Hairy situation here in Texas

[Chaparral]

You're taking this way too personally and going a bit overboard. I doubt they were Mormons, but someone being drunk, Hispanic, and having tattoos doesn't automatically mean they're going to assault you. Would I have been cautious in that situation? Damn right. Would I have walked towards them if I felt the only way to do so safely was with a drawn firearm? No. Has anyone here asked you to "apologize"? To my knowledge, no. Relax. As for the Texas comment, it was a joke in reference to a viral YouTube video. I am confident that the people of Texas can survive some very gentle ribbing.

You posted something to the internet to a discussion forum. People commented on it. That's how this works. Now you're mad at the people that didn't agree?

Did anyone here say they were drunk? Did anyone say I walked toward them? Man simply get your facts straight before talking a bunch but really saying nothing.

 

[shafter]

So let's look at this from another angle. What happens when the three individuals you encountered get inside your personal space and start giving you a hard time? Maybe one gives you a small push but nothing life threatening. You can't just shoot them for it, and as you said, you're an old guy without much fighting ability left so how are you going to resolve that?

No one likes the feeling of others having control over their lives but if you end up shooting someone you shouldn't have then every waking moment of the rest of your life will be dictated to you. In prison.

 

[TunnelRat]

You're right. You didn't say they were drunk. You said one had a beer bottle in his hands. I interpreted that as they were potentially drunk, similar to you interpreted they might be MS13. I was wrong and I apologize. And yes they walked towards you. You obviously were concerned that your path might draw their attention and bring them over to you as you chose to walk gun in hand. I don't think these factors invalidate everything I've said here, but I'll leave that to others.

 

[Chaparral]

So let's look at this from another angle. What happens when the three individuals you encountered get inside your personal space and start giving you a hard time? Maybe one gives you a small push but nothing life threatening. You can't just shoot them for it, and as you said, you're an old guy without much fighting ability left so how are you going to resolve that?

No one likes the feeling of others having control over their lives but if you end up shooting someone you shouldn't have then every waking moment of the rest of your life will be dictated to you. In prison.

Shafter, I'm afraid to actually say what I am about to say, but in the state of Texas many things can constitute a weapon. I never wanted to say this but I have been in law enforcement, around law enforcement, and taught law enforcement since late 70's. Presently I teach at a Texas college. If I were assaulted by these three, at my age, this would constitute a weapon in itself. A simple push or shove or making fun is not grounds. But if it broke out into stealing my property, an assault that escalated to the point where I feared for my life just from being overcome by young people obviously stronger, using fist and feet or whatever than yes lethal force is justified. Remember, feet and hands are listed as a weapon. People are beat to death every day. In my situation deadly force was not justified. Had he swung the bottle I would have dropped him. Also, you are taught when dealing with weapons you never want to be out done so to speak. In other words if he raises his hands you raise a stick, if he raises a stick you raise a gun and so on. I once saw a man here in Texas take his belt off that had a big rodeo buckle and start swinging it. The other guy pulled a pistol and killed him. The man was not charged.

 

[mgulino]

Chaparral,

I'm glad all worked out well for you and the three young men. I've never been in a similar situation, but I do have a couple of questions for you.

You wrote that you drove into the parking lot, parked and saw three young men across the parking lot. You THEN drew your weapon and approached the hotel/room entrance, while the three men approached you from across the parking lot.

Here are my questions...How far away from you were they when you actually drew your weapon? If a shooting had occurred, and a justifiable reason had to be determined, would avoidance have been a better option?

 

[FireForged]

Yeah you are completely right. I should have just drove around in circles going to convenient stores snacking on peanuts and circling the parking lot until they were gone

You likely had several options at your disposal and opted to grab a gun( in hand) and walk headlong into a situation that you already had a sense of foreboding about. Maybe 5 minutes would have made the difference, maybe observing them for a few moments would have given you an honest level of articulable suspicion that you could have reported to police and have them checked out. Maybe the hotel has security or other agent who could determine if they were loitering or guest and handle the problem for you. Maybe they were hotel staff on break .. who knows? Your effort to mitigate the problem seemed to be ( the gun). I am not saying that you did anything wrong, immoral, unethical or illegal. I am simply suggesting that there may have been a more prudent way to at least try to mitigate danger and I have already mentioned it. If you didn't want to do any of those things, fine but the story makes for rather easy criticism.

