Forward Assist - Why Everyone NEEDS Them...
- Thread starter Skans
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imashooter
New member
No problems with FA. In all my years of military service and civilian stuff, I never once needed it. But I do appreciate it being there if ever needed. It's a quick alternative.
I know a guy that used one once. Assisted a 300bo into a 556 chamber. Pulled the trigger & things got ugly. Luck was with him & just messed up his hand,the rifle wasn't as lucky.
It was a new box of 556 ammo that had a 300 bo round in it & he didn't notice it when loading the mag.
It was a new box of 556 ammo that had a 300 bo round in it & he didn't notice it when loading the mag.
Mongo_Bongo
New member
Saw a film about the M16 in basic in 1968. Official doctrine was that it was self-cleaning. NCO in charge said that it was official doctrine but here is the truth. If you don't clean them in the field, they could jam. If they jam you'll die. I was careful about cleaning and never had an issue with either rifle I was issued. I also hit he FA with a mag change.
The FA button doesn't have any mechanical advantage, so it doesn't magnify the force. It is similar to a charge handle attached to the bolt, like the one in side charger. Actually it transfers less forward force on the bcg because of the angle. It is a tool there for user to use. User misuses the tool is not the tool's fault.
You never need to use the tool. It is useless and takes up space. That's fair. Pay a bit more and get a slick side upper. I use it occasionally, so I save a bit of money and keep the feature. No point trying to convince and convert the other.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You never need to use the tool. It is useless and takes up space. That's fair. Pay a bit more and get a slick side upper. I use it occasionally, so I save a bit of money and keep the feature. No point trying to convince and convert the other.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
FrankenMauser
New member
I think you mean turbo button.
It says a lot about the thought that went into each design, that AKs only have the power level selector part way down the barrel, but (most) ARs have a conveniently located turbo button.
It says a lot about the thought that went into each design, that AKs only have the power level selector part way down the barrel, but (most) ARs have a conveniently located turbo button.
Not being up on current slang, I'm unsure what the turbo or sniper button could be, but I don't see how the forward assist could be either of those.
The first M16A1 I was issued had the "teardrop" forward assist button, and that was the friendliest feature I've ever experienced on a fire arm. I mean that sucker would reach out and hold on to EVERYTHING. Sticks, stems, leaves, even my web gear and clothes. And, don't even think about being able to move underneath a camo net!
100% of my use of the forward assist was getting it unhooked from what it got snagged on. And, I'm serious, 100%. I never used it as a forward assist.
My second M16A1 was newer and had the round button. Reduced the snag factor about 90% and got the same amount of use as a forward assist as the previous rifle did.
I did use the FA on a civilian gun, got a batch of poorly sized ammo, and used the forward assist to ensure complete chambering. One time, it did. The next 4 times, (because I was stupidly stubborn) it did not fully chamber the bad rounds, it jammed the gun up so tight you could not open it with the charging handle, and I had to disassemble the gun to clear it.
For comparison, I was also shooting a Mini 14 at the time, and the bad ammo only failed to chamber about 1/4 as often as the AR jammed and a rap on the back of the op rod handle always locked the gun shut, and it fired.
The Forward assist was a "solution" to the design having a charging handle that only worked in one direction. I've had HKs, FALs and many others, and for me having a large, STEEL charging handle that moves the bolt back when pulled back and moves it forward when pushed forward is the superior system.
The first M16A1 I was issued had the "teardrop" forward assist button, and that was the friendliest feature I've ever experienced on a fire arm. I mean that sucker would reach out and hold on to EVERYTHING. Sticks, stems, leaves, even my web gear and clothes. And, don't even think about being able to move underneath a camo net!
100% of my use of the forward assist was getting it unhooked from what it got snagged on. And, I'm serious, 100%. I never used it as a forward assist.
My second M16A1 was newer and had the round button. Reduced the snag factor about 90% and got the same amount of use as a forward assist as the previous rifle did.
I did use the FA on a civilian gun, got a batch of poorly sized ammo, and used the forward assist to ensure complete chambering. One time, it did. The next 4 times, (because I was stupidly stubborn) it did not fully chamber the bad rounds, it jammed the gun up so tight you could not open it with the charging handle, and I had to disassemble the gun to clear it.
