Glock 17 vs. H&K USP 9mm: a brief personal comparison

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Oruglock

New member
While at the range yesterday a guy came over to chat, and lent me his HK USP 9mm to try.

I had been shooting at 10 yards, and just emptied two Glock 17 magazines into a 3" raggedy hole, so I was feeling pretty chipper. I was also shooting a RIA 1911 GI Model, and despite the primitive sights did much the same with that. I've been pistol shooting 8 months, maybe 12 trips to a range, but I've clearly gotten much better in that time.

Feeling like I couldn't miss on this day, I pushed the target out to 50 feet, the maximum possible in this indoor range (though I could have moved to the indoor rifle range that goes to 75 feet), and unloaded two more magazines. Back it comes, all the shots in a 4 3/4" circle (I marked it with a yoghurt pot lid when I got home), and 3/4 of them in a 3" radius.

Time to try the HK at 50 feet, first time ever shooting one, and goodness but that was all 18 shots within a 3" circle. Very quiet glee (I'm British, we like to be understated).

Is a H&K UPS worth two the cost of Glocks plus 500 rounds of 9mm ammo? For me right now, no. The Glock 17 got the job done just as well. Maybe if I was into competition shooting the HK might give me an edge, but even then I'm not convinced. More practise with the guns I have is going to make me a much better shooter than seeking an ideal that may not exist, and be cheaper.

A couple of weeks ago a similar thing happened, but it was a different guy at a different range with a Walther PPS.

What I am learning is that some people have a favorite gun/platform, and with the best intentions in the world they'll try to convince you their gun is better than yours because of yadda-yadda, and will make you a better shot. Actually what makes you a better shot is training, not the gun.
 
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stephen426

New member
Change the sights on your Glock 17 to a good 3 dot system, maybe even with night sights and you will see how accurate you can be. The most important thing to remember when shooting Glocks is to learn the breaking point of the trigger. Dry fire the gun a lot (Obviously after removing all of the ammunition) and learn the break point after the trigger stacks up. Glock's "ball and goal-post" style sights are great for rapid target acquisition, but not great for fine detail shooting. I was amazed at how much more accurate I got when I switched the sights on my Glock 26, and your Glock 17 has an even longer sight radius. The H&K USP is a great gun. I had one in .40 S&W. The single action trigger is much nicer than Glock's mushy trigger and overall accuracy might be slightly better. Is it worth double your Glock 17 plus 500 rounds of ammo? I personally don't think so. If you can get used to the Glock's trigger, they can be VERY accurate and certainly more than you would ever need unless you get into bulls eye shooting.
 
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dayman

New member
One thing I always find is that when I switch guns my groups temporarily shrink. I assume it's because I actively focus on the fundamentals more when I first pick up a gun.
In fact, when I start to develop an issue, or hit a plateau, I've found that switching guns for a while (preferably to something with a significantly different trigger) snaps me out of it.

Maybe you would shoot a HK better in the long term (plenty of people do), but maybe not.
 
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Will Beararms

New member
I have a British background so I will get to the point. The average Glock give or take a few dollars after taxes costs you $600.00. The average USP costs you $800.00 after taxes give or take a few bucks. Is an HK worth the extra $200.00? From my perspective, no----an extra $100.00? Sure.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
We've heard this bed time story before. To some folks it's worth the extra money, to others it's not. You are right that practice is key, but some folks just do better with different platforms. DA/SA will always feel more natural to me than a striker fired trigger because of how I learned to shoot and the amount of time I have with that system. I just shoot it better, even after my stint with every striker pistol I could get my hands on. I don't mind paying the money for what I like. At the same time a Glock is just fine. Freedom of choice is a beautiful thing.
 
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Uncle Malice

New member
I would pay $200 more for a P30-----I think they're worth it. The USP is dated. Still a solid offering but dated.
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What is dated about it? It has a better trigger than the P30. Because it's not a ergonomically perfect? Some people like a gun to feel like a gun instead of a clay molding of their hand.

I like both the USP and the P30, but the USP doesn't really give up anything to the P30. It has a modular trigger which can be converted between DA/SA/DAO/LEM/Decock/Decock with safety/etc... The P30 you buy, is the P30 you have.

