Extremists on this board?

BerettaCougar

New member
More guns, better guns will not do a thing except make gun crime more common.

Saying "more guns = less crime" is saying you're willing to put all logic aside.
Look at the state of Florida, one of the most gun populated states, and one of the highest gun crime states. So before you spew that junk to a fence swinger, think about what you're saying...change the item at hand. "More cars = less accidents"?

Some of us here are so fixed on this failed idea that having a gun will automatically make you inviolable. Somehow having a gun on your hip or (like some extremist here think) an automatic rifle on your back will make you incapable of being shot or stabbed yourself.

Criminals will continue to be criminals, they will continue to persue the upper-hand, We hardly see machine guns used in crime because they are controlled.
Other things are in control of gun crimes; population, land mass, local demographics are the things REALLY effecting crime in general, NOT GUN LAWS.

We know the politicos are highly uneducated or willing blind to see that banning guns will have no positive effect on crime rates, but hey feel good laws are what the people (majority) want. If you don't like your local gun laws you have two options, do something to change the law, or move to a different location. Saying crap like "from my cold dead fingers" makes us all seem like barbaric lunatics. We are a land of laws, the people decide the law (once again, the majority). We live in a democratic state, basically the majority wins. If you don't like that, then you my friend should do something to change your local law, or get to packin'...your bags that is.

PS. Going on an internet gun forum preaching about an upcoming revolution does not help us out...
 
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JuanCarlos

New member
We live in a democratic state, basically the majority wins. If you don't like that, then you my friend should do something to change your local law, or get to packin'...your bags that is.

Untrue. I'll leave the whole democracy vs. republic thing alone, even, and just note that we live in a democratic state with a Constitution. A Constitution which contains two things: a protection of the right to keep and bear arms, and a process by which it can be amended.

It take more than a simple majority of the voters to do that.

Quite honestly, if the Constitution was amended to overturn the second amendment, you'd probably not hear me complain. After all, at that point I'd say it truly would be the will of the people, and not just 51% of them. I'd probably wind up packing (because at that point there a number of places I'd rather live) but that's about it.

PS. Going on a internet gun forum preaching about a upcoming revolution does not help us out...

This, on the other hand, is all too true.
 

Jets2007

New member
I don't think theres too many (if any) extremeists on here. Most of us are constitutionalists that strongly believe in the 2nd amendment.

TFL has a pretty diverse group of people that post- blue collar, white collar, doctors, lawyers, other professionals, law enforcement officers, military, business people, republicans, conservatives, a few liberal democrats here and there... there are people from all parts of the country (and world).

I am a bit annoyed with the governemnt- to say the least. They have screwed up a lot of things. If you ask me, congress should be in session 3 months a year... and after that only on an emergency basis. This will force them to pass a yearly budget. After the 3 months is up, the should be forced to go home and work normal jobs like most Americans do... sadly, none of that will ever happen.
 

BerettaCougar

New member
JuanCarlos, you're forgetting the part that states also have the right to pass law's as well. Laws that the majority (51% is a majority) want, or fail to fix.

I am ALL for the right to bare arms, I am not for spreading junk on the internet that concerns my right to bare arms.
 
I know I've ruffled some feathers, but I really don't care. If you think I'm bad here, you see me in real life.

I am a ''more guns'' person. The SCOTUS ruled that protection is to given not to an individual but to society as a whole by the police. I say that everyone should have a gun. Eventually the bad guys will get killed off and crime goes the way of the dodo for the most part. An armed society is a polite society.

If you want FA (and supressors) left in the control of the ATF, fine, but I want that '86 no new full autos for the public crap revoked. I don't want to pony up three gand or more for a $300 stamped steel FA that is a minimum of 21 yrs. old now.

I've never understood the cars vs. guns thing. If everyone had a gun it doesn't mean they are going to start shooting like maniacs. However, nearly everyone has to drive somewhere. So...um...what was the point...'cause I don't get it.

As far as Florida goes, that's Florida. I don't think it can be explained. I've got plenty of family in Florida and they say it is like visiting another country when you visit. They're right. On the flip side to your arguement, Cali has some of the worst gun control and crime is a big concern there.

I say from my cold dead hands for a reason. I mean it. We don't have much liberty left and they want to steal more from our children. Resolution to defend your god given rights seems to be waning these days.
 

