BerettaCougar
New member
ooops...funny I was thinking bear, but bare came out..
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Extremists on this board?
- Thread starter BerettaCougar
- Start date
Just curious...BerettaCougar said:When we are at the range and we see people who are new to shooting, shoot 'gangsta' style, or using another wrong method. Instead of waiting until you get home to make a new thread topic, why not TRY to educate the person? Not in a condenscending way.
If this is your solution to reversing the anti-gun trend of this country's government, please explain how this is supposed to work.
Also...
Is that all you've got for a solution?
BerettaCougar
New member
Just curious...
If this is your solution to reversing the anti-gun trend of this country's government, please explain how this is supposed to work.
Also...
Is that all you've got for a solution?
Nope, that was just one example. And when did I ever say that was my solution to reversing the anti-gun trend? When did I ever imply that?
Mostly when your statement DIRECTLY followed the one above it.
We face more and more gun laws that will ultimately end with complete gun ban, Reason? Mostly because we are not unified.
When we are at the range and we see people who are new to shooting, shoot 'gangsta' style, or using another wrong method. Instead of waiting until you get home to make a new thread topic, why not TRY to educate the person? Not in a condenscending way.
I think you can reach more people and influence more opinions and educate more people on the internet than you ever will at the range or even at some city counsel meeting. Remember when you vote you are alone. You take with you only what you have learned up to that point. I look in on a variety of boards and in fact am working on putting up a web site in order to reach more people. BTW if you want to put up a web site it really isn’t that hard and only cost about $10, that’s to register the name. the rest is pretty much free.
As for newbies at the range shooting “Gangsta style” their education needs to start a little further back.
As for newbies at the range shooting “Gangsta style” their education needs to start a little further back.
Wow, Powderman, that was...well...beautiful. We, and by that I mean I, forget that the Bill of Rights doesn't grant us rights but enumerates those which any government cannot take away, and the framers knew an armed citizenry is the last bastion against tyranny. Man, I'm moving your post to a permanent file.
Last, but certainly not least, God bless the men and women who go into harm's way to defend our nation. I do not have the words to fully express my gratitude.
Last, but certainly not least, God bless the men and women who go into harm's way to defend our nation. I do not have the words to fully express my gratitude.
More guns less guns, more crimes less crimes - bottom line is you are looking to statistics to help you secure a fundemental right (or debate "reasonable" infringments on it). The problem is there is really NO direct coorelation between guns and crimes. While the numbers of guns in our society typically increases steadily, the crime rate numbers go up, and the numbers go down, and not in any apparent direct relationship. I do NOT want to count on THAT fact when sticking up for my inalienable rights. Do NOT rely on statistics!
What I DO know - is that "more guns and better guns" help ME deter crime - against ME, and that is what matters. We all joined this social contract to better protect our unalienable rights. Guns allow me to do just that.
"From my cold dead hands" is not the sign of a lunatic - it is the sign of someone who realizes that without the best convient means to defend ourselves (and if need be our collective liberty), then we are nothing but powerless victims against those who WILL (always want to) impose their will on us.
GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. And neither are 99.88% of all gun owners.
What I DO know - is that "more guns and better guns" help ME deter crime - against ME, and that is what matters. We all joined this social contract to better protect our unalienable rights. Guns allow me to do just that.
"From my cold dead hands" is not the sign of a lunatic - it is the sign of someone who realizes that without the best convient means to defend ourselves (and if need be our collective liberty), then we are nothing but powerless victims against those who WILL (always want to) impose their will on us.
GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. And neither are 99.88% of all gun owners.
What I DO know - is that "more guns and better guns" help ME deter crime - against ME, and that is what matters. We all joined this social contract to better protect our unalienable rights. Guns allow me to do just that.
Damn, I'm gonna tuck that one away someplace safe for future use. I've been trying to say just that thing for a while and I never seem to get it out right.
FirstFreedom
Moderator
however saying MORE GUNS LESS CRIMES is bogus.
What part of
"You are 100% wrong" on that, as I previously explained on page 1, and John Lott proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt,
Don't you understand, Beretta Cougar?
