loose_holster_dan
New member
glock 19
sa xdm
walther ppq
sa xdm
walther ppq
Full size ccw/ best pistol/caliber
- Thread starter scrubcedar
- Start date
rottieman33
New member
Never liked Glocks get a Sig Sauer
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scrubcedar
New member
Ok so it looks like the consensus is some sort of polymer framed da/sa or even dao pistol. I'd really like to run a large number of rounds through it and 9mm or .40 s&w seem to be a lot easier on the wallet. I found a few shoulder rigs that are nylon and will probably be adaptable to me. Any experience with these? The price seems right $30-$50. I've got a business trip next week but will probably go out after that to a local range that rents pistols to see what fits my hands/(lack of) skills. I've searched high and low and have found an outfit called cdnn http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2012-2/index.html. I think I put that in right it's the link to their catalog. The prices seem amazing has anybody had any experience with them? They have police trade in's cheap, are these a good bargain?
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"I'm concerned that when I'm stressed I'll revert to manually cocking the hammer on an exposed hammer revolver, or even worse unsuccessfully try it on a revolver where the hammer is Shrouded/unavailable." [scrubcedar]
Interesting dilemma. The best handgun shooters in American hisory were the SA shooters of the Old West. The only thing that keeps me from carrying a Ruger Vaquero is slow reloading. With the S&W 22-4 it doesn't matter...I'll stop the attackers in SA, like Wyatt Earp said....shoot slowly quickly.
Re striker fired handguns...I can recommend the XDm series, (shot one in 40 cal that was amazingly accurate) and the Walther PPS is a terrific carry...but many striker fired handguns don't have an active safety so you need a really good holster, its not the kind of handgun you stuff in your back pocket to check out the backyard.
Whatever handgun you acquire, buy some snap-caps for it and practise till the manual of arms is second nature.
Lost the 100 lbs thru a very strict diet, no exercise other than walking...later I started exercising, it was easy cuz I was a 100 lbs lighter! Makes a huge difference, especially when carrying.
The best of luck to you, and,
Check your 6.
Interesting dilemma. The best handgun shooters in American hisory were the SA shooters of the Old West. The only thing that keeps me from carrying a Ruger Vaquero is slow reloading. With the S&W 22-4 it doesn't matter...I'll stop the attackers in SA, like Wyatt Earp said....shoot slowly quickly.
Re striker fired handguns...I can recommend the XDm series, (shot one in 40 cal that was amazingly accurate) and the Walther PPS is a terrific carry...but many striker fired handguns don't have an active safety so you need a really good holster, its not the kind of handgun you stuff in your back pocket to check out the backyard.
Whatever handgun you acquire, buy some snap-caps for it and practise till the manual of arms is second nature.
Lost the 100 lbs thru a very strict diet, no exercise other than walking...later I started exercising, it was easy cuz I was a 100 lbs lighter! Makes a huge difference, especially when carrying.
The best of luck to you, and,
Check your 6.
G19
First, I want to say that the PPQ is fast becoming my favorite gun.
However, as someone already pointed out, to carry a gun without a safety you need a really good holster, and unless you're willing to pay/wait to have one made, there are limited options for the PPQ at the moment.
For your price point I'd go with a Glock 19. 9mm is a perfectly effective round, and costs so much less than .45/.40 you'll have way more practice. Glocks are very reliable, can be found for not a whole lot of money, and have - far and away - the most after market support.
SW M&P, and SA Xd (even though I never cared for them) would also be great options.
First, I want to say that the PPQ is fast becoming my favorite gun.
However, as someone already pointed out, to carry a gun without a safety you need a really good holster, and unless you're willing to pay/wait to have one made, there are limited options for the PPQ at the moment.
For your price point I'd go with a Glock 19. 9mm is a perfectly effective round, and costs so much less than .45/.40 you'll have way more practice. Glocks are very reliable, can be found for not a whole lot of money, and have - far and away - the most after market support.
SW M&P, and SA Xd (even though I never cared for them) would also be great options.
TacticalDefense1911
New member
Not sure I understand this logic. His experience is with single action revolvers. DA/SA guns are an aquired taste. Some people like them, others don't. They take training to become proficient between the different trigger pulls and most of the DA pulls are not great out of the box compared to a striker type gun. Honestly, if you have proper technique you should be able to shoot anything well but these are guns you are going to want to try out first before making a purchase IMO. The Sig may be a decent pistol but it has yet to receive the reputation or the aftermarket support that Glock and the S&W M&P have and with the crazy things going on at Sig now I can't hardly recommend them anymore.