For comparison, I was also shooting a Mini 14 at the time, and the bad ammo only failed to chamber about 1/4 as often as the AR jammed and a rap on the back of the op rod handle always locked the gun shut, and it fired.
The Forward assist was a "solution" to the design having a charging handle that only worked in one direction. I've had HKs, FALs and many others, and for me having a large, STEEL charging handle that moves the bolt back when pulled back and moves it forward when pushed forward is the superior system.
Side charger. But like FA, people don't care about it either. The handle could nag too.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Anything that sticks out from the rifle can snag, and I put up with that for things that actually DO things. The FA does nothing, unless there is a malfunction and then MAYBE it will work, maybe not.
There are quite a few firearms that were not designed by people with experience using firearms in combat. Some of those designs were outstanding in their day, some, not so much.
Engineers often look at the world differently than operators. The original AR 15 wasn't a bad rifle, but some of its features proved less than the best as a military combat weapon.
Awkward charging handle only working one way, and made of thin aluminum, the "wait a minute" 3 prong flash suppressor, the relatively fragile handguards, the "not needed" then "needed" forward assist assembly are case(s) in point.
When you have a weapon with larger moving parts, or that doesn't lock up the way the AR does forward assists that aren't part of the standard charging handle are pretty rare. Simply because there is little or no recognized need.
There are quite a few firearms that were not designed by people with experience using firearms in combat. Some of those designs were outstanding in their day, some, not so much.
Engineers often look at the world differently than operators. The original AR 15 wasn't a bad rifle, but some of its features proved less than the best as a military combat weapon.
Awkward charging handle only working one way, and made of thin aluminum, the "wait a minute" 3 prong flash suppressor, the relatively fragile handguards, the "not needed" then "needed" forward assist assembly are case(s) in point.
When you have a weapon with larger moving parts, or that doesn't lock up the way the AR does forward assists that aren't part of the standard charging handle are pretty rare. Simply because there is little or no recognized need.
I bet this feature gets discussed way more often than actual events lead up to its actual use. At least in civilian context.
It does have a military use, and it’s been called in some above posts, “turbo button” etc.
But when needed in a firefight, it’s probably thought of as the “help me (deity of choice)!! button” or the “ oh (insert profanity here )!! button”
It does have a military use, and it’s been called in some above posts, “turbo button” etc.
But when needed in a firefight, it’s probably thought of as the “help me (deity of choice)!! button” or the “ oh (insert profanity here )!! button”
While the forward assist is known to have been a government mandated feature which wasn't approved of by Eugene Stoner and is functional detrimental in the case of a failure to feed because it's more likely to result in a stuck case, folks clearly want the forward assist on the AR-15 as evidenced by the fact that it's a standard feature on practically every AR Upper.
Heck, I even recall that back in the day when Smith & Wesson first introduced the original M&P15 Sport sans Forward Assist, it gained a surprising amount of criticism for the omission of such a feature with some even going so far as to say that the Forward Assist was "vital" to the reliability of the AR-15, so when Smith & Wesson released the M&P15 Sport II they added a Forward Assist.
Personally, I'm fine with the presence of the Forward Assist on my M&P15X, as it's part of the whole iconic M4A1 SOPMOD Block 1 appearance of the carbine, and although I'll most likely never use it since I'd be more apt to simply eject a round which failed to feed by pulling back the charging handle as Eugene Stoner intended, it is a comfort to know that it's there in case I should ever find myself in the unlikely self-defense scenario in which a round fails to feed and I don't have the luxury of manually cycling the action.
Heck, I even recall that back in the day when Smith & Wesson first introduced the original M&P15 Sport sans Forward Assist, it gained a surprising amount of criticism for the omission of such a feature with some even going so far as to say that the Forward Assist was "vital" to the reliability of the AR-15, so when Smith & Wesson released the M&P15 Sport II they added a Forward Assist.