The USP is a timeless design. Is it a little bulky? Yes... but so is a humvee. Would you rather have a porsche or a humvee if you were going into battle?
 
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TunnelRat

New member
The USP is a timeless design. Is it a little bulky? Yes... but so is a humvee. Would you rather have a porsche or a humvee if you were going into battle?
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Come on brother. Are you saying the P30 is as fragile as a Porsche? What about Todd Green's test? I'm with you in defending the USP, but let's keep a little perspective.

Like you said the USP is extremely modular in terms of trigger systems and more so the stock trigger is better with the Match trigger being on a whole different level. But for some folks the ergos of the USP just don't work, myself included. It actually tends to rub part of my main hand raw because of a slight handicap I have. The ergos on the P series just work so much better for me personally, not just compared to the USP but also to any of the 50+ handguns I've owned. Again, choice is a beautiful thing.
 
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EvgeniBG

New member
<quote> <Uncle Malice>
What is dated about it? It has a better trigger than the P30. Because it's not a ergonomically perfect? Some people like a gun to feel like a gun instead of a clay molding of their hand.

I like both the USP and the P30, but the USP doesn't really give up anything to the P30. It has a modular trigger which can be converted between DA/SA/DAO/LEM/Decock/Decock with safety/etc... The P30 you buy, is the P30 you have.

The USP is a timeless design. Is it a little bulky? Yes... but so is a humvee. Would you rather have a porsche or a humvee if you were going into battle?
<quote>

^This!!!
My words and thoughts exactly!
I'd rather have USP (as I actually do) over Glock regardless of the price difference.
 
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Uncle Malice

New member
Come on brother. Are you saying the P30 is as fragile as a Porsche? What about Todd Green's test? I'm with you in defending the USP, but let's keep a little perspective.
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No, that's not what I'm saying. Perhaps that was a bad analogy, but what I'm saying is that I don't thing the USP gives up anything to other 'newer' designs. The specific ergonomics may not work for YOUR hand, and that's fine. Glock ergonomics don't work for many people either, but that doesn't mean they are a 'dated' design.

Now the 1911... that's a dated design.

:::bundles up in his flame suit:::
 
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Oruglock

New member
have a British background so I will get to the point. The average Glock give or take a few dollars after taxes costs you $600.00. The average USP costs you $800.00 after taxes give or take a few bucks. Is an HK worth the extra $200.00? From my perspective, no----an extra $100.00? Sure.
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My Glock 17 cost $550 with three magazines, no sales tax in Oregon. The guy told me he paid $1250 or thereabouts for his USP. 9mm JHP is $15/50 most places round here. Two Glocks = $1100, leaving $150 for 500 rounds of ammo.

It may have been match grade or something. The sights were plain black, no dots at all, which surprised me as I'm used to 3 dots or the Glock cup and dot.

He suggested I join the shooting league, but right now my family circumstances wouldn't allow. We have a 2 year old boy and another due in August, so leaving my wife alone one evening a week to cope with bath and bedtime while I go shooting would not go down well. Maybe in a few years' time, and then I might have the money to invest in a really top notch target gun if I'm still interested. Meantime I'm sure there's lots of improvements I can make in my own shooting before the gun makes the biggest difference.


Many thanks for all the replies. I have several handguns and like to switch around and get a feel for all of them in their off-the-shelf set up. When I have more experience I'm sure there will be some platform and set up I naturally gravitate towards for different uses.
 
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jmstr

New member
The joys of firearm ownership: options.

I actually had and sold a USP .45C because of the opposite experience.

My groups were noticeably larger with it than my other .45s. By at least 50%, and, on a bad day 100% larger [5-8" groups at 7 yards instead of 3-4" groups at 7 with my 'better' shooting .45].

The irony?

The 'better' shooting .45, which gave me the best groups, was a Ruger P97.

The others in the mix were: Sig P220Combat, SA 1911 Blackened Target, Sistema 1911, Kimber 1911, and S&W M&P .45.

I tried to like the USP due to how much respect it deserves for quality. However, I could never get good groups [probably used around 500 rounds] and the trigger NEVER felt good to me-always too gritty, even after having the match trigger group swapped in.