CCW picks, size, dress....
With the details you posted so far, I'd suggest the following pistols & DA only revolvers.
Since you already stated you have 0 to little shooting with semi-auto pistols, I'd suggest a simple DA only .38spl or .357magnum revolver like the Ruger LCR or SP101 .357magnum(DA only). The S&W 442/642 or 638 .38spl +P conceals well & offers good power.
After you feel ready to move up to a concealed semi auto pistol, I'd look at a PX4 C format 9x19mm, a used/CPO(pre-owned, factory conditioned) SIG P239 SAS DAK(DA only) or a P229R in DAK. The HK P2000 or P2000sk is great too but new pistols run $800.00 to $1000.00.
A DA only pistol is useful for CC/defense because you can avoid the false claims of firing by accident or "being reckless". Many police agencies issue DA only pistols to reduce lawsuits & civil actions.
For semi-auto pistols, I'd lean towards a .357sig or .40S&W. The .357sig feeds well & offers magnum type firepower. You can carry a compact pistol with 14/15 rounds.
3 dot night sights & lasergrips/laser-aiming units are good add ons.
LE research shows that 80-85% of armed events take place in low-light.
For your size & business dress, I'd use a leather shoulder holster like a Galco Miami Classic II or Aker Comfort Flex. Kirkpatrick Leather markets a great concealment rig but it's not cheap. Shoulder holsters allow you to carry 2 spare mags/speed-loaders.
If you have a bag/briefcase with you, I'd also include a few other items; white-light(tactical flashlight), spare ammunition, folder knife, OC spray(10%), a tactical pen or 2(Uzi, CRKT, Tactical Takedown, Tuff Writer, etc).
With the details you posted so far, I'd suggest the following pistols & DA only revolvers.
Since you already stated you have 0 to little shooting with semi-auto pistols, I'd suggest a simple DA only .38spl or .357magnum revolver like the Ruger LCR or SP101 .357magnum(DA only). The S&W 442/642 or 638 .38spl +P conceals well & offers good power.
After you feel ready to move up to a concealed semi auto pistol, I'd look at a PX4 C format 9x19mm, a used/CPO(pre-owned, factory conditioned) SIG P239 SAS DAK(DA only) or a P229R in DAK. The HK P2000 or P2000sk is great too but new pistols run $800.00 to $1000.00.
A DA only pistol is useful for CC/defense because you can avoid the false claims of firing by accident or "being reckless". Many police agencies issue DA only pistols to reduce lawsuits & civil actions.
For semi-auto pistols, I'd lean towards a .357sig or .40S&W. The .357sig feeds well & offers magnum type firepower. You can carry a compact pistol with 14/15 rounds.
3 dot night sights & lasergrips/laser-aiming units are good add ons.
LE research shows that 80-85% of armed events take place in low-light.
For your size & business dress, I'd use a leather shoulder holster like a Galco Miami Classic II or Aker Comfort Flex. Kirkpatrick Leather markets a great concealment rig but it's not cheap. Shoulder holsters allow you to carry 2 spare mags/speed-loaders.
If you have a bag/briefcase with you, I'd also include a few other items; white-light(tactical flashlight), spare ammunition, folder knife, OC spray(10%), a tactical pen or 2(Uzi, CRKT, Tactical Takedown, Tuff Writer, etc).
A few things. . .
If you are carrying every day you will want to get a nicer holster than a $30 Uncle Mikes - especially with shoulder rigs. Shoulder rigs are comfy and allow for easy drawing from inside a car but they tend to cost more, be more picky about fittment and force you to sweep extra space when you draw. If an assailant attacks very close in they are harder to draw and can be draw easier by a close-in attacker than yourself. If you still want to go that route I'd start pricing out Galco rigs.
As far as what pistol to get - that is very open ended. I'm sure before you carry you'd practice enough to familiarize yourself with the pistol and unlearn your single action revolver muscle memory. If you know you shot revolvers well I'd get a revolver. Consider the number of shots exchanged in an average firefight is 2.5 - I wouldn't get too hung up on the need for high capacity magazines.
