Family Felon

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Buzzcook

New member
But it's also the type of person who would visit just so they could tell their parole officer that I allowed a felon in my home while I had guns.
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That's the legal question.

Is the act of being in a place that has firearms a violation?

Would a felon be barred from going to Walmart because they sell guns? Would they be barred from a museum that had guns on display?

Doesn't it have to be a place were the felon resides? A place that they have control of or free access to firearms?
 
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Crazy88Fingers

New member
You can get a little gun cabinet from Stack On for a bit over $100 and bolt it to the wall. It ain't much, but it will reasonably secure the guns against unwanted visitors.
 
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Dreaming100Straight

New member
But it's also the type of person who would visit just so they could tell their parole officer that I allowed a felon in my home while I had guns. Yeah, that kind of person. So no, the threat of this person trying to gain access to a gun is zero, but the threat of them trying to cause me grief is substantial.
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If that's the kind of guy I would go toe to toe with the wife before letting him in my home. But you know what you have to do to keep peace with the boss.

I had thought of a cable lock or other DOJ approved trigger lock, but as far as I know one would still allow access to your guns. At a minimum, I would go with a $100 stack on gun cabinet.
 
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kilimanjaro

New member
If he's the vindictive type of idiot you believe him to be, I wouldn't let him in my house, but you have to keep harmony there.

Get a good gun safe, put it all in there, and make sure the wife's jewelry and other valuables are in there as well, just so she gets the idea not to trust him. Put passports, ID, and credit cards in there, too.
 
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Doc Intrepid

New member
The nice thing about having a safe is that you can put things other than guns in it.

Remember the saying about an ounce of prevention being better than a pound of cure?

If you have some passive aggressive relative who would love to cause you grief, particularly when all they have to do to cause you grief is simply show up at your place when you're not home, it's worth the price of a gun safe to head that crap off at the pass. How much is your peace of mind worth?
 
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Dreaming100Straight

New member
I was looking at something and I think a gun lock definitely can be a problem. A felon is prohibited from having either possession or control. While you can argue that he doesn't have full control if the gun is secured with a DOJ gun lock, if they can pick it up they are in possession and can more easily take the gun someplace where the can more easily drill the lock or cut a cable.

You didn't say anything about this, but if you are concerned that he is such an AH that he would visit just so he can get you in trouble for allowing him access to firearms, I wouldn't trust him not to be dealing drugs out of your home.
 
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Koda94

New member
I was looking at something and I think a gun lock definitely can be a problem. A felon is prohibited from having either possession or control. While you can argue that he doesn't have full control if the gun is secured with a DOJ gun lock, if they can pick it up they are in possession and can more easily take the gun someplace where the can more easily drill the lock or cut a cable.
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If you can put a cable lock on a gun you can put another one on to secure it to something immovable. I'm not saying cable locks or trigger locks are not easily defeated or the best solution, but I'm saying if you cant afford a safe there are very affordable ways to prevent unauthorized access. I dare say if one can afford a firearm one can afford a $10 cable lock, or two, and secure it to something solid or impractical to remove in a hurry. This at a bare minimum solves the problem and removes all liability if they do cut the cables.
 
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Dreaming100Straight

New member
You don't have to prove the felon cut the lock. Anyone charging has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you permitted the felon to possess or control a firearm. If a gun lock is good enough, and I do not know that it is, they have to prove you cut the cable. You do not have to prove that you did not cut it.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
You don't have to prove the felon cut the lock. Anyone charging has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you permitted the felon to possess or control a firearm. If a gun lock is good enough, and I do not know that it is, they have to prove you cut the cable. You do not have to prove that you did not cut it.
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I disagree.

We're talking about a relative who is reportedly prepared to lie to create problems for the OP.

If the guns are locked in a safe or a "gun case" [think Stack-On, for example], the guy would have to physically damage the container to access the guns. That damage would be obvious to any investigator.

Cable gun lock? Cut the cable, take the lock and the gun down the street, discard the cut lock in any dumpster behind any Quik Mart. Parole officer finds the felon with a gun, felon says, "Yeah, my cousin's husband OP gave it to me."

Now how do you prove he's lying?
 
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Koda94

New member
Aguila is correct, that’s why I said its not the best solution I’m just saying its better than nothing. The sentiment I was getting (correct me if wrong) is the OP doesn’t want to… or cant buy a safe so I’m assuming there is a money issue with that, but its not like there are no options that are affordable.

