Guy acting drunk in the yard: scenario and poll

[Capt. Charlie]

He was diabetic. His insulin level spiked.

Yep. I've dealt with this several times over the years, but I'm curious about this:

...his breath smelled like he was drunk.

We were taught that the breath of a diabetic in insulin shock smells like acetone (like nail polish remover), and my experience attests to that. In fact, modern BAC machines (Breathalyzer) can distinguish between alcohol and acetone, and will warn the operator if acetone is present.

Perhaps he was drinking as well? At any rate, our SOP in dealing with odd behavior like that is to have paramedics check them out before we leave the scene.

 

[Skans]

But... I guess it was his choice to get drunk, or not take care of his diabetes, or whatever, so if he staggers into the street and gets hit by a car it will be his own fault.

.

Yep, that's how I see it. I'm not a "save the world" type person. On the other hand, I've had my share of times where I've stopped and rendered aid to complete strangers who is injured, lying in the middle of the street or nearly dead lying on the side of the road. I'm pretty good at being able to judge the difference between a drunken bum and someone who is hurt and in need of help.

Someone staggering down the road who clearly looks like a drunken bum in my neighborhood is not someone I choose to help. He's someone I want out of my neighborhood. He's not someone for whom I'm going to leave my front yard and run inside of the house over. Nor am I going to call the police if he's just walking down the street. I'm going to stand my ground, observe the guy, but not help him or antagonize him in any manner whatsoever - other than stare at him. I really don't understand those of you who have some kind of problem with this. To each his own, I guess.

 

[Dwight55]

Going back and forth between options 1 and 2, . . . I voted 2.

I'm a pastor, . . . and a people person, . . . at this point there is nothing that would put a rational fear in me, . . . especially since I have my 1911 and an automobile.

If he is dragging his feet, . . . stumbling a little, . . . I'll just start with keeping the automobile between me and him, . . . have a little chat, . . . point him in the right direction, . . . and be done with it.

I'd even be tempted to offer to make him a sandwich and get him a soft drink as I would surmize he was sleeping on the ground not too long ago, and is probably homeless and hungry.

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[jgcoastie]

Does it matter that he is not of your race?

In certain areas of certain towns in many states: Yes, it does.

It is regrettable, but also true.

 

[Therealkoop]

"What? the park? Its like, 8 blocks that way! No, Im not driving you there."

I would probably say something along those lines while I continued my work. If he started getting shady I would just go inside. If he tried to get inside, well, then I might consider pulling my firearm.

 

[rtpzwms]

I would go inside and call the police. This person may need help and there are laws regarding public drunkenness. You have not been close enough to properly evaluate this person and that is why we have the men and women in blue. To all I know he may need help be suicidal I would want someone to come to help me if I was in this condition. The police are the best equipped to handle these things. This is not always good guy, bad guy but may be someone in trouble. What if he is a bad guy and you let him walk. How would you feel if you saw him and did nothing? What happens if he rapes someone just down the street 45 min. later? I don't want to live with the though that I could have helped and did nothing. No I will defend life only, property can be replaced.

 

[BaboonBlockParty]

I'd just watch the guy. In my experience, people like that usually aren't studying you in the least bit. I pick up hitchhikers from time to time; they don't have a car because they're down on their luck that's all. 9 out of 10 times, they just want a ride.

 

[Rampant_Colt]

fear is our most primal emotion

I'd just watch the guy. In my experience, people like that usually aren't studying you in the least bit. I pick up hitchhikers from time to time; they don't have a car because they're down on their luck that's all. 9 out of 10 times, they just want a ride.

Or it's Charles Manson out looking for his next victim. Hitchhikers? Seriously?


The original post is the type of scenario you don't want to get involved in if avoidable.. Emotionally Disturbed Person (EDP)= Unpredictable and irrational behavior

 

[Huzyerdaddy]

Call your health caare providor and see if you can have him added to your plan to get him the help he needs

 

[Magnum-PI]

Things to consider...

