FAL vs. AR10...convince me.

[fix]

I've been an AR10 owner for close to a year now. I have the AR10A4 Carbine. My father turns 50 this year and has always admired the rifle...in fact, he's downright jealous. He's got the money to buy his own, but is too darn cheap to go do it. I've discussed buying a FAL with my accountant (wife) and she has limited me to having only one >$1000 rifle in the inventory. I'm thinking of having my AR10 refinished and giving it to my father for his birthday. It will either be replaced with a 20" AR10A4 in Advantage Camo finish, or a FAL (looking at DSA and Enterprise Arms). Most of the FAL rifles I've fired have been lacking in the accuracy department compared to the AR10 (probably not fair), but displayed decent accuracy nonetheless. The ergonomics seem better on the AR, but then again, that's probably just my training with the AR and lack of training with the FAL showing. I'd like the opinions of the TFL crowd regarding these 2 rifles. Strengths, weaknesses, advantages of one over the other. Can I get MOA accuracy with a FAL without spending a fortune? How is the accuracy, muzzle blast, flash, recoil, etc, on the FAL carbines? FAL owners, convince me. AR10 owners who also own FAL rifles, please compare. This rifle will be used for hunting deer, and providing backup for my son with the 45-70 on black bear, plinking, defense, some 500-800 yd target shooting, and some informal backyard 3 gun training...in other words, everything. Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Christopher II]

Ouch. This is a spot close to my heart.

Accuracy is the big issue with the FAL. You will not make a FAL into a 1MOA rifle without major surgery. It can be done, I've seen it done, but I won't spend the money on it. A 2MOA FAL is pretty much as good as it gets (on the plus side, they don't get much worse than 2MOA either.)

Aside from that, it's a wash. Ergonomics are different, but equally good with both. The FAL is a bit heavier, but also a bit more durable. Recoil is similar, not an issue. The FAL has tons of cheap, reliable mags available for it, which is a major plus in my book. Muzzle flash on a 16" FAL should be no worse than on a 16" AR.

I have a FAL, and would like an AR-10, just to decide which is better once and for all. If you're comfortable with the AR, get another one, and pick up (or build up) a cheap FAL to play with. Call it a truck gun.

- Chris

 

[Frohickey]

FAL in single shot mode is more accurate than FAL in semi-auto mode.

FAL in single shot mode is close to what some bolt-action rifles can do.

 

[fix]

FAL in single shot mode is more accurate than FAL in semi-auto mode.

I assume you're talking about closing off the gas port entirely. Realistically, how much does this practice improve accuracy? Maybe I've just been spoiled by the AR10's unbelievable accuracy. 2 MOA is acceptable, but I'd really like to get closer to 1.5 for those 800 yd shots. What kind of trigger work can be done on the FAL? I'd like to get it down to 6 lbs or less.

 

[Nightcrawler]

If you really want more accuracy out of a FAL, take a look at DSA's heavy barrel models. They have free-floated barrels as well.

 

[Christopher II]

The trigger on the FAL is easy to work on, contrary to what some believe, but it can't be made as nice as the AR. It can get close.

If you really want to accurize your FAL, here's a rough list of things you have to do...

- Rebarrel. Get a top-of-the-line Badger tube from DSA. Headspace should be at a minimum.
- Get someone to work the trigger over. DSA can do this, too.
- Install a float tube.
- Either scope it or install one of the AR-style rear sights on it.
- This isn't really a modification, but ideally your reciever will not have the carry handle cut. Makes it a bit more rigid.

I've never shot my FAL with the gas port closed off, so I can't help you there.

- Chris

 

[Dave T]

Since all semiautomatics are magazine dependent, that would be the deciding factor for me. I would pick the FAL because of the availability and reliability of magazines.

 

[bastiat]

dangit, nightcrawler, you got me drooling over a fal again! Is it just me, or is that urban camo DSA incredibly cool looking?

