First conceal carry pistol. Need some info

blackwaterstout

New member
i have the walther pps 9mm on my hip right now. it is practically the same gun as the xds, to the point that i'd swear SA stole walther's designs.

Are literally that close? Any chance they would have the same issues that the xds has in relation to the recall?

Ill have a chance to hold a lot of handguns later this week at Cabelas. Ill try to get a look at the PPS and shield.
 

kinoons

New member
Are literally that close? Any chance they <Walther PPS> would have the same issues that the xds has in relation to the recall?

The Walther PPS is a pretty well proven design now -- its been out for about 5 years or so. There was some scuttlebutt about early pistols and the slide release spring causing problems in a few pistols; I never had that issue myself, but apparently the spring and lever was redesigned and that issue no longer occurs for anyone. Today I'd wager the PPS is dead nuts reliable.
 
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IdahoG36

New member
There is no reason I can think of, no practical reason and no technical reason, to carry a wimp-ass cartridge. Carry something that has demonstrated sufficient oomph in real scenarios, or in scenarios you believe to be real. In my mind witha world full of hopped-up tweakers and folks who could give a rat's $$$ if you live or die, 9mm is the absolute minimum and ypu better have a bunch of 'em.

Oh boy.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
the walther pps has been great. the similarities are in ergonomics and size. the internals are most likely different. the pps 9mm and 40 came first. the xds 45 came first. i doubt they were actually copying each other, or the calibers released would have been in the same order. i was just saying that to define how similar in size and feel they are.
 

Erikbal

New member
I own a Bodyguard .380 (it was my first pistol) and it's still my EDC weapon. It's been 100% reliable without any malfunction of any kind. Yeah the trigger is kind of long and hard, but it's not a range gun. It's made for deep concealment and a last resort type situation. I trust mine with my life.

I don't think you could really go wrong with any on your list.
 

Sevens

New member
If I had -never- carried concealed before, I would keep this in mind:

Larger guns are more difficult to carry. Less comfortable to be worn, a bit harder to conceal. But -FAR- better for defense in every measurable way if & when it needs to be put in to service. We could write a small volume about why this is true.

If you START your adventures in concealed carry with something SMALL, everything you try in the future that is larger (better for defense, all else being equal) will be more difficult to carry.

I would start with something larger, and see how well you can pull it off, with regards to all day comfort and ability to conceal and dress around it.

Others disagree. Of course, -MANY- arm themselves with pocket guns and mouseguns and .32's and .22's and that's miles from my choice, also. On one hand, I am thrilled that they are carrying something, but I believe it simply isn't the best choice. But I only make decisions... for ME! ;)
 

ripnbst

New member
You know Sevens hit on a good point that hasnt really been touched on in this thread yet. A larger gun will be easier to shoot more effectively should you have to use it. Larger guns tend to have sights that are actually typically pretty good and the longer sight radius should help with accuracy as well.

That is another reason I choose to carry the 9c over the shield 9. While the Shield is surprisingly easy to shoot for its size, you still cant defeat the basic concepts of sight radius. Hits on target are great and misses are liabilities. In this lawsuit laden world we live in this is something you should take into account if you have the mind to carry in the first place. You are already preparing for an extremely unlikely situation, might as well be well prepared to respond effectively if it arises.

Another tidbit, a larger gun with a longer barrel will gain you velocity on the rounds fired making them more lethal though shot placement is really what is key, see above paragraphs.


Something to demonstrate to yourself what I am talking about and gauge your own effectiveness is rent that bodyguard .380 or a shield 9 again and ask the range if they have a shot timer, ask how to use it(simple as can be) and borrow it if possible or have them use it with you. There is also an Iphone app put out by surefire called shot timer but its not real great, just OK, and if the range is crowded forget it. Absent a timer, just note your hits out of 5.

Start from the low ready position as you wont have a holster for the gun and most ranges don't allow drawing to fire on the line anyway for civilians. Shooting as fast as you can effectively, that cant be stressed enough, put 5 rounds on a regular sized paper plate at 7 yards. If you cant do it, slow down until you can, and note your time(or hit percentage). You should be pushing yourself to shoot as fast as you can and consistently be hitting the plate. Now pick up that compact and do the same thing. The difference will be self-revealing.
 

blackwaterstout

New member
I can definitely see everyone's point in regards to the larger guns being more accurate and packing more punch. Truth be told it wouldn't hurt me at all to try carrying my 75bd police. Maybe Ill try that and see how it goes. I have to tell you though that I've been a minimalist for 41 years. I hate carrying my larger cell phone. I hate when my key ring gets too many keys and clogs up my pants pocket. I hate when my wallet starts getting "Castansa like". So my fear is that ill hate having that full size duty gun down my pants. Lol. It won't hurt to try.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, a thin single stack 9mm with 8 rounds is better in your pocket than a thick double stack duty gun sitting in your glove box because its uncomfortable to carry.

