Gun left in bathroom stall
- Thread starter Don P
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"The officer should be criminally charged especially considering that a child found it."
Do any one of us want this standard applied to ourselves if we make this mistake? I doubt it. Just like having an ND, some say its not a matter of if, but when it will happen to you. No matter how good, how competent, how responsible you believe yourself to be, you can make a mistake. Criminal charges should be applied to intentional criminal actions, not mistakes. No one should lose their livelihood and have an abrupt end to a long and honorable career because of a mistake. I would hope, that LE would have the same compassion for legally armed civilians, although I don't count on it. Guys do it often enough, and as John Farnum pointed out during a class, armed women have to deal with this issue every time thy visit the ladies room.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
And I'll bet the kid who safely and responsibly turned the gun in, may have been taught what to do by one of those evil NRA programs like Eddie Eagle.
Do any one of us want this standard applied to ourselves if we make this mistake? I doubt it. Just like having an ND, some say its not a matter of if, but when it will happen to you. No matter how good, how competent, how responsible you believe yourself to be, you can make a mistake. Criminal charges should be applied to intentional criminal actions, not mistakes. No one should lose their livelihood and have an abrupt end to a long and honorable career because of a mistake. I would hope, that LE would have the same compassion for legally armed civilians, although I don't count on it. Guys do it often enough, and as John Farnum pointed out during a class, armed women have to deal with this issue every time thy visit the ladies room.
"Judge not, lest ye be judged".
And I'll bet the kid who safely and responsibly turned the gun in, may have been taught what to do by one of those evil NRA programs like Eddie Eagle.
sensative item check....
This topic comes up on gun forums often.
Many cops & federal agents leave weapons and gear unsecured a lot.
Private citizens and service members do it too!
When I was in the US military we were trained to check for sensative items & be alert.
Stress, medications daydreaming etc can make you careless.
Stay alert!
This topic comes up on gun forums often.
Many cops & federal agents leave weapons and gear unsecured a lot.
Private citizens and service members do it too!
When I was in the US military we were trained to check for sensative items & be alert.
Stress, medications daydreaming etc can make you careless.
Stay alert!
johnelmore
New member
Lets be understanding. Officers work monster shifts where they have to drive around all day while having to maintain 100 percent concentration oftentimes with no one to talk to. Its exhausting work. You can give it a try yourself. Drive around your neighborhood for an hour and lets see your energy levels.
There is no excuse for unsecured firearms, but understand the situation and reasons. The officer is tired and made a mistake.
There is no excuse for unsecured firearms, but understand the situation and reasons. The officer is tired and made a mistake.
It happens;
We had an officer assist some tourist get their motor home running. That was about 10 AM, about 5 that after noon the same tourist showed up at the police station with his gun. Seems he work most of the shift not knowing his gun was missing. Uniform cop at that.
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A couple years ago, here is this little town the range officer was doing some training at our local "Honor Farm". He left a loaded shotgun and one of the prisoners found it and luckily turned it in.
He was promoted shortly there after, but only having a discharge in the police station sending a round through the wall into the break room (where the CSO, my stepdaughter was taking a break).
We had an officer assist some tourist get their motor home running. That was about 10 AM, about 5 that after noon the same tourist showed up at the police station with his gun. Seems he work most of the shift not knowing his gun was missing. Uniform cop at that.
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A couple years ago, here is this little town the range officer was doing some training at our local "Honor Farm". He left a loaded shotgun and one of the prisoners found it and luckily turned it in.
He was promoted shortly there after, but only having a discharge in the police station sending a round through the wall into the break room (where the CSO, my stepdaughter was taking a break).
an arguement for DA only sidearms....
A few years ago, gunwriter & tactics trainer, Massad Ayoob wrote of a uniformed cop in AK, who removed a loaded SIG P220 .45acp from a security box. The hammer caught the edge of the container and was cocked.
The officer later drew the pistol in a field interview event then had a ND.
The cop now uses a DA only spurless design.
As stated, cops and security guards are not robots but they need to be careful.
A few years ago, gunwriter & tactics trainer, Massad Ayoob wrote of a uniformed cop in AK, who removed a loaded SIG P220 .45acp from a security box. The hammer caught the edge of the container and was cocked.
The officer later drew the pistol in a field interview event then had a ND.
The cop now uses a DA only spurless design.
As stated, cops and security guards are not robots but they need to be careful.
Electric Head
New member
So why does it need to leave the holster?
Deaf Smith
New member
Try dropping your pants so you can sit down on the pot without having the gun lay on the floor where God knows how many people have wee-wee'ed on!