I respect the USP, but it wasn't for me.

Now, I also own a Glock and I respect it. I am constantly surprised at the inherent accuracy of it, despite feeling 'wrong' to me [gen 3 G22] in my hands.

I liked the feel of the USP in my hand more than any Glock [gen 3: I'm in California, so Gen 4 not allowed], but trigger feel and accuracy made me not want to keep it.

Weird: the $350 Ruger P97 gave the best groups, and that was after not firing it for 5 years.

Different folks = different strokes.

Wish I could get 4" groups at 50 feet!:(
 
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stephen426

New member
Gun broker has several HK USP in 9mm for sale around the $800 mark. There will be shipping costs (usually around $30) and the transfer fee plus NICS check (maybe $40 - $50). Congrats on your new baby. You are very wise to take care of and help the pregnant wife instead of going out shooting. Hormonal women are dangerous!!! Also, please be sure to be careful with lead pollution from shooting. Always change your clothes and shower immediately upon returning home and before being around the kids. Kids are very sensitive to lead poisoning. Best of luck to you!
 
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stephen426

New member
@ Tunnel Rat,

My experience is quite different from yours regarding DA/SA guns and striker fired guns. I actually prefer striker fired or even DAO triggers due to the consistent trigger pull shot after shot. Even with a fairly light DA trigger, it is hard to get the first shot on target. There is also a slight grip change usually if you have smaller or larger hands. I certainly prefer the super light and crisp triggers of my 1911s, but for defensive purposes, I really like Glock's Safe-Action trigger.


@ jmstr,

I totally know where you are coming from.. I had a Sig P245 (compact .45) that I could not shoot worth a darn (compared to my other Sigs). I am very accurate with my P228 and my P229, but could not group well at all with the P245. I am not afraid of recoil by any means. The range officer was able to shoot it just fine so it was definitely my fault. I ended up trading it for my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and am MUCH happier. That gun will shoot the wings off a fly if you do your part!
 
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TunnelRat

New member
Oruglock said:
My Glock 17 cost $550 with three magazines, no sales tax in Oregon. The guy told me he paid $1250 or thereabouts for his USP. 9mm JHP is $15/50 most places round here. Two Glocks = $1100, leaving $150 for 500 rounds of ammo.

It may have been match grade or something. The sights were plain black, no dots at all, which surprised me as I'm used to 3 dots or the Glock cup and dot.

He suggested I join the shooting league, but right now my family circumstances wouldn't allow. We have a 2 year old boy and another due in August, so leaving my wife alone one evening a week to cope with bath and bedtime while I go shooting would not go down well. Maybe in a few years' time, and then I might have the money to invest in a really top notch target gun if I'm still interested. Meantime I'm sure there's lots of improvements I can make in my own shooting before the gun makes the biggest difference.


Many thanks for all the replies. I have several handguns and like to switch around and get a feel for all of them in their off-the-shelf set up. When I have more experience I'm sure there will be some platform and set up I naturally gravitate towards for different uses.
Click to expand...

Whoever paid $1250 for a USP is an idiot. It isnt an insult, it's a fact.
 
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TunnelRat

New member
stephen426 said:
@ Tunnel Rat,

My experience is quite different from yours regarding DA/SA guns and striker fired guns. I actually prefer striker fired or even DAO triggers due to the consistent trigger pull shot after shot. Even with a fairly light DA trigger, it is hard to get the first shot on target. There is also a slight grip change usually if you have smaller or larger hands. I certainly prefer the super light and crisp triggers of my 1911s, but for defensive purposes, I really like Glock's Safe-Action trigger.


@ jmstr,

I totally know where you are coming from.. I had a Sig P245 (compact .45) that I could not shoot worth a darn (compared to my other Sigs). I am very accurate with my P228 and my P229, but could not group well at all with the P245. I am not afraid of recoil by any means. The range officer was able to shoot it just fine so it was definitely my fault. I ended up trading it for my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and am MUCH happier. That gun will shoot the wings off a fly if you do your part!
Click to expand...

I have no issue with the DA pull. I find it excellent for "defensive purposes". That said you should use what you feel comfortable with.
 
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