1) You can't use your pistol as a means to control...the pistol can only be used in self defense when there is an immediate clear and present danger to yourself or however the law is worded in your state. I dont believe any state will allow a person to use a pistol as a means of control.

2) If you draw your pistol when its not justified, then you might have comitted the felony of assault with a firearm. The further away the guy is from you, the less justified drawing your pistol becomes.

3) Drawing your pistol elevates everything to an entirely different level. He may charge at you, surrender or do just about anything. Someone observing from far away might think you are the one in the wrong and draw/fire on you.

4) A man at full sprint can cover ten feet in a few seconds. So to prevent the guy from hitting you or to give you more time then you are best to increase the distance. Even 5-10 more feet away will give you at least another 1-2 seconds so you can react. 4-5 seconds of time is much better then 2-3 seconds of time.

5) Someone clubbing a vehicle is different then someone clubbing a person. If someone is banging on a car then no one is getting hurt just yet. No reason to draw at that point.

6) Sometimes its best to keep a straight face and say nothing. If you smile or frown, then either of those expressions can be interpretted by someone as a hostile act. If you yell at the guy, then again, it takes things to another level.

Here is my humble personal opinion. I believe the best action would be to increase your distance away from this individual to at least 50-100 feet and observe. Hide yourself so that if he looks over in your direction it wont be obvious. If he decides to move towards you, then keep going in the other direction. The only time it might be justified to draw your weapon is if he decides to charge you at a full sprint, he is within about 15-20 feet and you are unable to retreat fast enough. The only time it might be justified to fire your weapon is if he is in full charge, you cant retreat fast enough and he is about to hit you with the club.

In any event, the best action is to retreat, observe from a distance and only become involved if this person is right about to hit you or another individual. Any other action might get you into trouble with the final arbiter being a judge or jury. Before drawing your pistol, always ask yourself if its worth going to jail over. If its not worth it, then dont draw.

The question posed in this thread seems valid, but the mention of the person's race puts a dark cloud over it. If I were the mod, I would edit out the mention of the race or at least say something publicly that putting that in the thread wasnt the right thing to do.

 

[blazeops]

From the scenario given and without adding more to it, I choose option 1.

From the details, he is not threatening and appears to be gesturing with the stick so I will take it at face value. I would ignore him (opposite race wouldn't bother me...my wife is a different race) and head to the house. Of course, I would watch him and make sure I am positioned to react if he closed the distance. Once in the house, I would call 911, describe the man's pedigree and mention that he is incoherent ... possibly drunk, ill or mentally ill. I would mention that he is holding a stick but would emphasize that he is non-violent. I would request an ambulance and the police.

In this scenario there is no need to get cops hurt rushing to a scene thinking that there is a violent man weiding a stick. So I would definitely emphasize non-violent. I live in a big city...once you hear man with a weapon...other units will back you up. So you have several units trying to get to the scene quickly which can cause accidents (tunnel vision while driving, etc...).

 

[5.56RifleGuy]

I would say go in the house and call 911 if it bothers you. Once the cops come and remove him, you can go back to doing whatever it was in the yard.

 

[bdb benzino]

The fact you even contimplated pulling your pistol bothers me. Not knowing how someone is going to act and defending your self from a deadly attack with a pistol are 2 different scenarios.

 

[Sport45]

Y'all do what you want. I'll stand my ground. IMHO, this country is made up of way too many people afraid to stand their ground in the face of a mild threat, instead relying on some hired-hand government employee to "protect" them.

I've been a Texan all my life and I hear what you're saying. But keep in mind that when the Texicans stood their ground against General Santa Anna's army, they did it from behind the walls of the Alamo (and missions in San Jacinto, Goliad, etc.). They lasted a lot longer that way. Think about it, if there's a chance you'll be taking someone on wouldn't you prefer to have cover? What if the stick isn't his only weapon?