TexasSeaRay

New member
If you don't like that, then you my friend should do something to change your local law, or get to packin'...your bags that is.

Sorry, no.

A lot of us here swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution--abroad or here at home, or both.

Myself, I swore, on three separate occasions for three separate commissions, to uphold and defend the Constitution.

For a lot of us here, that doesn't mean bailing and running every time the anti-freedom crowd breaks wind and whines for a new gun control law. It doesn't meant huddling and bleating senselessly like a scared flock of sheep. It means standing firm for our convictions and our rights. It means being assertive in defending our rights--not being passive and hoping that the enemy "will like us" or "respect us" and then leave us alone. That argument is being used for the terrorists and it holds about as much empty water as hoping the anti-gunners will leave us alone.

A lot of us here have put ourselves in harm's way defending the Constitution. We have a lot invested in it. A lot of us here have lost comrades in the battle to defend our our rights, our freedoms and our way of life--both abroad and here at home.

A lot of us here feel that our Bill of Rights is the most precious document this, or any other government has ever produced and that it is solely responsible for us being the greatest nation on earth.

In other words, being a proud supporter of the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights does not make one a second-class citizen. It does not mean that we have to be apologists and compromise with those who wish to completely abolish our right to keep and bear arms.

But if that means that makes me an extremist, then so be it. I'd sure rather be an extremist as opposed to being a pacifist or apologist.

Jeff
 

jfrey123

New member
I don't think theres too many (if any) extremeists on here.

Sorry I'm late. Just got back from the shack in the hills, and my internet doesn't work well up there. Something to do with the electronic interference that is caused by the metal in the 6 years supply of canned food and ammunition I've stock piled underground. Now I've got to get back to my MRE before it gets cold. Then it's off to the nightly procedure of field strip, clean, lubricate and reassemble the entire collection of 372 guns I normally keep loaded and stashed through out the apartment for when WW3 comes. :cool:


No extreme thinkers here. :D
 

BerettaCougar

New member
I say that everyone should have a gun.
I say: Everyone should have the right to have a gun.

Eventually the bad guys will get killed off and crime goes the way of the dodo for the most part.
'Bad guys' have always existed, and will always exist.

Relying on them to 'kill themselves off' is no where near a fix to our current gun crime issue.

Preaching the cold dead hands thing is saying that with your gun, the law does not apply to you. That because you have a gun you are not subject to your state law. This is flawed.

Florida is like any other state. Anyone can manipulate data to make it say what they want it to say. The safest city this year is a city in NJ. The most dangerous is a city in MS, which has gun laws almost identical to FL and TX.

Does this mean anything? NO. Demographics of the area govern crime rates.

A lot of us here have put ourselves in harm's way defending the Constitution. We have a lot invested in it. A lot of us here have lost comrades in the battle to defend our our rights, our freedoms and our way of life--both abroad and here at home.

I'm guess you are previous (or current) military, please tell me how you being in the military within the last 30 years or so has been beneficial to protecting the constitution. What do you do EXTRA that no other freedom loving American does? Don't pull the military card, Thanks.

A lot of us here feel that our Bill of Rights is the most precious document this, or any other government has ever produced and that it is solely responsible for us being the greatest nation on earth.

I would agree with this, I'm not sure when I stated different. if the majority of the people of your state or city wish to give up their right to firearm ownership, then it is up to that city/state. Local government does have the legal right to pass laws, please do not forget that. So if you like your right to keep and bare arms, fight for it, actually fight for it. don't come on an internet forum and gripe and moan about it.

In other words, being a proud supporter of the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights does not make one a second-class citizen. It does not mean that we have to be apologists and compromise with those who wish to completely abolish our right to keep and bear arms.

I too am a proud supporter of the Second Amendment, I do not support people who claim to be part of our movement that chant about their willingness to break the law. Face it, we are a nation of law. Don't like your local laws, VOTE...get active in your local government.

But if that means that makes me an extremist, then so be it. I'd sure rather be an extremist as opposed to being a pacifist or apologist.

TexasSeaRay, by no means am I saying to bail on your beliefs, I am not advocating more gun laws, I am advocating legal proactivity in defending our rights. Not bickering on the internet over stupid gun laws.
 

Powderman

New member
Sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

In reality, there is no such thing as a "common sense gun law". What is needed to stem crime is vigorous enforcement of criminal law, and severe penalties for breaking that law. Steal from another person to feed your family, then you repay the person you stole from.

