Yes I have, no you can not. The difference between the two is that the Garmin does not read out nearly as far (I've heard 20 to 40 yards) and I do not think there is a way to "set" the distance out. I glanced at the manual this morning, waste of time as I figured it all out intuitively. There is a larger manual on-line, which I will go check out later today. But the manual that came with does say the bullet has to travel at least 20 yards.
Garmin Xero C1 Pro Chronograph
- Thread starter zeke
- Start date
Yes I have, no you can not. The difference between the two is that the Garmin does not read out nearly as far (I've heard 20 to 40 yards) and I do not think there is a way to "set" the distance out. I glanced at the manual this morning, waste of time as I figured it all out intuitively. There is a larger manual on-line, which I will go check out later today. But the manual that came with does say the bullet has to travel at least 20 yards.
stagpanther
New member
Appreciate that information--I'm sorta reading between the lines here--I'm guessing that Garmin opted for wider but much closer in detection field than labradar's. That IMO makes it much closer to a standard chrony in mostly at the muzzle velocity readouts. That probably is what most people really care about--but I do like labradar's ability to tag velocities at various distances--even if it isn't always complete. Had you said that the Garmin did/could do that I would have probably dropped the labradar immediately for the Garmin--but in my mind it's not nearly as compelling now. Still, I can see that they will gain a significant market share based on simplicity and quickness of setting up and operating, so I think they'll gain a big market share for those reasons alone. I'm not sure labradar owners are going to be as quick to dump their's. though.
Jim Watson
New member
I surrendered and put a Garmin on backorder today, I have accumulated some testing to do, mostly pistol power factoring, and was not looking forward to setting the CE or CED outside in winter.
Magnetospeed is the only chronograph I’ve owned or used, but a friend of mine has a chronograph that measures velocity at some distance from the muzzle, ~10’ I believe, and calculates velocity back at the muzzle. Does the Garmin do that or does it just read velocity at some distance and that’s it?
Many standard optical chronographs have that setting, and will do that.
The MagnetoSpeed is a pure reading inches from the muzzle.
The Labradar and Garmin use Doppler radar and, based on their wizardry in the box, calculate a muzzle velocity from measurements 10 to 40 yards for the Garmin and 10 to 200 yards for the Labradar.
I've compared a Standard vs. a MagnetoSpeed vs. a Labradar on the exact same shot for half a dozen guns, some of which was my prompting to drop the Labradar because it kept faulting when the others got numbers (and other issues). All are "good enough" for the generalist and the reloader. Where the separation occurs is multiplication of those errors out at distances past about 600 yards. Then the opticals really do have some errors that have to be estimated and adjusted.
Based on my limited use of the Garmin, it is spot on.
What Stagpanther is alluding to is the ability to have the Labradar tell you what it deems to be the BC of the bullet over specific velocity ranges. Personally, I have found that to have significant errors and of little use to me, but I have friends for whom that was their biggest selling point of the Labradar. I tend to use the manufacturer's BC and shoot truing bar targets once I have the MV and then tweak the BC if needed.
stagpanther
New member
Kinda--but the labradar does not interpolate the velocities at distances--it's returning the actual in-flight tracked measurements AFAIK. It does interpolate the at-the-muzzle velocity to the extent it extrapolates the difference between the muzzle and where the trajectory of the bullet intersects it's "detection aim" at the target as I understand it, but so does the Garmin if I understand it correctly. Although labradar says the distances ability is limited to 100 yds; I've found that with some cartridges under ideal conditions that can be pushed to 150 yds and occassionally a bit more if I'm willing to settle for incomplete data sets. Environmental conditions can play a role in skewing data--but that can happen with any chrony. I've been using the labradar pretty much since it came out--when I cross-correlate its data with QL and 4DOF ballistics calculators it's usually very close to spot on--with the occasional but obvious "results flier." The achilles heel of the labradar is the velocity transition area between pistol and rifle velocities around 1,700 fps +/-; that can take some "frigging with the rigging" to get right on occasion.
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Got mine the first week they came out. Really like it compared to the Labradar I sold. Really easy to aim and use. Picks up my shots and not other shooters shots. And works with every rifle and pistol I own from .22 to 30.06. Only problem I’ve had is getting it to record shots on ranges that have overhead wood baffles. Couldn’t get mine to record any shots at that range. Other than that problem, love it. It even picked up shots from my .22 cal pistol in an indoor range with a target set only 5 yards away.
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Both of those observations are interesting. The thing that initially turned me off of the new Garmin gadget is that Garmin says the target must be at least 20 yards from the chronograph and my favorite shooting range only goes to 15 yards.