Right now I'm leaning toward the PPS as long as it feels good in hand. I guess if it doesn't work out I van always sell it and buy something else.
 

B.O.F.H.

Moderator
You are already comfortable and efficient with the 75. I would take honor in carrying a gun that I know I can hit with over the learning curve involved with any new gun any day of the week.

With the smaller guns, one often hears the excuse "it's not a range gun." Keep in mind that when the adrenaline dumps you will fall back on training.
 

JimmyR

New member
I personally CC my CZ 75BD (same gun as yours for the most part). I love the decocker only, and personally prefer SA/DA to any other action pistol.

When I need a smaller CC autoloader, I reach for my Makarov. In 9x18, it's a stout enough round, that isn't too pricey to practice with. The gun is fairly common, and feels right in my hand (not as nice as the CZ-75, but let's not get distracted). In addition, when i bought mine, it was inoperable in double action. I did the repair myself (with no gunsmithing experience and only a set of screwdrivers for tools), and paid a total of $30-$40 for the part plus shipping. Magazines are inexpensive at around $20 each. I put the safety on fire when I holster my weapon, and it sits ready with the hammer down if i need it.

Just my 2 cents
 

G. Gunman

Moderator
Here's the part of your question that bothers me the most:

Honestly I'm leaning toward another 9mm but maybe even a .380. I'm not worried about big bore guns. I just want something comfortable, reliable, and reasonably priced. I've held all 4 guns I'll list but have never fired any of them. All of these felt good in my hand.

The very last thing you want to have sticking out in front of you, or to be holding onto when, 'things get sticky' and you have to fight for your life is, 'something comfortable'.

I have over 50 years of experience with firearm self-defense; and I assure you it is a truism that: AN EDC PISTOL SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO BECOME A, 'SELF-DEFENSE PACIFIER'. Just because you've got some cute 'n comfortable little gun in your pocket does NOT mean that you are safe. True, you might feel safe; but, in reality, 'safe' is the last thing that you'll actually be!

There's the easy way to learn; and there's the hard way to learn. I'm positive that it's not going to take you more than your very first armed confrontation for you to discover that: The bigger the gun, the more powerful the cartridge, and the more bullets you have to defend yourself with, then, the more likely you're going to be to walk away from the encounter.

When you're suddenly confronted with the serious personal dilemma of being forced to fight for your life you're going to want as much gun in your hand as you can possibly wield, effectively! One of the important things this means is that YOU'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE(S) BETWEEN A PRIMARY CARRY GUN, AND A, 'BUG'. Very few experienced gunmen will, of their own volition, go into personal combat while wielding a, 'bug'; and any that do will be operating, expediently, under extreme duress!

This said: ALL, but (perhaps) one, of the pistols you're considering are, in fact, 'cute little bugs'. I've no doubt they're, all, very comfortable to carry, and might even be comfy to shoot, as well; but genuine self-defense, 'fighting weapons' they ain't! No one pistol can be all things to all people. My suggestion? Let your wife select her own handgun. If your wife is anything like my wife, then, she won't carry her pistol all of the time, anyway. Instead what you're going to hear is, 'What do I need to carry my gun for?' 'I've got you!' :rolleyes:

True, a lot of people are going to disagree with the views I've just expressed; but, then again, a lot of people have never had to suddenly go face-to-face with three sadistic and determined drug dealers. I don't carry or use compact (or subcompact) little, 'pacifier pistols' as a primary handgun. Use a quality gun belt and holster, and you'll be fine. Use a decent sized 9mm, or better, pistol and you'll, also, stand a much better chance of walking away from your next armed encounter, too!




NOTES: By the way, 'feels good in your hand' mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It's just more, 'personal security pablum' for ingenuous internet pistoleros to comfort themselves with. To wit: I was trained to handle firearms and shoot by three United States Marine Corps officers (my uncles).

My real personal opinion? Screw, 'feels good in the hand'. My uncles trained me to pick up any gun, anytime, and anywhere, and then to use it effectively. The concept of a weapon, 'feeling good' in the hand was as completely antithetical to each of my experienced (Korean War veteran) uncles as it is to me, today.