Steal for any other reason, do 10 years--MINIMUM. No parole.
Hurt another person wilfully, and not in self defense, go to prison for at least 20 years. No parole.
Kill someone, not in self defense, and not to stop violent criminal acts? You get the chair, needle, firing squad, whatever. ASAP.

The Second Amendment (in the words of the 9th Circuit Court, long recognized as the MOST liberal of the Courts) is a doomsday provision; one which is meant to ensure that the average citizen has the means to counter the criminal acts of a government gone terribly, horribly wrong. It is the recognition of the means to prevent a Nazi Germany, or a Cambodian killing field, or a African genocide, or another Wounded Knee from happening here. It's not about duck hunting, or common sense. It never was, and never will be.

Like another poster mentioned, I took oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I took oaths to defend this Nation, and I will defend both. If the worst nightmares come true; if the worst fears become reality, you will find me face down in my own blood, with the Flag of this Nation in one hand--on a pile of smoking brass.

That's what the Second Amendment is about, my friend.

Here is an essay written by a TFL member, Dennis Bateman. His words state what I feel, and states it much better than I. The entire post is in the TFL archives, and I encourage you to read it. Here is his essay:

"It is a rare person who does not attach some sort of value or emotion to some physical object or to an event. A home becomes more than a building. A statue of the Virgin Mary, a crucifix, a flag or a song, or even a photograph can stir emotions greater than the value of the material item.

I have a piece of paper showing I served in the military until I was discharged honorably. But, oh, the memories that piece of paper conjures up. The friends, the fun times. The bad times. The times when we were bound closer to strangers than to our own families and, in frightening chaos, our lives hung by a thread.

Many of our friends died far from home. Ask us about the feeling of "American soil" upon returning to the land we loved. Ask those returning soldiers about America.

Remember the old, faintly humorous band of American Legionnaires, wearing out-dated military uniforms straining at the buttons. But, God how proudly they marched. Grinning, waving to friends and families, and always, always "The Flag!" Ask them if the flag is mere cloth, I dare you.

See the elderly lady sitting in a lawn chair watching the fourth of July parade. Three flags carefully folded some forty years ago into triangles now rest in her lap - one for each lost son. Ask her if those flags are mere cloth, I dare you.

Look at the old man quietly crying, leaning against the Iwo Jiima Memorial at Arlington Cemetery. As he turns to you, smiles with some embarrassment, and says in a choked whisper, "I was there." Ask him, "Is it just metal and clay?" Ask him. I dare you.

The Wall. My God, the Wall. See the young man lightly tracing the name of his father there inscribed. Ask him if its just rock. Ask him. I dare you.

My guns? They’re of little real value compared to my family and my home. They are toys, or tools, or both. But what those guns represent to me is greater than all of us, greater than myself, my family, indeed greater than our entire generation. What could be of such value?

The freedom of man to live within civil, self-imposed limitations rather than under restrictions placed upon him by a ruler or a ruling class.

Imagine the daring, the bravery of a few men to declare they intended to create a new country, independent of the burden of their established Rulers!

Those men we call our forefathers were brilliant men. They could have maneuvered themselves into positions of influence within the structure of the times, but they did not. They struggled to free themselves from tyranny. They wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they backed up their words and ideals with metal and wood.

They knew the dangers of such dreams and actions. They knew it was a frightening and dangerous venture into the unknown when they dared reach beyond their grasp for a vision - for an ideal. But they dared to dedicate themselves to achieve Liberty and Freedom for their children, and their children’s children, through the generations.

Imagine the dreams and yearnings of centuries finally being reduced to the written word. The Rights of "We the People!" instead of the "Powers of the Monarchy."

Our forefathers dared to create a new government - a new form of government. And they knew that any organization has, as its first and foremost goal, its continued existence. Second only to that it strives to increase its power. It plots, it devises, it maneuvers to achieve control over its environment - over its subjects.

Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them.

Other countries have had outstanding documents with guarantees for its citizens - but the citizens have become enslaved. How, these great men pondered, can we ensure this new government will remain subject to the will of the People?

They wanted limits upon this new government. Therefore, our forefathers wrote limitations into the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And one of those Rights was that metal and wood, as the final power of the people, would secure this country for the future generations.

Metal and wood were the means by which we won our freedom.

Metal and wood were the means by which we kept our freedom.

