll just make a suggestion. There is any number of companies // organizations // personnel out there who specialize in teaching // training in personal protection. Most feature training in the use of guns. There are others that teach // train in all facets of personal protection. There is a guy in my home town that teaches personal protection techniques, one of which involves the use of a gun.
I'd suggest taking a long surf on the web and ID some of these entities. Just the little I've learned shows me it is a complicated subject. Situational awareness, command voice, characteristics of a prey, characteristics of a preditor, less than lethal force, weapons, force continuum, use of lethal force, duty to retreat, post incident psychology, ad nauseum.
Your past posts indicate you possess a methodical streak. Use it!
MeekAndMild
New member
May work for men but not for women. Mentally ill women get raped about 3-5 times as often as non mentally ill women. I think it may be related to the BG figuring she'd never get it together to testify against him. This staring off into space business would work the same way.
I don't believe women should wear high heels, dangling ear rings and scarves unless they are with a man. While a spike heel might be a weapon if the shoe is taken off they make the ankles unstable. scarves and earrings can be grabbed by the BG with bad results.
A good pair of hard soled shoes (are boots still in style for women these days?) can do wonders against a sissy boy who thinks he's tough if struck down the inner forward surface of the shin, right over the bone. Aiming just below the knob of the bone below the knee and raking down can produce enough pain to keep somebody occupied for weeks.
I'm not a trained instructor nor ninja nor anything like that so just take these as observations and not advice.
Malone LaVeigh
New member
Of course, you never know how one beligerent person will react to your response, and I'm not a woman, so don't know how it feels to be one, but I have to disagree with the advice to avoid eye contact. I am 5'8" and weigh about 130 soaking wet, so I have never been able to count on intimidation as a response, either. But I learned a little trick in many years of martial arts training. Actually, it's not a trick in the sense of a technique, but a set of behaviors that I think sends the right message.
When first aware that a possible threat might come from some source, my attention is fixed on the source like a magnet. Trying to avoid contact communicates fear and an unwillingness to responsively relate to the situation. I want to know everything that person is doing or even thinking about doing. The only way to do that is to fix your attention on them and cultivate an attitude of extreme psychic (I don't mean supernatural) openness to them. That's scary, but if you can really open up with it, it is even more scary to them.
So your focus is on them, but your awareness must also include yourself. The feeling is "I don't have anything to hide." Whatever emotions you are feeling, let them out. Look them in the eye and let them see the fear, panic, anger, confusion, whatever. That's what it feels like to you, at first, but what they see is someone who in right there with them in the present and ready to handle the situation. Not someone trying to avoid or get away from the situation.
People, except for saints, zen samurai and crazy people, don't normally act like that. Done right, it can be very disconcerting. I lived and worked in some nasty neighborhoods in Oakland, Berkeley and San Fran for many years. Never owned a car and took the bus and BART at some godawful hours, being a stagehand at the time. Also never carried a gun, but a folding Buck knife was never out of reach. Working on "being present in the moment" served me in more than one situation.
When first aware that a possible threat might come from some source, my attention is fixed on the source like a magnet. Trying to avoid contact communicates fear and an unwillingness to responsively relate to the situation. I want to know everything that person is doing or even thinking about doing. The only way to do that is to fix your attention on them and cultivate an attitude of extreme psychic (I don't mean supernatural) openness to them. That's scary, but if you can really open up with it, it is even more scary to them.
So your focus is on them, but your awareness must also include yourself. The feeling is "I don't have anything to hide." Whatever emotions you are feeling, let them out. Look them in the eye and let them see the fear, panic, anger, confusion, whatever. That's what it feels like to you, at first, but what they see is someone who in right there with them in the present and ready to handle the situation. Not someone trying to avoid or get away from the situation.
People, except for saints, zen samurai and crazy people, don't normally act like that. Done right, it can be very disconcerting. I lived and worked in some nasty neighborhoods in Oakland, Berkeley and San Fran for many years. Never owned a car and took the bus and BART at some godawful hours, being a stagehand at the time. Also never carried a gun, but a folding Buck knife was never out of reach. Working on "being present in the moment" served me in more than one situation.