Gun Store Attitude

[blackmind]

Why is it that following these discussions always comes the WEAK argument of, "Open your own shop"?

I never said I wanted to.
I never said I could do it better.
I never said it was cheap to do.
I never said it was fun.
I never said the hours weren't long.
I never said the hassles weren't many.

But I don't agree that anyone who decides to endure all that should have carte blanche to essentially spit in the faces of his customers.

Even if there were no issue about the ammo sales, just the air conditioning issue alone is enough to make me realize that this guy doesn't give a flying f*(# about his customers. It's moneymoneymoneymoneymoney to a guy like this.

Ever think about how much money a diner, or a Walmart, or an auto parts store could save if they turned off the air conditioning? But DO they?

This is a business that is saying that you can shove it up your ass if you want to find prices that are better than what they offer.

What they are essentially doing is blackballing anyone who goes out and finds a place that beats their prices, for beating their prices.

That's a bullying tactic. It's indefensible.


-blackmind

 

[Trip20]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting it to be a smart ass. I was genuine when I suggested you might steel the business for a 50 mile radius.

If I owned a clothing store, and you came to my store to use my dressing room for a fee, and I said you may only try on clothes that I sell, not clothes that Walmart sells.... and you had a problem with this...

I'd tell you to GTFO.

And then if you started in on me about not having my air conditioning on, I'd tell you I can't afford it this month because everyone is buying their clothes at Walmart and expects to use my dressing room.

Then I'd break out a calculator to show you I can't keep this place open for much longer with revenue generated only from my dressing room charge!

I voted NO in your poll. I voted no due to the implication that all the ranges are gettin' together in a price hike. I didn't vote no because I think theres something wrong with a business man trying to.... well.... stay in business.

 

[Dog Confetti]

Why would anybody open, or even go to an indoor range? Honest question (I can think of only one answer and it's not a good one)...

 

[blackmind]

Confetti, because it's balls-hot in Florida this time of year, and very unpleasant to bake under the hot sun on an outdoor range.

Trip, how do you explain away the fact that for decades on end, people could buy their ammo wherever they wanted to, and go to a gun shop/range that charged to shoot there, and all was hunky-dory? They stayed in business. Some, though not all, range customers bought their ammo and targets, and some did not. There is also the sale of guns, scopes, grips, slings, cases, earmuffs, shooting glasses, spotting scopes, handcuffs, knives... to supplement the guy's income.

Ammo and targets are not all these stores sell. You can't claim that their business is made or broken based on my buying ammo at Walmart. You might as well try to argue that most car washes are trying to stay afloat based on what they charge for those cheap tree-shaped air fresheners.

If the gun shop were truly operating based on a market economy model, they would get our ammo business not by EXTORTING us to buy from them, but by offering a better selection than Walmart, and/or offering BETTER PRICES than Walmart.

And most of us would not mind supporting a local small-guy gun shop if each box cost us, say, a dollar more than Walmart is selling for. But this ******* charged me FIVE BUCKS for 100 rounds of .22LR, after I bought FIVE HUNDRED FIFTY ROUNDS for ONLY TEN BUCKS. That's TWO HUNDRED FIFTY PERCENT MARKUP. That's not trying to stay in business -- that's trying to make a killing. Personally, I hope the ******* and his wife and kids end up on the street. I don't take kindly to having my patronage abused like that. I did buy a Spyderco knife from him not long before, and spent $125 on that, which was way marked-up as it was. (You should SEE his knife prices! )


-blackmind

 

['75Scout]

I guess things are different in the south because in the local gunshops I have been in I have been treated with respect and all my questions were kindly answered, no matter how stupid the questions were. And that impresses me alot because not many Gunstore owners pay any attention to kid's (I'm 19). Anytime someone three times my age treats me with respect instead of like another stupid punk whose just window shopping, then they've got my business.

 

[joab]

Why would anybody open, or even go to an indoor range

Because we've allowed to many people to move here and all the open spaces and secluded woods and landfills have been plowed over and built up and there are no more places to shoot outside, even some of the old outdoor ranges have civilization creeping up on them.

And I would also like to point out just for clarification this is not a Florida policy.
The worst some the ranges in my area of the state do is charge an extra $2 if you don't use their ammo.

 

[BerettaCougar]

What happens in Florida we get alot of people who move in from NY/NJ these people are very antigun and also sometimes have a good amount of money. They move near a range (Build a huge house near a range because ranges around here used to be secluded from residential neighborhoods) Then after moving near the range they complain about the noises. and then they use their "I dont want guns near my kids" tactic!! I HEARD IT BEFORE!!