Allow me to repost what I said there on page 1:
John Lott PROVED - beyond any shadow or shred of any doubt, that More Guns = Less Crime, using impeccable, triple-regression-analyzed data. Did you read his book of that name? It may be counterintuitive the the average uneducated person (thus appearing to "put logic aside"), but the FACTS bear out that the opposite of what is intuitive for you and most people is true. Read the book. READ. THE. BOOK. (or come up with your own study to try to controvert the incontrovertible). No one, but no one, has been able to successfully dispute his proven findings that shall-issue CCW laws reduce violent crime, including MPSs.
So now that you are armed with the ability to obtain the truth, then only way "extremism" could continue to exist is if you persist is making false statement from here forward.
So are you going to continue to spew lies, proving to all that it is YOU which are the extremist, or are you going to accept the truth, or at least *attempt* to address why I said and John Lott proved?
If the object of gun control laws is the reduction of gun crimes, then mandatory additional sentences of 25 years without parole for any felony committed with a firearm would do it!
If the object of gun control laws is actually control of the citizens by their government, then laws which restrict ownership and use of firearms by that subject people are what is required.
Which path do you want to follow?
If the object of gun control laws is actually control of the citizens by their government, then laws which restrict ownership and use of firearms by that subject people are what is required.
Which path do you want to follow?
Gun ownership has little effect on crime, other things are taking place in Kenesaw GA. Like the fact that the town is 9 square miles and only has 21,000 people with an average annual income $25,000 higher than the national average. 91% of the town has a highschool diploma with 67% of the town having a college education. These key things are unlike many parts of this country. Compare that with ANY major crime area
I do not know if the statistics are correct, but it has been an opinion of mine that a strong middle class is the best deterrent to crime.
The middle class has good values, family, religion, a work ethic, savings, fairness, an optimism for the future: “make tomorrow a better place for your kids”, and trust in the institutions of Government. The middle class wants to protect what it has worked very hard to create.
When trust in the Government breaks down, when middle class ethics disappear, you get chaos. Regardless of the gun laws.
The most dangerous thing around is a hate filled Government. We have seen time after time how the choice of bad leaders initiated the conditions for genocide. A strong middle class is the best protection against bad leaders, as sometimes they will kick out Genocidal nuts before the bad leaders take total control. But if the Genocidal Nuts are patient, deliberate, given enough time, the Nuts will be in charge. Then having a gun at home won’t protect you as the state will be organized to isolate and destroy fractious individuals.
What I DO know - is that "more guns and better guns" help ME deter crime - against ME, and that is what matters. We all joined this social contract to better protect our unalienable rights. Guns allow me to do just that.
Damn, I'm gonna tuck that one away someplace safe for future use. I've been trying to say just that thing for a while and I never seem to get it out right.
You are absolutely right. I think that nails it. If we start with me being better equipped to prevent crime against me, which obviously works, I mean it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand it, or perhaps it would be fairer to say that even a rocket scientist could understand it. Then the next logical step is to take what works for me, the individual and multiply it by every individual. End result, less crime.
AMEN!"From my cold dead hands" is not the sign of a lunatic - it is the sign of someone who realizes that without the best convient means to defend ourselves (and if need be our collective liberty), then we are nothing but powerless victims against those who WILL (always want to) impose their will on us.
Some folks believe, however naively, they can reason with bad guys who want to do them harm. Let us know how that works out for you if you're ever in that position. But I'd prefer to at least have a fighting chance. Without a means to defend yourself, 'cold, dead hands' is a very likely outcome.
cold dead hands
Moderator
When you say crime, you are mostly referring to violent type crimes, right? Murder, B and E, rape, assault, robbery, multiple DWI's...that kind of stuff right?
Because I have a really radical idea. Here is how it works. If a person commits one of those types of crimes he get no less than 25 years with no parole. A second offense is life. Murderers get life, no questions asked.
And none of this releasing violent offenders early to make room for morons who had too much pot in their pocket or had a plant in their house kind of crap. Did you know that the average time served for murder in the state of Arkansas is 7 years? Not much punishment for a person who insured that daddy/mommy/sister/brother/son/daughter will never come home again.
If someone is caught in the act of commiting one these types of crimes by a non-LEO he must expect that his right to life has been renegged and is quite possibly over that day. No legal fiascos, prosecutions or persecutions for the person forced to use lethal force. Just some questions asked by the police and go home. The detective can give an interview when it is convenient to the person who had to use lethal force. None of this grilling victims or defends while they wear handcuffs all night at the station crap either.