 

[fix]

I haven't made a decision yet, but if I decide on a FAL it's definately coming from DSA.

 

[RikWriter]

Since you like the AR10 and have no complaints about it, I would stay with it. FALs are great, but why change if you're happy?

 

[fix]

Being happy with it doesn't necessarily mean I'm not open to new ideas. I have the opportunity to make a switch, so I'm considering it. Plus, mags are pretty expensive.

 

[orlando5]

Since you like the AR10 and have no complaints about it, I would stay with it. FALs are great, but why change if you're happy?

Exactly! Buy whatever makes you happy. Flip a coin if you can't decide. It always works for me.

 

[kotengu]

I had an STG-58 that shot just over 1 MOA as-issued (well, except for the req'd US parts). I noticed no noticeable difference in group size with the gas either on or off (there was a significant change in POI though). Right now it's at Ed Vanden Berg's to get the "works" and hopefully break the 1/2 MOA point. Ed's got the strongest free floated forearm out there and hand turns and chambers any barrel you'd like (he's doing a Shilen match-grade heavy barrel for me). He also does trigger work and much more. For about the price of the DSA stuff you can get a completely custom done gun that in my opinion is much more worth the money.

Vanden Berg Custom

 

[Nightcrawler]

Dang, Kotengu, how long is that barrel? Looks like 26". I have an Ergo G3 style grip on my DSA Austrian FAL as well. Really improves the handling for me (the grip angle on the stock grip is just too steep for my hand).

My FAL (DSA STG58A "Authentic Austrian FAL" 21") is my baby. I love it. I've never bought so many accessories for a rifle, and I'm still cookin'. I've toyed with the idea of sending it back to DSA to have it carbineized, but...nah. The extra muzzle velocity might come in handy if I ever get an opportunity to do proper 600 yard shooting (here's hoping), and the big faux-flash hider looks bad@$$. If I ever need to do room clearing, I'll get my shotgun. (Though I've practiced with my FAL in my house (unloaded, of course). It can be done, though even a 16" carbine barrel would be cumbersome in my narrow upstairs hallway...)

I'm in love.

 

[Christopher II]

I just recieved an e-mail from Justin at DSA stating that they are working on a tritium night-sight design for the FAL. They don't have a release date yet, but when/if it does come out, this will be the last thing the FAL needs to become a serious and versatile fighting weapon.

Kotengu, any idea how much the Vandenburg 16.5" FAL Carbine with the floated barrel runs?

- Chris

 

[fix]

Kotengu, any idea how much the Vandenburg 16.5" FAL Carbine with the floated barrel runs?

Looks like one of those deals where, if you have to ask...

 

[Coronach]

. I've discussed buying a FAL with my accountant (wife) and she has limited me to having only one >$1000 rifle in the inventory.

I must note that if you get the DSA STG-58 you are buying a sub-$1k rifle, and therefore would be within your accountant's guidelines in the area of arsenal stock. The DSA STG-58 is, for all practical purposes, just as good a top of the line DSA. You are merely limited to one configuration (As-issued, Steyr style) and you pay about $900.

So get the DSA and keep both. Yes, its creative accounting, but thats a good thing.

Mike

 

[fix]

I have been taking a hard look at those. Right now I'm leaning in that direction, based on what I've read about them. I laid hands on an Enterprise Arms STG-58C yesterday. I was NOT impressed. The fit and finish was just short of horrible. From what I've read, that's not a problem on the DSA guns. Does anyone know if DSA builds them on receivers without the carry handle cut?

 

[Christopher II]

Yup. Both the Type I and Type III recievers are available without carry handle cuts.

Have you looked at www.dsarms.com yet? They have lots of good stuff.

- Chris

 

[fix]

Their web page doesn't mention any choices regarding receiver configuration on the STG58 rifles. You pick type I or type II, with no mention of carry handle. You can, of course, specify with or without on the SA58 guns, but apparently not on the STGs. That's what I'm wondering.