If you are carrying every day you will want to get a nicer holster than a $30 Uncle Mikes - especially with shoulder rigs. Shoulder rigs are comfy and allow for easy drawing from inside a car but they tend to cost more, be more picky about fittment and force you to sweep extra space when you draw. If an assailant attacks very close in they are harder to draw and can be draw easier by a close-in attacker than yourself. If you still want to go that route I'd start pricing out Galco rigs.
As far as what pistol to get - that is very open ended. I'm sure before you carry you'd practice enough to familiarize yourself with the pistol and unlearn your single action revolver muscle memory. If you know you shot revolvers well I'd get a revolver. Consider the number of shots exchanged in an average firefight is 2.5 - I wouldn't get too hung up on the need for high capacity magazines.
scrubcedar
New member
Some of the bad habits I worry about are in revolvers themselves. I've never really been a fan of magnums. I've always carried standard calibers in full size pistols. I could always hit what I aimed at well enough(great genes, not my fault, ask me to tell you about Great Grandpa some night when you need cool stories) that I've never felt the need for extra power. I've watched guys with +p, magnum, light revolvers really struggle to reaquire their targets the times I have been at ranges. By comparison the guys firing auto's don't seem to have trouble. I know that if I am drawing/pulling the trigger the chances of the first shot putting him down aren't good odds, I worry about the second shot. If I just happened to have seen some real rookies and you've seen something different let me know. I'm perfectly willing to admit my lack of experience. I had a single six that I carried for years out in the scrub as protection from rattlesnakes and in a pinch cougars. Yeah, I know, even a .22 mag isn't what most people consider an adequate cougar round. I knew from who knows how many rounds through it I could easily hit a target the size of a cougars head even while it was moving toward me and I was under stress. I'd like to find a pistol that gives me that sort of confidence.
I agree with the others that separating yourself from your gun is not the best of ideas. Also, if you aren't interested in wearing a jacket you might want to try pocket carry. There are plenty of smaller guns that will disappear into a pocket and are still plenty enough gun to get yourself out of a sticky situation.
As far as 1911's are concerned, they are simply another option out there. The trigger will be familiar to you with your single action revolver background, since it will have the same crisp clean break as a single action (it is a single action auto after all). 1911's are slim, which is nice for carrying and they have a very ergonomic profile. The steel framed guns handle the recoil of a .45 ACP very well, as the cost of being a bit on the heavy side. 1911's do have an external safety that you will have to train yourself to manipulate, but it doesn't take long before you can instinctively swipe it on or off.
Your best bet is to get to a local gunshop or two and start handling some different handguns. Get a feel for their weight, how they point, how the trigger feels, etc. etc. Look into the various types of holsters available and see what you think would feel most comfortable. Big guns are easier to shoot but harder carry, and smaller guns carry nice but can be harder to shoot. You have to find an option that strikes the right balance between those for you.
While I think a semi auto is a better choice generally, what you posted is not necessarily a problem (or a problem period).
The first thing that wins a gun fight is not caliber, type of gun etc, its how well you shoot. If you are good enough, you can win with a 22 (I did carry one when I was younger and better reflexes and a good iron sight shooter).
I did a Practical Police Course 35 years ago doing just what you describe. My modus operendi was to shoot SA with a DA revolver (basically the same as your pure SA shooting).
I shot an excellent score and did it well within the time allotments. The instructors all were oriented to target shooting which was the draw to be at that school. I placed 3rd out of 20 some instructors. First time I had shot any course, let alone a challenging one like that. I had to figure out the ammo load out with speed loader, pocket rounds etc. I stuck with what I was comfortable with shooting wise, i.e. steady SA shooting.
What I had going was I had been shooting pistols a lot the previous two summers. Their gun was the same model I shot though the caliber was 357 using wadcutters. It was like shooting a 22 (mine was a 41 magnum).
So, slow careful shot placement beats spraying lead any day of the week. It not just beats it, its what wins gun fights. I have read a number of accounts where the officers finally quit spraying lead and settled down and shot like they were taught and won the fight.
Could I have done it with someone shooting at me? I think so from what I ran into and how I reacted, but you never know for sure. But the more you stick with what you are good at and comfortable with, the better your focus is on where it needs to be.
So, do not rule out a revolver if that works for you.
There is no logic (or good excuse) . I read the revolver part and failed to read the SA part.
Ironically, if he did his SA operating with the semi auto on the first shot he would be fine!
Not sure what actually would work for him if he can't make the shift other than to go with a DA revolver as I suggested and shoot it SA.