There's real world, armed self-defense; and there's real-time, internet self-defense. The one is not equal to the other. What sounds good on the Internet (or currently appeals to the popular mind) often doesn't work well on, 'the mean streets'. Do whatever you will; but, my suggestion would be to stay away from: cute, little, 'feel good', subcompact pistols, and 380 ACP caliber handguns. ;)
 
no one is arguing that a bigger gun will be easier to shoot accurately. but what's better - no gun or a small gun? i find myself being annoyed when i carry my comfortable gun. if i only had a medium sized gun, i would carry almost never. i'm not assaulting a crack house. i'm stopping a mugger or, at worst, a gas station hold up.
 

Rifleman1952

New member
It seems the majority of posters are leaning towards the "bigger is better" line of thinking, and that may be true if you are in law enforcement, but I don't think it good advice for the average citizen.

I started out carrying as big as possible, and found that I just wasn't carrying that often. It is easier to carry a full sized pistol in the winter months, but during the summer, I'm mostly wearing shorts & t-shirts, and that's where a pocket pistol, like the 5 shot revolvers and compact semi-autos shine. I carried an all steel S&W Mod 60 for years, but recently switched to a Bersa Thunder 380 CC, because it's lighter, flatter, and has the "old school" DA/SA trigger. I don't like the long, long DAO trigger pulls of most of the popular offerings.

If I'm expecting trouble, I'll grab a shotgun or semi-auto rifle. If I have to go into a bad neighborhood (which is rare now), I'll grab one of my duty sized pistols.
But if I'm just shopping or dining with my wife, I carry a medium sized pocket pistol, that I shoot well.
 
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jimbob86

Moderator
The very last thing you want to have sticking out in front of you, or to be holding onto when, 'things get sticky' and you have to fight for your life is, 'something comfortable'.

The Good Colonel did say, "Your gun is supposed to be "comforting" not "comfortable".

He was a proponent of the 75B carried C&L, IIRC.
 

Spats McGee

Administrator
blackwaterstout said:
. . . . Truth be told it wouldn't hurt me at all to try carrying my 75bd police. . . .
Personally, I think this is the best idea so far. We've got several members who successfully CC pistols comparable in size to this model on a regular basis. To emphasize something from the opening post:
blackwaterstout said:
. . . .I only own one handgun which is a CZ-75BD Police 9mm. The gun is perfect for me and I couldn't be happier with it. It's built well, feels great in my hand, and has never misfired. I trust it to protect my family and it's the gun I keep in my nightstand with Hornady Home Defense rounds. . . .
I've never shot any of the pistols under consideration, but if it ain't broke, why fix it? I suggest getting a good belt and holster and try that out first. If you need suggestions on wardrobe to make CC easier, we'll still be here. If you just can't CC the CZ, you can still use the belt for the new CC pistol, and you're really only out the cost of the holster, . . . which you could likely sell if you wanted.
 

ripnbst

New member
All I know is I hope no one who carries a single stack .380 ever faces two attackers for there is a good chance you will:

1. Shoot to slide lock
2. Enjoy reloading with the useless under high stress small lever on the bottom that is an abomination of a mag release
3. Miss your target(s) more than once

Of what you've listed the only one I'd give a chance is the Shield 9. My personal recommendation is the M&P 9c, or a Glock G19, or Springfield XD Compact. Outside of those I have experience but not enough to feel comfortable making a recommendation.

All those guns have:

Good Sights
"Enough" capacity
"Enough" Concealability
Combat effective triggers
Decent Sight radius given our goals


I just cant for the life of me(and it may come to that one day) justify a really small single stack pistol

Compact:
+Capacity
+Sights
+Sight Radius
+Lethality
+Triggers
+Mag releases
+Overall useability of controls
+Grip

Sub-Compact or other very small single stack guns:
+Concealability


The negatives of the very small guns far outweigh the positives. I am an engineer and looking at things you can actually quantify the compact wins out over the sub and smaller guns EVERY SINGLE TIME. I just cant bring myself to make all those sacrifices for concealability.
 

Spats McGee

Administrator
Let's move back towards the original questions, shall we?

blackwaterstout said:
Springfield XD-S in 9mm - . . . .
S&W M&P9c in 9mm - . . . .
S&W Bodyguard 380 - . . . .
Walther PPK .380 - . . . .

So if any of you have experience with some or all of these handguns I'd like your comments on the pros and cons of each gun and ultimately what you'd recommend. Thanks.
 
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