As I said earlier, you did a good job ( rather exceptional) job at observing critical nuances as well as how those nuances translated into potential danger.

I am simply a firm supporter of the basic edicts of personal safety and I would have made at least a passing effort to avoid giving them an opportunity to confront me. I am not saying I would sit in my car for an hour or significantly derail my plans because 3 guys look suspicious in a parking lot but I would have done a little more before grabbing a gun. That's just me

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Anyhow back to my story. I truly was trying to point out things that might save your life. I'm sorry for having a snubnose at that time, I'm sorry for not camping in my truck, I NEVER walked toward anyone but they walked across a parking lot to get to me! Many years ago I took a combat pistol course in Oklahoma (oh my gosh can this be worse than my state of Texas?). One instructor was teaching awareness and PREPARATION. In the story I emphasized watching their hands. He taught us that their eyes will not kill you but their hands will. My eyes were locked on their hands. (Gee I hope that doesn't offend someone.) Annnnddddd he also happen to mention watch them attempting to distract you. He actually said it may be as simple as asking you the time. He said that one second of looking at your watch or cell phone may mean your life. So that is why I said my watch didn't work. Now I know these young innocent lads from the First Baptist Church of Houston that I portrayed so horribly were probably about to witness to me about Jesus. I feel so horrible now for trying to stay alert and possibly defending myself. And I apologize for being from Texas.

Your sarcasm is underwhelming, and uncalled for.

Nobody made you post about this incident. You chose to do so. I don't know what your motive was in doing so, but surely you must have understood that by posting you would invite comments. If you weren't prepared to accept comments that have been offered in good faith, then -- candidly -- you should not have posted the story.

 

[reteach]

^^^
What he said. Also, please don't blame it on being from Texas. A lot of us in Texas can take constructive criticism.

I wouldn't have wanted to turn my back to those guys, either. But I wouldn't have felt a need to stop and engage with them. Just walk past and into the hotel, probably with my hand on my gun, but probably not a drawn gun.

 

[Leaf]

Chaparral, I'm not trying to pile on. You mentioned a little about your training and experience in a prior post and I'm sure you recall hearing about the concept "tombstone courage" at some point in your training/travels, right? It is a good perspective to keep in mind and I should mention most of us aren't beyond making similar mistakes. Realistically though, would you have wanted your sig other or say one of your kids to handle that situation as you did?

 

[TXAZ]

It's major pucker factor, and I'm glad it turned out ok for you.
I had a somewhat similar encounter 'years' ago when I stumbled upon then held 2 burglars at gunpoint till the cops showed up. You don't know what the bad guys are going to do, it's very easy to Monday-morning-quarterback-should'of-would'of... whatever.

Congrats on surviving.

 

[Leaf]

TXAZ, I think he described a situation substantially different from you being in a situation where you're holding two burglars at bay. And quite frankly, if one or both of the two burglary suspects you were detaining had decided to get up and run, if you had shot them you probably would have spent some time in prison in most jurisdictions in the U.S.

 

[Dufus]

Who the hell would shoot someone running away??

As far as I know, only a bad guy or girl.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Spread out at 10, 12 and 2 o'clock?
Engaged the person in a useless conversation as a means of distraction?

It was certainly an intended armed robbery and they weren't fundraising for the Salvation Army.

 

[Leaf]

^^^^ Someone who thinks it is ok to shoot a fleeing suspected burglar.

 

[USNRet93]

Not going to comment on what the gent did or didn't do BUT if the guy with a bottle, turned it around to act like a bludgeon, and feeling threatened, you shot him....not sure if the resulting LEO would view this as a 'stand your ground' issue..I don't know but it probably would have opened a YUGE can of worms for you.