The range in Dade City FL, is a beautiful 100yard outdoor range, back about 7 years ago it was in the middle of nowhere, range costs was 5 dollars per use, they provided targets, eye protection if you didnt have it, ear plugs if you didnt have them FOR FREE!! even a staple gun for your use if you didnt have your own staple gun. Well now the range is surrounded by houses, and they call the cops almost everyday complaining about the sound of gunfire. The cops told the range owner that he must limit people to slow aimed fire (no rapid fire/full auto) So now you have to limit your shots to one shot per 3 seconds!!! and the range now costs 10 dollars, and they are in the stages of charging for targets/ ear/eye protection. They have to close alot earlier than they used to before. There was once even little signs next to the road. one every few hundred yards leading up to the range, saying that the range was a hazard to children! and that they demand it be closed!!! The houses are HUGE, atleast a million dollars, and 3 out of 5 cars have NY tags on them, with the occasional NJ tag. in what used to be the middle of the sticks is now a subset of NY! stores are popping up left and right, and NY STYLE THIS, NY STYLE THAT is EVERYWHERE!!! Walk into any store there and you hear their accents, and if they find out youre in that town to use the range they give you attitude, you know the typical anti crap about guns killing people. (WITH THEIR ACCENTS....WOW I HATE IT) Now I used to live in NJ (For 4 years) and I am greatfull My family decided to move out! But I think too many people followed us!! :barf:

 

[BerettaCougar]

is that how you became the owner of a cougar?

HAHA!, no... I bought the cougar when it first was released and I love it few thousand rounds through it and no failures, accurate and very good on recoil.. I've had a few of my 1911 buddies pick one up. they all love it.

 

[Hello123]

A few stories that struck me as funny. I have worked behind the counter a time or two to help out a friend. My friends store deals in higher end guns, Beretta, Browning, etc.... So this guy comes in the store and takes up a large portion of the counter space and opens up several of gun cases. He pulls out some beat up sks. He proceeds to try to make some stellar deals, something of the order of, "How much will you give me for this? $200?." Our response, "No." He says, "Well, let me see that rifle behind you." Thus, I let him look at the rifle that had a price tag of 6 or 700 hundred dollars. He then proceeds to tell me that he will offer the sks plus 300 dollars and we can call it even. Again, no. After spending 20 minutes with this guy discussing deals, calibers, etc..., and being polite and honoring his point of view, he decides to not buy anything and look elsewhere. Ohh well, I guess that is business. But it is an insight into a gun stores position.

 

[glockmaster]

Another store closed

Just another prime example of store owner conduct. In my opinion you
will have a successful business if you treat everyone with respect when
they enter your business, it is just like someone shopping for an automobile
you shop for the best deals available. But if you want to be a jerk to people
when they ask some questions then you loose that customer, and many others
through word of mouth. Another store has closed in my area and i belive that
it was because of a bad attitude, i my self have gone into the shop and was ignored the whole time i was in, and i was the only customer in at the time.
And when i asked if they carried a certain caliber of ammo i did not even get an
answer. So again attitude makes or breaks you.

 

[gb_in_ga]

There are 2 gun dealers (not counting pawn shops) in the general vicinity of me. One is large, one is small. The large one has a much better supply of guns than the small one. The large one has prices a little lower than the smaller one.

I shop at the smaller one.

It isn't so much that it is closer, even though it is.
It isn't so much that the smaller one has a range, and the bigger one doesn't, even though that is the case.
It isn't the prices -- the smaller one is actually somewhat more expensive.

It is all about customer service.

I find the counter help at the big store to be rude and unhelpful, even though I understand that the "main guy" behind the counter is supposed to be very knowledgable.

But the counter help at the smaller store are friendly and attentive. Yes, they'll try to steer me towards the more expensive handguns -- I think because they know that I am an enthusiast and have the level of skill where that extra quality would actually do me some good. I don't mind that at all, it means that they understand their clientelle. I think of it as being like a restaurant waiter who suggests a fine wine to go with the meal -- yes, it is a high profit item, they are trying to stay in business after all. Nothing says I have to buy that high dollar item, though. "Looks nice, I'd sure like to have one of them, but money's tight and I can't afford it right now." They understand.