Metal and wood may be the means by which we regain our freedom.

Metal and wood are the final power of the people. Take away the metal and wood and the people become powerless - they can only beg, they supplicate for favors.

We are unique in our ability to rule ourselves but we are letting it slip away. Today we compromise. We try to appease man’s insatiable appetite for power by throwing him bits of our freedoms. But the insatiable appetite for power can not be appeased. The freedoms we feed him only make us weaker and him stronger. We must conquer him and again ensure the "Blessings of Liberty" won for us by our forefathers.

We must be ready to use metal and wood again, for if we are ready, truly ready, we may be able to conquer the monster with words - for in its heart it is a coward. But if we continue to feed the monster our freedoms, we will become too weak to win, to weak even to fight, and we will become a conquered people. We will have sold ourselves and our future generations into servitude.

If words fail us, we will use metal and wood, we will regain what we have lost, we will achieve what we seek, we will guarantee the America of our forefathers for the future generations.

So you see, our guns are more than metal and wood. They are our heritage of freedom. They are the universally understood symbol that the government, no matter how big and strong it may be, answers to us! They are the tools we will use to prevent tyranny in the land of our forefathers and our children. So, ask me what my guns mean to me. Ask my children what our guns mean to them. Ask us. I dare you."
 
I think that some people have forgotten that the British were calling for the heads of those ''extremists'' who lead us to victory and independence. Those same ''extremists'' gave you a fine government (in theory anyway) and tried to insure your rights would remain forever.

Would Washington hightail it out of California for Arizona because he didn't like the laws. I am pretty willing to bet he would want a machine gun wielding army and then fight for the rights he knew were his.
 

RDak

New member
We are rank amateurs when it comes to extremism compared to the anti-gun crowd.

Handgun Control Memo

Received info as follows:



In 1993, it was discovered that Handgun Control, Inc. had developed a

five year plan to disarm the law abiding citizens of the United States of

America. This plan continues with a total 15 year plan that includes

banning of military accouterments, censorship and the loss of the second

amendment.





The following is copy of a memo that leaked to the public...





D-Day is in January 1994...



This month will be crucial to swaying votes for Senator Feinstein's

Assault Weapon Ban. Once this passes, we will see the beginning of a

landslide that the NRA thugs will not be able to stop or their few pawns in

Congress be able to filibuster.

WHAT IS PENDING NOW AND CAN BE LAW IN 1994:

.Ban of all clips holding over six bullets

.Ban of all semi-autos that can fire more than six bullets without reloading.

.Ban on all pump shotguns capable of being converted to over five shots

without reloading

.Banning of all machine guns, destructive devices, short

shotguns/rifles, assault weapons, Saturday night Specials and non-sporting

ammunition

.Arsenal licensing (for possession of multiple guns and large amounts of

ammunition)

.Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship, long considered a

sacred cow and a dinosaur from the Cold War years (thank you, President

Clinton!)

.Ban on possession of a firearm within a home located within 1,000 feet

of a schoolyard

.Ban on all realistic replicas/toy guns or non-firearms capable of being

rendered realistic

.The right of victims of gun violence to sue manufacturers and dealers

to be affirmed and perhaps aided with money from government programs

.Taxes on ammo,dealer licenses and guns to offset the medical costs to

society and

.The eventual ban of all semi-automatics (regardless of when made or

what caliber)



What was only a dream 10 years ago can be reality as early as this year!





AFTER THE MEETING, THE FOLLOWING IDEAS WERE THE RESULT OF A

BRAINSTORMING SESSION TO GUIDE THE FOCUS OF GUN CONTROL

INITIATIVES OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. WE CONSIDERED THE BEST

IDEAS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY EXPANSION. THE TIME IS RIGHT FOR ACTION.





FIVE YEAR PLAN





Licenses



1. National licensing of all handgun purchases.

2. Licenses for rifles and shotguns: Strict licensing should be mandatory

for all firearms, whether handguns or not.

3. State licenses for ownership of firearms.

4. Reduction of the number of guns to require an arsenal license: Right

now the proposed arsenal licenses, which Senator Feinstein should be

pushing for, require an "arsenal license" for those people who feel they

need more than 20 guns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition. We feel that this

number is too generous, due to the fact that any number of guns constitutes

a grave threat to the safety of the community. We suggest strongly that

this license limit be reduced to possession greater than five guns and 250

rounds of ammunition.