Personally, I'm fine with the presence of the Forward Assist on my M&P15X, as it's part of the whole iconic M4A1 SOPMOD Block 1 appearance of the carbine, and although I'll most likely never use it since I'd be more apt to simply eject a round which failed to feed by pulling back the charging handle as Eugene Stoner intended, it is a comfort to know that it's there in case I should ever find myself in the unlikely self-defense scenario in which a round fails to feed and I don't have the luxury of manually cycling the action.
Some people told me voting for Hillary was vital to our nation. They were also wrong.
Clearly its not vital, the AR-15 was designed and ran reliably without one.
One might make the case it is useful for the M16 family of military arms, but I think "vital" is overstressing the point, considerably.
I can only think of one situation where the forward assist reliably performs an important task, and its NOT getting a stuck round into the chamber and locking the bolt shut. While that is the stated purpose of the FA, it only does it some of the time, and its a 50/50 chance on every time it is used for that.
Meaning, it either works or it doesn't. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, you may have jammed the gun so that it takes disassembly to clear the stuck round. I've done it /had it happen to me, it IS a real thing.
The one place I know of where the FA has a valid use and does work reliably is its role in returning the rifle to service after it gets submerged.
Since I no longer low crawl through rice paddies, roll in the mud or cross rivers and streams on foot, the odds of my rifle getting dunked are slim and none, and slim left town a while back.
Crankylove
New member
2 of my 3 AR’s have them, but only to fill the hole in the upper.
I’ve never really been a fan of jamming a problem round ever harder into the bore.
My SP1 doesn’t have one, and it’s been going fine since ‘73.
I’ve never really been a fan of jamming a problem round ever harder into the bore.
My SP1 doesn’t have one, and it’s been going fine since ‘73.
I have some with… some without.
Main ones without are 9mms and retro.
9mm bolts aren’t cut for them, and no point having a receiver with one that cannot work. There was a meltdown video of a Stern upper that the assist claw came off and jammed up the gun. Yet, Stern still sells uppers with forward assists. [emoji849] I switched to a slick side upper sometime before the pistol was SBRed. Other 9mm I have is a DOE clone, which I just got my stamp back (six days, crossing over Christmas… pretty impressive).
Retro… comes down to my H&R 604. I liked the original concept of the AR-15, and that is a lightweight 20” rifle. I really didn’t care about the forward assist… but it is the option that was available from PSA. I put in a chromed BCG, but I am happy with it.
I do have a rifle built on a KE Arms polymer lower, and that doesn’t have a forward assist. Not because I had to have the gun without it… just the parts I had for the build.
I have plenty of ARs with forward assists. Colt 6920, 20” NM upper and even my original DPMS build. The one I really want a forward assist on… .22 upper. I use the CMMG bolt with a Spikes dedicated upper. The forward assist block helps with any issues.
Main ones without are 9mms and retro.
9mm bolts aren’t cut for them, and no point having a receiver with one that cannot work. There was a meltdown video of a Stern upper that the assist claw came off and jammed up the gun. Yet, Stern still sells uppers with forward assists. [emoji849] I switched to a slick side upper sometime before the pistol was SBRed. Other 9mm I have is a DOE clone, which I just got my stamp back (six days, crossing over Christmas… pretty impressive).
Retro… comes down to my H&R 604. I liked the original concept of the AR-15, and that is a lightweight 20” rifle. I really didn’t care about the forward assist… but it is the option that was available from PSA. I put in a chromed BCG, but I am happy with it.
I do have a rifle built on a KE Arms polymer lower, and that doesn’t have a forward assist. Not because I had to have the gun without it… just the parts I had for the build.
I have plenty of ARs with forward assists. Colt 6920, 20” NM upper and even my original DPMS build. The one I really want a forward assist on… .22 upper. I use the CMMG bolt with a Spikes dedicated upper. The forward assist block helps with any issues.
The pistol caliber and .22LR ARs are blowback actions. They don't lock shut. The standard forward assist (and the slots on the bolt carrier where the pawl engages) is there to force the bolt carrier forward until the bolt locks shut so the weapon can fire.
Such a system would be of little use on a blowback action.
Such a system would be of little use on a blowback action.
Works well for me when I have a dirty rifle that has issue chambering a round…