About the mandatory ammo/target purchase from the range: Well, let's just say that this little range doesn't do that. From what I can tell, they don't need to. It seems that most people buy from them anyway -- at least the newbies and occasional shooters. Those of us who shoot there regularly usually don't, but then again we also get the annual memberships at $270, so it isn't like they aren't getting their money. Even then, I still sometimes buy their ammo and targets just for convienence sake and I'd like to keep them in business. Now, if they were to change that -- I'd be MIGHTY CHAPPED! First, I already have the targets and ammo, bought BEFORE they implemented the new policy, so what am I going to do with that now? Not to mention, I've already prepaid my lane until the first part of January -- they've already got my money, it isn't like I can demand that they give me back the unused portion. And then, I'd have to go all the way up to Kennesaw or halfway to the airport to be able to shoot! Ick! But I'd do just that out of principle.

 

[zejs1]

know what you want to buy before you walk in.

If the "gun store" is Wal-Mart, that's acceptable.

I'd be a lot more tolerant of the rotten service and snotty attitude from the local stores if they charged Wal-Mart prices instead of MRSP.

 

[glockmaster]

Quote:
know what you want to buy before you walk in.

It has nothing to do with knowing what you want, but being treated with
some respect and givin the information without the owner/sales person
having an attitude when he has to help sell his products. If he doesn't
want to sell them why did he become a firearms deaer? Because he thought
by being an ******* the product would sell itself, NOT!

 

[USP45usp]

A dealers attitude is the biggest point with me.

Treat me like an idiot, I will take my money elsewhere and I WILL stop by every now and then with copies of my reciepts so they know what they could have had. Cruel yes, but they have the right to know why good customer service, is a must.

Yet, I can also see some of their points of view. Time is money and I've had to clean glass before, it's a pain. And if you whine about wiping down the few guns you have when they are handled, what about a couple of hunderd guns.

Yet, I see it from a buyers point of view also (since I am mostly a buyer besides C&R's). I don't expect a buyer to argue with the owner/counter people, but I don't expect them to start the arguement.

Everyone has knowledge, but no one knows it all. Take that into account, you the owner and "gun expect" can be wrong also (got two gun store employees so far, they either lied, was trying to sell me a bag of goods, or just wouldn't admit until I showed them, that they were wrong).

There are aspects that we, the buyers need to understand also:

1. Gun dealers/shop owners are NOT there to give guns away. They have overhead (thank you mr. clinton), electric, water, sewer, etc..

2. To have an FFL01, you have to use it as a gun dealer who makes most of their money from the sell of guns. Profit. Overhead cuts into profit and IIRC the atfe doesn't take just being able to afford the store front accounts for profit.

3. They have to eat. I couldn't see Wild without a full belly. If you think that he's grumpy now, well, I wouldn't want to see the other.

4. Gun dealers have families, cars, and maybe kids to feed. Not to mention a home and then having to pay utilities at home as well.

It's up to the customer to "see" which ones are doing so in hopes to become rich (selling $100 guns for $500, and I've seen it here with that "pimped out" raven or jennings, forgot now, haven't been there for a couple of months now) off the backs of their customer base. Yet I promise you that a little bit of civility and kindness will make the money jump into your register faster than a sour attitude and bad service.

The gun shop that I go to is abit overpriced. Not badly so, but I know. I get catalogs from gun companies and I know what the MSRP is for dealers. Yet really, who am I to complain when the price is $50 to even a couple of $100 over MSRP (and no, the MSRP on the web sites, are not dealer prices ). But if you notice, most gun stores will have the gun under MSPR that you see on the sites. Great deal. Yes, for both you and the dealer.

You also have to take into account the heating cost now days (as well as the cooling costs). Electric, gas, and natural gas are going up big time. You expect them to carry the blunt of the costs? You feel comfortable while in their stores (not sweating, not freezing) and that comfort isn't free.

As to Wild's comment about people wanting to "jew a person down", that is inappropriate in any sense and no one should have to give those people the time of day or service. That's just wrong no matter how you look at it. Wild shows restraint, I'm not Jewish but I would be tempted to kick their butt for such a remark.

(Wild, not kissing up or such, just that phrase has always ticked me off and I lose instant respect for those that utter it).

It's up to the customer to find the place that he or she is most comfortable, for those that they respect and get respect, and to call around but put their money where they respect the people. I've never bought a gun from wally world (with the exception of the bb/pellet gun and I haven't seen a gun shop that has such unless they are the upper end pellet guns) but I have gotten one from Bi-Mart, but they are local, not a major corporation.

