Hand Loading For Disaster

[oneounceload]

Since I do not shoot as much metallic as I used to, I got rid of the Dillon progressive I once had. Loading on a single stage press in batches of 50, I can check the powder drops, even in tiny 32ACP cases easily to ensure they aren't doubled.

I see here and on other forums new folks wanting to get into this aspect of shooting who are only interested in cranking out as many rounds as fast as possible - they also seem to be the ones who like to shoot as many as fast as possible - and that, IMO, can be a disaster in the making.

Reloading isn't exactly rocket science, but to be successful the correct procedures does have to replicated consistently over and over. If certain steps are rushed or glossed over - such as seating depth and powder drops, the potential for an "OOPS" is great and may go undiscovered until it is too late.

I have never had any issues, but I also don't load to max in ANY of my rifle or handgun cartridges, as I find my guns' accuracy to be better with something generally in the mid-range of load data.

This can be a fun hobby, but a modicum of common sense and an ability to follow east directions completely is necessary

 

[4runnerman]

(That's an optional operation, something I NEVER do. The flash hole is never blocked after the decapping pin has removed the primer. The primer pocket cleaning is also optional)

Any one i show how to reload,,That is not an option it is another step that SHOULD Be done. As i tell them (do it right or don't do it at all.) It also add one more chance for a case look over while your at it. And as you mentioned ensures no media in pocket.

 

[wncchester]

All good info.

Now, how do we get stupid people to read and follow all these instructions and tips?

 

[maillemaker]

Any one i show how to reload,,That is not an option it is another step that SHOULD Be done.

This seems to be assuming you are not working with a progressive reloader. If you are feeding a progressive reloader spent, but still primed brass, then you have no opportunity to inspect nor clean the primer pocket and/or hole.

Now I have taken to using my progressive die to deprime all my brass before final cleaning. I wet-tumble my brass to clean it, then I deprime it, then I tumble them again to clean the primer pockets.

I like being able to look at the primer pocket/hole, and have found 8 Winchester .45ACP rounds with larger-than-normal flash holes. I don't know why they are different or if it would make a difference in how they operated, but I held them out of circulation.

I just called RCBS about their Powder Cop Die. They make a die that can detect no-charges and over-charges and it locks up the progressive loader in either condition.

Unfortunately you must have at least a 4-station reloader for this to work, and preferably a 5-station.

In my 3-station Lee Pro1000, station one sizes/deprimes, station two bells and drops powder, and station 3 seats the bullet and crimps the case.

You obviously have to install the powder cop die in between the last two dies.

And if you want to seat the bullet and crimp the case in separate dies, you would need 5 stations.

Steve

 

[4runnerman]

(Now, how do we get stupid people to read and follow all these instructions and tips)

Thats the million dollar question. I don't think you can help all the people,they are so dead set in their ways and short of a hammer in the head or a bad expirence they will never change. Lots of people just load to shoot,what ever is in front of them and they are not to picky about steps,just that it goes bang when they pull trigger.

 

[4runnerman]

Once again you have caught me Maillemaker. Yes all i post is single stage set up.For that i apoligize..

 

[mehavey]

I've been kidnapped 4 times, robbed 6 times, and had someone try to blow me up in my car twice. All but the car incidents was completely random. I'm that guy who is for some reason out of the statistics of average. Oh., I've also been the person to save 3 women from being raped and interupted/stopped 2 other kidnappings.

I cannot resist....

That said, 700cdl, some of the discussions elsewhere here on the board do bear out your concern for [some significant number of] folks not taking an informed/measured approach to re-loading. Thankfully, this kind of board/information source goes a long way toward keeping those numbers much lower than might otherwise be the case. Thanks for starting the thread.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

(That's an optional operation, something I NEVER do. The flash hole is never blocked after the decapping pin has removed the primer. The primer pocket cleaning is also optional)

Any one i show how to reload,,That is not an option it is another step that SHOULD Be done. As i tell them (do it right or don't do it at all.) It also add one more chance for a case look over while your at it. And as you mentioned ensures no media in pocket.

Do you also teach them to check with a hook scribe for head separation every time, turn their case necks, sort cases for weight, etc. ? Why stop at cleaning flash holes? "Do it right or don't do it at all."

These (including cleaning the primer pocket & flash hole) are steps that may be warranted, based on the personal preferences of the reloader. I think it is great to introduce new loaders to these optional steps, in case they want to do them. But I certainly don't recommend that everyone does them.

Andy

 

[ipscchef]

I am sorry, there have been some good responses to this thread, But my BS meter is pegged to the wall, and the needle is about to fly off. Unless the OP can provide some Bona Fides as to his experiences and times, dates etc. about the occurrences of what he speaks about, I call BS on him. I have been around and done some things, but this guy sounds too much like the "Lucky in Kentucky" thread from 2005. If you have not read it, do yourself a favor and thread search it it, amazingly funny and insightful as far as what some people will do to garner attention.
So Mr. 700 CDL, thrill us with your accumen, more importantly, back up your stories with names, dates, times, etc. and I will apologise to you. Until then, I call BS on you, Sir.
Bill "Willy" Henderson

 

[4runnerman]

Do you also teach them to check with a hook scribe for head separation every time, turn their case necks, sort cases for weight, etc. ? Why stop at cleaning flash holes? "Do it right or don't do it at all

Well Big Jake- as a matter of fact i do. Im a bench rest shooter so yes i do run them through all steps and that is part of the steps. I don't do the hook scribe,no,but sort by case weight very much so. I don't hunt any more so now im into exreame accuracy and that is one step i do. You don't?.

 

[WANT A LCR 22LR]

"" Geez you guys make me want to give up reloading.