The PPQ is easily my favorite gun, BUT...
PPQs aren't necessarily great for concealed carry. They are one of the smaller full-size options, and they are light. Those are great qualities. The snag is that amazing trigger. Fantastic for range duty, or any situation where rule of law has broken down. Bad for carry under normal circumstances.
In my opinion, the Walther P99AS is among the best choices among full size guns, for concealed carry. It has very similar dimensions and ergos to the PPQ, but also has a DA/SA trigger, striker indicator, and decocker. It is also durable, reliable, and a great shooter.
PPQs aren't necessarily great for concealed carry. They are one of the smaller full-size options, and they are light. Those are great qualities. The snag is that amazing trigger. Fantastic for range duty, or any situation where rule of law has broken down. Bad for carry under normal circumstances.
In my opinion, the Walther P99AS is among the best choices among full size guns, for concealed carry. It has very similar dimensions and ergos to the PPQ, but also has a DA/SA trigger, striker indicator, and decocker. It is also durable, reliable, and a great shooter.
BleedinPurple
New member
i will vote for the ppq...best trigger in a polymer gun you can find and most people will agree that a good trigger helps you become more accurate and is as reliable as anything i have seen.
Also i have zero worries about carrying the ppq becuase of the trigger...some say it is too light for carry, but if people can carry glocks, they can carry the ppq...the best thing you can buy after the gun itself is a good holster that covers the trigger completely...guns dont ever go off when the trigger isnt pulled and a good holster like crossbreed supertuck will prevent that from happeneing...
and since the ppq has become more popular there are many many more holster options available than a few months ago...
go and hold one and i think you will agree....shoot one and you will agree even more!
Also i have zero worries about carrying the ppq becuase of the trigger...some say it is too light for carry, but if people can carry glocks, they can carry the ppq...the best thing you can buy after the gun itself is a good holster that covers the trigger completely...guns dont ever go off when the trigger isnt pulled and a good holster like crossbreed supertuck will prevent that from happeneing...
and since the ppq has become more popular there are many many more holster options available than a few months ago...
go and hold one and i think you will agree....shoot one and you will agree even more!
Going back to what the OP stated as being familiar with single actions and having no experience with an auto, if your not going to learn how to shoot autos accurately, or learn to deal with a jam or malfunction, go with a good revolver in the 38/357 caliber that you can easily conceal
scrubcedar
New member
I plan on putting as many rounds through this thing as my budget and time allow. Because of my schedule a couple of range sessions a week shouldn't be a problem. I certainly enjoy shooting so I don't see this as anything but a good excuse to have fun. That was one of the other factors I was thinking about 9mm ammo sure is cheap! I don't mind putting in the time to do this right. Shot placement rather than power has always been the way I looked at it too. You've seen my ideas for concealment methods, are there DA revolvers that have 4"or even 6" barrels that could be comfortably concealed? I just want to say before I forget, this is a choice that I may end up betting my life on. I REALLY appreciate the all the time and advice I've been given.
peacefulgary
New member
I recommend the Ruger SR9c....
DBLAction454
New member
Seeing as you have to stay around the 500 mark I would recommend the G17. Reliable and right around your price range...
Also you should really learn how to carry on your person. Carrying in a bag is OK but you will not like leaving your bag with your weapon in it to even go to the bathroom. Even though the people you are around are trust worthy I can guarantee you wont want it out of your sight. And if you do then you maybe shouldn't be carrying.
Also you should really learn how to carry on your person. Carrying in a bag is OK but you will not like leaving your bag with your weapon in it to even go to the bathroom. Even though the people you are around are trust worthy I can guarantee you wont want it out of your sight. And if you do then you maybe shouldn't be carrying.
scrubcedar
New member
Thanks peacefulgary, DBL action454. Went looking for prices on the SR9c and found I could get a p95 for for almost exactly $100 less. They both look like good candidates. The SR9c looks a lot more comfortable to carry. The p95 seems to have a reputation for ruggedness and ease of use. I have to admit a bias toward Rugers. Has anyone handled these pistols? I've looked at the glocks and have heard very little but good about them. Has anyone bought/fired one of the police trade in glocks that seem to be out there? I'm really trying to shift more of my budget towards the holster/carry rig as I'm getting the feeling that there are any number of good or even great choices out there but if the pistol isn't comfortable to carry on me nothing good is going to happen long term.
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