Ammo is a different thing, have bought from wally world. Not ashamed of it and will do it again.

Wayne

 

[Stiletto]

Place near me in Raleigh (PDHSC) has real friendly store staff. Or at least that shift was friendly.

I drooled for a while over an M1 Carbine. And they let me look at all the toys and whatnot.

 

[zejs1]

The gun shop that I go to is abit overpriced. Not badly so, but I know. I get catalogs from gun companies and I know what the MSRP is for dealers. Yet really, who am I to complain when the price is $50 to even a couple of $100 over MSRP (and no, the MSRP on the web sites, are not dealer prices ). But if you notice, most gun stores will have the gun under MSPR that you see on the sites. Great deal. Yes, for both you and the dealer.

When I say MSRP, I don't mean dealer pricing, I mean manufacturer's suggested retail price that's the inflated "list price" on the web sites.

I don't mind paying more than a dealer paid for something. I do mind them treating me like I'm stupid enough to pay list price, or more.

A few weeks ago I asked a local store about the price for an H&R Buffalo Classic. Wal-Mart sells it for $320, MSRP is about $420. This joker quotes me $479. No explanation as to why it's that high, I think he just assumed I wouldn't bother to shop around. Or that I was such a loyal customer that I would keep coming back to take it in the shorts with pricing like that.

Well, forget that. I did go back a couple times after that, but after one more particularly rude incident, I decided supporting local business wasn't worth being insulted and ripped off. Midway USA & Wal-Mart will be getting my money from now on.

 

[stevewiz]

Maybe it's just me but i am always a little taken aback when there are 10 people behind the counter, either sitting or doing nothing, all armed as to show how macho they are, and there is only one person no older than 22 who does all the service like running up and down the shelf wall seeking my ammo order.

and no alaska, maybe i can't afford that sks right now but in a month i'll remember when you refused access to the AUG and order it elsewhere. you are not gods, and the auto industry is still recovering from that reality check.

gun dealer, car dealer, or candy dealer.. no different. you sell, i buy.

 

[gb_in_ga]

"and no alaska, maybe i can't afford that sks right now but in a month i'll remember when you refused access to the AUG and order it elsewhere. you are not gods, and the auto industry is still recovering from that reality check."

I agree wholeheartedly. If you are rude to me today, I'll remember it when I'm ready to buy. I do my best to not be an idiot, but keep in mind that I'm not a wealthy guy right now. That may change in the future. My impression of you and your shop right now will have great weight when I am actually ready to buy that ever lengthening list of guns that I want to get in the not so distant future. If it means buying online through some other FFL than you, so be it -- even if it costs me more. On some things, I hold grudges.

 

[gb_in_ga]

"know what you want to buy before you walk in."

While I usually do just that, there's one big problem with that mentality, and gun shop owners instinctively know what that is. And that is that sometimes I just want to browse around and see what's there, what's new, etc. Maybe something will strike my fancy and I'll add it to my mental "to get" list. If gun shop owners really didn't want me doing that, then JUST WHY DO THEY HAVE DISPLAY CASES???

 

[Gary Conner]

Gun shops/Sales skills

I bet a lot of the problem is, in the retail gun industry, you you could count on one finger the people in gun shops that have had the opportunity to be taught sales presentation and closing techniques.

You don't close a transaction by answering questions. You do it by asking questions designed to determine the client's wants and needs, and drawing out the clients objections, so you can isolate the objection (always money) overcoming the objection by addressing the concern. Only then, can you build rapport, and close the sale.

After all, nobody spends a dime with someone they do not like, but more importantly, TRUST.

Putting up with ignorent questions, is a salesman's entire job, because selling is simply educating the client as to the best choice for him, or his family.

It doesn't matter what product you are selling. A good car salesman/gun salesman/ironing board salesman etc., will help you make a decision (close the transaction) by making the customer's need, seem like the only thing that matters in the entire world, and the client never realizes he is being "closed".

The old saying is, love the customer, hate their problem. The only real objections to keep a customer not purchasing an item they realize they want or need, is No. 1. The Money. No. 2. The money.

A true salesperson draws out the want or need by asking questions, and then justifies the cost in the customers mind, and then ASKS for the sale. People don't really care how much you know, they really want to know how much you care to resolve their wants and needs. And if you don't care to resolve their need, they know it and simply will not fork over the money. That is true in cars, water softeners, or guns, the problem is, small shops that sell things, in whatever people sell, be it guns, cars, mortgage loans, or lamp shades.