That is why you take the gun out of the holster.
Deaf
Dragline45
New member
When you unbuckle your belt and pants the tension of the tightened belt is no longer holding the pistol and holster snug to your body. When loose the weight of the pistol can cause the holster to flop over and your pistol can fall to the ground if it has no retention. I always just stick it down my pant leg when my trousers are dropped, there's absolutely no forgetting your pistol in the bathroom when you go to pull your pants up with a hunk of steel sitting in it.
No one is perfect but this definitely shouldn't be something left behind!!
I leave mine on the hook on the door in front of me and then its never out of sight. However not every bathroom has that hook. The key is to always keep it in sight...Your gun should always be in sight.
I leave mine on the hook on the door in front of me and then its never out of sight. However not every bathroom has that hook. The key is to always keep it in sight...Your gun should always be in sight.
ChaperallCat
Moderator
it happens all the time. yet the general public isnt considered safe to have a gun by these elites.
in michigan a few years ago an off duty cop left his gun in a bathroom stall, and the wonderful citizen who found it proceeded to shoot through a wall and into a vending machine. everybody in that case got charged with something and prosecuted.
i believe that its always been standard practice to loop the gun belt around ones kneck and make it into a temporary shoulder holster so that you always have gun at hand while your doing business.
in michigan a few years ago an off duty cop left his gun in a bathroom stall, and the wonderful citizen who found it proceeded to shoot through a wall and into a vending machine. everybody in that case got charged with something and prosecuted.
i believe that its always been standard practice to loop the gun belt around ones kneck and make it into a temporary shoulder holster so that you always have gun at hand while your doing business.
[QUOTE-Erno86] I think it's bad doo-doo for someone to remove a pistol from a belted hip holster, while sitting on the throne; inorder to keep the pistol from falling out. I believe the pistol should be kept holstered with the waist of the pants --- along with the holster ---dropped no further than just below the knee caps. If the waist of the pants were dropped to boot or shoe level...the pistol and holster would be visible under the toilet stall from any passer-by who felt free too take a gander. [/QUOTE]
This ^ is exactly what I do. The holster I use has adequate retention so there's no way the gun will fall out even if it gets flipped upside-down.
Plus, in the rare instance when I find myself at a social function where it would be unacceptable to reveal that I'm armed, having someone spot a holster underneath a stall door is just as bad as having them spot the gun itself.
Here's a thought for the extra-cautious: If someone spots my holster on the bathroom floor, they not only know that I'm armed, but where I carry my gun. Which would facilitate a snatch later.
I carry a 3" SP101 in a Side Guard Quick Snap, for reference.
Ivan
This ^ is exactly what I do. The holster I use has adequate retention so there's no way the gun will fall out even if it gets flipped upside-down.
Plus, in the rare instance when I find myself at a social function where it would be unacceptable to reveal that I'm armed, having someone spot a holster underneath a stall door is just as bad as having them spot the gun itself.
Here's a thought for the extra-cautious: If someone spots my holster on the bathroom floor, they not only know that I'm armed, but where I carry my gun. Which would facilitate a snatch later.
I carry a 3" SP101 in a Side Guard Quick Snap, for reference.
Ivan
A civilian did this a few months ago in the restroom at a retail store up here, a Glock with a chambered round. A clerk turned it over to the police, and the owner (had a CCP) claimed it. No charges, but the press had a field day.
No one got hurt. And from the press reports the owner was a decent enough guy. But it sure didn't advance our cause in an already challenging political climate.
No one got hurt. And from the press reports the owner was a decent enough guy. But it sure didn't advance our cause in an already challenging political climate.
seeker_two
New member
In this case, I'd return the gun....but I'd probably keep the ammo.....finder's fee....
About 12 years ago...one guy at our pistol range, left his Ruger Encore pistol, along with an extra three barrel set, on top of a station bench. He left the range on his motorcycle...only too never see his Encore pistol and three barrel set again.
Early last spring...I found a cased 22 Anschutz target rifle, on a rifle rack behind the firing line --- on our 100 yard outdoor range --- placed there by a member and totally forgotten, from the night before. I knew who the rifle belonged too --- gave it to the RSO --- with the member coming out later that morning, with him expecting his rifle not to be stolen.
Early last spring...I found a cased 22 Anschutz target rifle, on a rifle rack behind the firing line --- on our 100 yard outdoor range --- placed there by a member and totally forgotten, from the night before. I knew who the rifle belonged too --- gave it to the RSO --- with the member coming out later that morning, with him expecting his rifle not to be stolen.
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