Ahh, once again, RTFP, Read The Farging Posts...OP knew his rights and was prepared in case the situation escalated to something 'life threatening'...

Guy in a neighborhood close to mine..got outta car in his driveway..guy walked up, smacked him with something and stole his wallet. If I saw somebody wandering around my street(cul-de-sac) that I didn't recognize, I would get outta car, watch him..and maybe with my CCW weapon, out, behind my leg. If he approached, at distance, confront politely, 'can I help you' type stuff..if he says nothing, continues to close, if he has anything in his hand..he's going to see my gun...

 

[Don P]

When I drove up I saw 3 young Hispanic guys with tattoos on their faces standing in the parking lot. I pulled my SW mdl 60 Chief Special out and placed it in my rt hand with my coat over my hand and arm.I had the barrel pointing forward

Not to stereo type folks. Your first impression was correct and as MANY have stated avoidance would have been the smartest choice. When it is possible avoiding the situation is always best. Imagine the outcome if things went sideways on you. That sixth sense should have been in play. Oh the choices we make.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We are beating this to death. The sensible consensus, with no insult to the OP, is that avoidance was the more reasonable action path.

For the general readership, quality FOF training will give you a feel for what happens in such situations.

I don't want to close it but can we not be repetitous? It's not really a poll.

 

[HiBC]

This comment is not specific to the OP,its a general comment.
Remember youths pack cellphones. They can use communications tactically.

If I see three,and I'm totally focused on my 10,12,and 2 oclock...my tunnel vision leaves me vulnerable to a ball pein hammer to the base of my skull from number 4 thug.

And checking 6 oclock is a moments distraction from the immediate frontal threat.

"Looks like a potential ambush" is another good hunch to listen to.


Wisdom ain't the same as chicken.

 

[Chaparral]

Chaparral,

I'm glad all worked out well for you and the three young men. I've never been in a similar situation, but I do have a couple of questions for you.

You wrote that you drove into the parking lot, parked and saw three young men across the parking lot. You THEN drew your weapon and approached the hotel/room entrance, while the three men approached you from across the parking lot.

Here are my questions...How far away from you were they when you actually drew your weapon? If a shooting had occurred, and a justifiable reason had to be determined, would avoidance have been a better option?

I agree that avoidance is the best option. To answer your questions : I never drew the weapon. When I drove up and seeing these 3 hispanic dudes with tattoos on their faces (I'm talking cheeks, forehead, etc) I felt very uncomfortable. I have had to take numerous classes in my job on Texas gangs and their appearance sent red flags up. So I parked a good distance from them. I would say 75 yds or so. This was a small lot. My pistol was in my console, not on me. When I exited the vehicle I pulled my pistol out of the console, dropped my coat over that hand and arm, and had a over night bag in my left hand. Where I parked I had to walk at an angle away from them to get to my door. As soon as I started walking across the lot I saw them walking at an angle that would intercept me. Never once did I walk toward them with pistol raised. But when they intercepted me (in front of my door) that is when I did raise the my arm and the gun under the coat. And as I have already said, yes avoidance is great. But as I have shared, these cats came to me. Another thing was is that I didn't have a whole lot of money with me for a Hilton. This was a motel with doors on the outside. After they walked off I did not open my door, I went straight to the hotel entrance. I was afraid of opening the door in front of them.

 

[FireForged]

I never drew the weapon

I pulled my SW mdl 60 Chief Special out and placed it in my rt hand with my coat over my hand and arm.I had the barrel pointing forward

So you are carrying a weapon in your hand, "pointed forward" with a coat laying over it but you don't consider that "drawn" for the purpose of this discussion? If its not "drawn" is it stowed away? If you had it stored elsewhere and now have it in your hand "pointed forward".. what do you call that?


What ever happened to these 3 scary men? Did they ever do anything to anyone? Did you report them? Did the police come and check them out?