Make criminals afraid of a real punishment and you might be suprised that they want to straighten up and fly right. Make them understand that commiting an act of violent nature is signing their own death warrant. Make it abundantly clear that the potential victim is no longer going to live in fear of the law or the lawless.
You want a safer society, tell everyone you to grow some steel cajones, suck it up and fight back. We don't have to take it.
I wonder if you ever considered that politicians and judges are going soft on criminals in the street so that we are too busy being concerned about that in order not to notice all the white collar crimes they and their friends are commiting. Think about that for a liitle bit.
I said it before. Everyone walking the street should be armed. The bad can kill off the bad more easily and the good can kill off the bad easily too. The armed polite society comes into existance. Eventually the bad fall in numbers so badly they could almost be an after thought. Only problem with getting rid of the bad is that the great utopia will be proclaimed to exist and that no one needs to armed, so turn in your guns. Everyone does because crime is almost nonexistant. Next thing you know crime makes a roaring come back and everyone is defenseless again.
If wanting to actively take out the bad makes me a barbaric extremist, then so be it.
Because I have a really radical idea. Here is how it works. If a person commits one of those types of crimes he get no less than 25 years with no parole. A second offense is life. Murderers get life, no questions asked.
And none of this releasing violent offenders early to make room for morons who had too much pot in their pocket or had a plant in their house kind of crap. Did you know that the average time served for murder in the state of Arkansas is 7 years? Not much punishment for a person who insured that daddy/mommy/sister/brother/son/daughter will never come home again.
If someone is caught in the act of commiting one these types of crimes by a non-LEO he must expect that his right to life has been renegged and is quite possibly over that day. No legal fiascos, prosecutions or persecutions for the person forced to use lethal force. Just some questions asked by the police and go home. The detective can give an interview when it is convenient to the person who had to use lethal force. None of this grilling victims or defends while they wear handcuffs all night at the station crap either.
Make criminals afraid of a real punishment and you might be suprised that they want to straighten up and fly right. Make them understand that commiting an act of violent nature is signing their own death warrant. Make it abundantly clear that the potential victim is no longer going to live in fear of the law or the lawless.
You want a safer society, tell everyone you to grow some steel cajones, suck it up and fight back. We don't have to take it.
I wonder if you ever considered that politicians and judges are going soft on criminals in the street so that we are too busy being concerned about that in order not to notice all the white collar crimes they and their friends are commiting. Think about that for a liitle bit.
I said it before. Everyone walking the street should be armed. The bad can kill off the bad more easily and the good can kill off the bad easily too. The armed polite society comes into existance. Eventually the bad fall in numbers so badly they could almost be an after thought. Only problem with getting rid of the bad is that the great utopia will be proclaimed to exist and that no one needs to armed, so turn in your guns. Everyone does because crime is almost nonexistant. Next thing you know crime makes a roaring come back and everyone is defenseless again.
If wanting to actively take out the bad makes me a barbaric extremist, then so be it.
The Tourist
Moderator
obxned said:Which path do you want to follow?
I want to follow the right path, and this is an idea that comes from thoughtful study and a careful use of the language.
For example, right here in River City, I know of an armed citizen, often espousing opposed concepts to my postulates, brazen enough to actually print his ideology, and incite additional viewpoints.
I speak of none other than TexasSeaRay. Egad, we ought to hunt him down like a rabid, egg-sucking spaniel and curtail any further blasphemy!
"Now wait a minute there, Tourist, the TSR simply disagrees with you sometimes."
And that's my point. I once proffered in a gun forum that Sarah Brady should be given a free membership to come to that discussion section for debates. When I posted that it was like I adopted the Marx Manifesto and sold my Harley to buy a Zil.
I further added that the safest place in the USA for Ms. Brady was in my home. And I believe it, and would live it.
Independent and honest ideas and concepts might seem extreme. However, at the end of the day I'd rather be challenged to look and think in new ways.
And speaking of the idea of "live it," go to the Harley home page and run the video "Live By It." If it doesn't stir your heart and make you glad you're a free-thinking American, nothing will, and you need a neatly printed toe-tag.