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/web...UID-DAAE29D9-D71B-4674-9590-0D40B4CB0818.html
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/web...oll=GUID-B7E43555-1CA7-4660-B704-6134212F5F24
I may have to rethink this if shorter distances are consistently reported by users.
That interesting it’s not suppose to work at close range. The range I tried it with my pistols was an indoor range with hanging targets on a track. The maximum distance for those lanes at that range is 25 yards. The Garmin is probably recording the shots after the bullet passes through the target and continues down the range.
I'll try it closer and compare to a MagnetoSpeed for verification next time I get out to the range.
I see what you’re saying, but unless the Garmin is set far enough to the side to see “around” the target, I think the target itself will block/reflect the radar signal and keep it from tracking beyond the target. I'm thinking in terms of ~2'x3' paper range targets. I’m not a radar guru, so I could be wrong. I was once before.
I see what you’re saying, but unless the Garmin is set far enough to the side to see “around” the target, I think the target itself will block/reflect the radar signal and keep it from tracking beyond the target. I'm thinking in terms of ~2'x3' paper range targets. I’m not a radar guru, so I could be wrong. I was once before.
Could depend on radar frequency, target material and signal processing. There is such as thing as "ground penetrating radar" used to search for changes in density/ objects under the surface. A bullet would likely be much denser than the target so if the signal does pass through a typical thin paper I don't see this as too improbable.
Jim Watson
New member
We will see such things when mine arrives.
Would be interesting to have someone with a Garmin, or Labradar for that matter, shoot at no target and then at a target at say 20 yards and then at a target at 5 yards and see what results they get.
Jim Watson
New member
I plan to. If I remember this thread by the time mine comes in.
Shrug, there is a screw on sight, you can put a tube on top or you can just eyeball the notch which I have found works perfectly fine.
Real shock to me as I had seen nothing about the Garmin till now.
My biggest issue with Labradar was I started in January with a cold winter and the buttons and my fingers were not happy.
The Garmin looks to be a great unit in a great size package.
But sell the Labradar? No way. It does what I want the way I want. Perfect? Nope. I don't have the problems others have with it, either its got variability or I am doing something right.
I would change some things about it if I could (buttons that responded better) but compared to the Old Chrony? Phew, easy to setup, easy to use. It misses a shot occasionally but I could get the other trigger.
Run it with a 22 Semi Auto and it picks those up fine, Cap and Ball fine. 22 Rifle? No, you need the aux trigger. (well sort of, I can get it to work but awkward).
Cost? Probably the Garmin as you pay extra for the labradar bag and chargeable battery. I built my own mount so saved that cost.
I will seriously suggest a look at the Garmin to those who ask.
I am not a competition bench rest though I probably could compete in my age division.
I just write my data down, more shrug, it works and I don't have to buy a smart phone nor all the link stuff (pencil and paper is very reliable!)
Still would like a bag for this as you want the trip pod and the unit together. Small size does nothing for me. I like the Labradar large size.
Mfgs BC is going to be far more accurate than anything calculated in the field in my opinion.
I had a raging argument with a Fire Dept guy over measuring water flow from a fire pump one time. He did not like the system mounted flowmeter (calibrated) and thought his calculations with 150 feet of hose and bends etc was curate, hmmm - if you want accurate flow into a tank and time it.
Otherwise the flow meter is going to be accurate and with all the variables your calcs can easily be off 20% (its a weird world for those flows and testing them on a fire pump) .
I just write my data down, more shrug, it works and I don't have to buy a smart phone nor all the link stuff (pencil and paper is very reliable!)
Still would like a bag for this as you want the trip pod and the unit together. Small size does nothing for me. I like the Labradar large size.
Mfgs BC is going to be far more accurate than anything calculated in the field in my opinion.
I had a raging argument with a Fire Dept guy over measuring water flow from a fire pump one time. He did not like the system mounted flowmeter (calibrated) and thought his calculations with 150 feet of hose and bends etc was curate, hmmm - if you want accurate flow into a tank and time it.
Otherwise the flow meter is going to be accurate and with all the variables your calcs can easily be off 20% (its a weird world for those flows and testing them on a fire pump) .
stagpanther
New member
I do those things, I would say it "works perfectly OK" but you likely are going to sacrifice a few cartridges to get the ideal track; especially at long distance elevation differences from shooting position to target. That said, gonna take more than just convenience to get me to bail on my labradar. Had the Garmin had distances tracking and recording that might have tipped the scale for me.