Again, I wouldn't talk to the guy. My action would be to point in the direction of the park and keep about my business. If the situation changed, so would my reaction.

 

[animal]

Some things are getting a little distorted …

He was shaking the stick at the cars while griping about them coming too close, etc… NOT striking at them or trying to hit them.

Details are scattered in the post, some can be combined with others to yield pertinent information or explain why some details were omitted (why I wasn’t able to notice some things and recognizing a limitation of knowledge that may be important). For instance, "Of another race" and "never seen him before" can be combined to explain why no information about his pallor was included. "Paleness"(according to conversations I’ve had with black friends) is at least sometimes hard for black people to detect in whites that they don’t know. The reverse is also true of whites noticing "redness" or "paleness" in blacks that they don’t know(at least it’s true in my case). Most people are simply more familiar with the wide variations of natural skin tone and sub-variations (which give clues to the person’s health) within their own race because of greater experience with those of their own race. (sigh … If we don’t grow up about this stuff, we’ll lose the ground that’s been gained here.)

The other way race was relevant was from his perspective and didn’t become apparent until after the initial exchange of words. IMO, the most valid reason for race to be a consideration in situations like this is that if the person appears mentally impaired in some way, interacting with a person "of another race" is more likely to affect his comfort level. Any way you are different from them can become a liability .. the way you are dressed, how you speak (or how they expect you to speak), the way you carry yourself, etc… This very much includes the most obvious observable differences such as race. This turned out to be a factor later, though I was a little surprised at the specifics.

A few details can be inferred by looking outside the body of the post and narrow probabilities to explain what might have been going on. For instance, I stated the time and that this actually happened to me. Thus, not only the time and date may be relevant, but other stuff such as my location listed in the sidebar. I threw this curve ball in for fun to see if people would be "situationally aware", since so much is made of awareness on this board… and to represent things which are so obvious they are often unnoticed … one of which I failed to fully consider in real life.

All that said, the post isn’t a logic puzzle as it has no set solution, only a narrowing of probabilities. Just a slice of life that happened the other day ... a judgment call, imo.
If you want to think of me or the post as racist because I admit ignorance to various nuances of black people’s skin color, fine. That’s also your judgment call.

 

[kadima]

Had I shot all the drunk or strangely behaving people I've met in my life, the undertaker's sons would all be named after either my first or middle name
and there wouldn't be any wood left on my revolver's grips, due to all the killmarks.

Anyone of you who had been in a big European city around a railway station knows what I mean.

K.

 

[Elvishead]

The choices :

1. retreat to house, ignore him, or give directions to the park at a distance

2. Approach in the most non-threatening way possible, weapon fully concealed, hands where he can see them, speaking to him, etc.

3. Command him to drop the stick and be ready to draw your pistol.

4. Draw pistol, command him to drop stick, etc

You kid's! You'll learn.

There is more than one, two, three, or four options!

How old are you?

 

[Skans]

5) Someone clubbing a vehicle is different then someone clubbing a person. If someone is banging on a car then no one is getting hurt just yet. No reason to draw at that point.

Are you kidding me! Someone walks off the street, apparently drunk or deranged walks up your driveway and starts clubbing your car while you are standing there. Sorry folks, at that point, my gun comes out - I will draw on this person.

 

[blazeops]

If you want to think of me or the post as racist because I admit ignorance to various nuances of black people’s skin color, fine. That’s also your judgment call.

Animal, were you refering to a specific post? I don't see anyone saying that this post or you were racist and personally don't see it that way.

 

[Sport45]

Are you kidding me! Someone walks off the street, apparently drunk or deranged walks up your driveway and starts clubbing your car while you are standing there. Sorry folks, at that point, my gun comes out - I will draw on this person.

If I was a soothsayer I would predict that one day you will find yourself on the wrong side of the law. No matter how right you believe you are...