I started right off with a progressive reloader (Lee Pro1000). ""

The only real way to get a double charge with that setup is to interrupt the sequence, charge with powder, remove the case then put the case back into the charging station.

If you always cycle the lever full stroke you won't have a 2x charge. In the few times that I have a sequence error, I pull the case and inspect powder levels or if I'm not sure, dump the cases on the press, run the rest of the batch, then cycle one at a time since they already have good primers.

For normal reloading, blow up errors are going to be huge ones not a few extra flakes of powder or bullet seated .001 too far. Still, one must pay attention to the process.

 

[4runnerman]

want a lcr- I can't argue with you as i know nothing at all about progressive set up. All i can do is take your word for it. I choose a singe stage just because i wanted to indivigually load one cartridge at a time by hand. Im sure they are much better for quanity. Im sure once you get the hang of it you will be very happy with it.

 

[sportrider]

Like AMAMNN said..."like the poor....idiots will always be with us". In everything we do in our lives whether it's hunting,fishing,driving,flying and yes handloading, idiots are there! When it comes to handloading I've always double checked my charges by reading the load data once,twice and sometimes three times knowing what it is before I start ( because I've loaded that powder for that "load" hundreds of times) but for safety sake. We are humans and I will never go off memory when it comes to load data.My press is very well lit so I can check physically each round to see if it's charged with powder and not double charged.You can tell someone how to do something a hundred times over but if it's not in them to take the time to make sure they do it right they are destined to fail. I'ts not your fault or anybody else's but that individuals fault for not taking the time to check to make sure they're doing everything correctly.Because of our current administration you have seen a huge increase of people wanting to get into reloading because of the obvious reasons,so by the increase of reloaders you are gonna see a rise in "accidents". " Like the poor....idiots will always be with us".

 

[700cdl]

Hello Wncchester, I appologize for my issues with scripting, it has been a long time problem of mine and you are nt the first to mention it. I'll try harder to limit my self to shorter descriptive phrases for you are all the others that have to out up with my posts.
Anyway, I think the real only solution is to just keep doing what we are all doing, that is to say, referr new comers or those obviously having some issues that raise red flags to expert reliable manuals and instruction resources that put things into an easy to understand language. I certainly don't have all the answers. I do however think that a combined effort can help to reduce the number of potential incidents that not only include injury and damaged guns, but also the heart break of a new comer losing the desire to ever load again. Hand loading for myself and others provides an exciting and rewarding experience, one I like to inspire others to part take of.

 

[ipscchef]

BS

700cdl,
Very well, and I hope I do not incur the wrath of the Mod's, but I still call BS on you. You have not once given any information that backs any of your dubious claims. Give us JUST ONE instance where you can give specifics, and again I will apologize to you. Until then, I consider you a liar.

Bill Henderson

 

[Whitemorph]

Regarding the powder charge

When I started reloading ammo over 45 years ago, I weighed every charge with the best scale I could afford. Then a few years into the hobby, I wanted to speed things up so I bought a Match-Grade powder measuring dispenser with separate micrometer chambers for rifle or pistol ammo from a top-of-the-line manufacturer. I had hoped to abandon the laborious practice of weighing every charge. But I weighed a number of charges from it and found that some charges varied as much as a grain more or less than what it was set for, even when I used exactly the same charging procedure every time. So now I just use it for getting a charge that is close and then I put it on the scale and trickle up to the desired weight.

One time I bought a red balance type powder scale from the manufacturer that brags about their accuracy. When I checked it against another scale of known accuracy, I found that it was a long way off calibration on the high end and there was no way to adjust it.

I now use a precision electronic scale that has an accuracy of ± 0.002 grain, and have precision test weights to periodically make sure it remains accurate. The $1500 price tag is offset by the peace of mind that my rounds are charged accurately. If I wanted to, it would allow me to easily measure charges as close as ± one flake of powder. Even with this fine instrument, I have to check it frequently for drift and re-zero it.

So, the point is that even new, top-of-the-line equipment can throw unexpected variations into the process that may be dangerous when working close to maximum pressures and therefore should be frequently cross checked with precision gauges or measuring standards.

Safe shooting, everyone!

 

[WESHOOT2]

I don't save the pics anymore

But I used to (got numerous HDs around the house holding pic data of blowed-up guns).

AA#9 and 800x, in some rounds, would have to almost be compressed with a wooden dowel and a hammer in order to fit enough in the case to cause a catastrophic failure.

This was suposed to be secret.........

 

[wncchester]

duplicate---

 

[wncchester]

"I think the real only solution is to just keep doing what we are all doing,"

Well, I suppose that's good, so far as it goes, but it doesn't go very far. Going back to your original premise, it's clear that continuing to do what we have been doing will to continue to achieve the same results; stupidity can't be stopped.

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Two free thoughts on writing, for what they're worth to anyone:

The idea and goals of punctuation isn't based on short, declaritive sentences, it's done to seperate or organise different ideas and topics so readers can follow the thoughts. No matter how animated we may be thinking as we write, without punctuation it quickly becomes a dull monotone-drone to those trying to read it. So, without at least a modicum of punctuation many of those we wish to reach will simply ignore it.

Politicians and the "news" media constantly use hyperbole to grab attention. It works for kids and libbruls but most mature people know when something is vastly overstated simply to grab attention. Intelligent people tend to ignore (or even laff) at obvious exaggerations so it actually detracts from the credibilty of a statement.

 

[Hog Buster]

This has to be the most bizarre thread I have ever read. A very tedious read, because of writing style and laced with much bovine scat (in my opinion) by the original poster. It rambles around about a rarely seen occurrence, offers no real remedy to said occurrence and ends with advice to leave things status quo.......????