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*I agree that if the thief wasn’t just trying to steal but also to screw over the OP then he would also take the cut lock evidence with him… if that’s the suspicion then for me there would be no discussion come hell or high water with the wife there would be no invite whether the OP is at home or not, that’s where the real issue is in thiscase... I would get the discussion out of the way.
 
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Daugherty16

New member
Safes come in many styles, sizes and prices

Get the most safe you can afford.

If you forego the fireproof aspect of a gun safe, the prices drop substantially. Some, like the cheapo Stack-on and others, are glorified filing cabinets but - this is important - i believe California accepts them as appropriate storage. They're not expensive, easy and quick to install, and you have the added advantage of having provided a barrier to any unauthorized use or theft.

if you can afford more, more is good. thick plate steel, fireproof ratings, cool paint jobs, all can be had for the right price. Bolted to the floor and the wall studs, they'll help hold the house up in an earthquake and keep your guns safe in a house fire.

Anyway, to access a firearm stored in even the cheapo cabinet, someone will leave definite signs of forced entry and you've got a pretty good defense against improper storage.
 
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Dreaming100Straight

New member
Cable gun lock? Cut the cable, take the lock and the gun down the street, discard the cut lock in any dumpster behind any Quik Mart. Parole officer finds the felon with a gun, felon says, "Yeah, my cousin's husband OP gave it to me."

Now how do you prove he's lying?
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Again. The prosecution has to prove every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. All it has the word of the felon, who is also facing theft charges (I don't know if it is burglary) for stealing your gun. A prior felony is admissible to impeach the guy. The wife should be able to testify that the gun was locked with a cable gun lock. You might also have proof of purchase of the lock with a credit card or receipt. All agree that a safe is better and the sturdier the better. You can also get the kind of locking cable that is bonded with epoxy to a metal frame as though it was welded.
 
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Scimmia

New member
Again. The prosecution has to prove every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. All it has the word of the felon, who is also facing theft charges (I don't know if it is burglary) for stealing your gun. A prior felony is admissible to impeach the guy. The wife should be able to testify that the gun was locked with a cable gun lock. You might also have proof of purchase of the lock with a credit card or receipt. All agree that a safe is better and the sturdier the better. You can also get the kind of locking cable that is bonded with epoxy to a metal frame as though it was welded.
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And all of that happens after you're arrested, spend some time in jail, and spend thousands on a lawyer.
 
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WyMark

New member
I'm going to look at a cheap Stack-on, haven't found one locally yet but I can get one shipped to Wal-mart if I have to. It's heavy enough that if it was turned to face the wall this person wouldn't be able to turn it enough to open it. But I'll probably spend a couple hundred more and get something that's at least somewhat secure instead.

While I was looking at safes I came across this article on Forbes, "Unsafe Gun Safes Can Be Opened By A Three Year Old", and wondered if anyone had an opinion or comment. The linked article contains pretty disturbing videos of a young child opening several of these safes. I think my handgun safe may be one of these types, but at least it's bolted to the wall.
 
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colbad

New member
I think you are looking at this kind of backwards. It is incumbent on the felon not to possess a firearm. This would most likely violate his parole and certainly violate federal law.

If he is in a position where he can put his dirty little hands on a firearm....he is in constructive possession. Personally, I would let them know that you have firearms and he could be violated with his parole officer (assuming he has a tail) just for being in a house with firearms. Should also let him know that he could also be prosecuted for constructive possession. If that does not scare him away, its on his head not yours.
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
That video isn't even in English. I don't put a lot of credence in it. That said, I also don't like electronic, digital locks. For a "safe," I prefer a traditional, rotary dial. For a less expensive gun storage cabinet, Stack-On has a full line of cabinets that lock with keys, and there isn't any three-year-old who's going to open one of them buy bumping the cabinet a couple of times.

http://www.stack-on.com/categories/security-cabinets-gun-cabinets

The doubles are handy -- one side for long guns, the other side for handguns.

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Can they be broken into by a moderately motivated person with simple tools? Yes -- but not without leaving clear evidence that the cabinet was broken into. Not recommended for absolute theft protection, but more than adequate for satisfying legal requirements for locking up guns, and for keeping honest people honest.
 
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