5. Arsenal license fees: It is not unreasonable to require a yearly fee

for an arsenal license to be at least $300, with a cap of $1000. The money

collected can be used to defray the immense medical costs directly

attributed to these deadly weapons.

6. Limits on arsenal licensing: No arsenal licensing to be permitted in

counties with populations of more than 200,000.

7 Requirement of federally approved storage safe of all guns: All

licensed gun owners should be required to have a storage safe that meets

minimum federally mandated requirements.

8. Inspection license: Each safe would be registered with a specific

serial number and the serial numbers and types of weapons stored should be

on file with federal and state authorities. Since unannounced inspections

can ensure that all declared weapons are being properly stored, all safe

licenses should have an additional yearly fee to offset the cost of these

spot inspections.



PUBLIC SAFETY REGULATIONS





9. Ban on manufacturing in counties with a population of more than 200,000.

10 Banning all military-style firearms.

11 Banning of any machine gun parts or parts that can be used in a

machine gun.

12 Banning the carrying of a firearm anywhere but home or target range or

in transit from one to the other.

13 Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale possession, transfer,

installation) except barrel/trigger group.

14 Elimination of the curio relic list: A gun is a gun. Even an old gun

can kill people. This is a loophole in federal law that has allowed

thousands of dangerous weapons to be distributed unchecked. This

regulation, if enacted, would automatically eliminated the need for a curio

or relic collector's license. All handguns, rifles and shotguns would fall

under the same category as their modern counterparts.

15 Control of ammunition belonging to certain surplus firearms.

16 Eventual ban of handgun possession: This may be closer to reality than

many of us think.

17 Banning of any ammo that fits military guns(post 1945): We suggest

following the lead of Mexico by prohibiting the sale, manufacture,

possession or transfer of any caliber fitting a military firearm in service

with a recognized military force after 1945.





AMMUNITION AND EXPLOSIVES





18 Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder that would

constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of ammunition.

19 Ban on possession of explosive powders of more than one kilogram at

any one time.

20 Banning of high-power ammo or wounding ammo: In addition to the

banning of military calibers, there is a plethora of dangerous rounds that

are too high-powered for sporting use. This includes the highest calibers

of pistol and rifle ammunition.

21 A national license for ammunition: This is an idea whose time has

come. We should look at a federal license of purchasing of ammunition of

all kinds. A special form should be forwarded to a new federal office to

track those who are purchasing too much ammunition.

22 Banning or strict licensing of all reloading components: Ammunition

regulation laws can be regularly passed by home loaders, creating an

underground cottage industry of ammo manufacture. Possession or purchase of

reloading materials and machines should be restricted and those who wish to

use specially loaded ammunition can go to a federally licensed "reloader".

23 National registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

24 Requirement of a special storage safe for ammunition and licensing:

Like the storage safe for guns, there should be a national requirement for

special safes to store ammo. Those safes should be tamperproof and

fireproof and be registered themselves so that on the spot inspections can

be held. Again, the costs for these inspections can be absorbed by the

license fees.



GUN RANGES



25 Restricting gun ranges to counties with populations of less than 200,000.

26 Special licensing of ranges: Those ranges that conform to the previous

requirement should get special licensing above and beyond that which is

required now. Additional, each existing or new shooting range must get in

writing the permissions of all property owners within a radius of seven

miles.

27 Special range tax to visitors: Additional revenue can be a surtax on

ranges, requiring the collection of a minimum of $85 per visit per person.

This can be in addition to required membership fees, upon which the state

and local governments get a sizable portion, to help defray the immense

cost of gun violence.

28 Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges: It has been suggested in

the past that felons can acquire pistols and other automatic weapons

without a background check by renting a gun on a target range. Deranged

individuals are basically being given a license to "practice hunting

humans" at these so-called "sporting rages." We think that a national

waiting period for gun rentals is yet another idea whose time has come.



No one I've ever seen posting on this forum even comes CLOSE to these lunatics IMHO. (Balance of that infamous leaked memo. is in the next post because it was too large to put in one post as per the maximum characters allowed per post here.)
 
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RDak

New member
Balance of infamous leaked memo.

ACTIVITIES THAT PROMOTE GUN VIOLENCE





29 Banning gun shows: Illegal transfers and the sales of assault weapons

and submachine guns are common event at these so called gun shows. A huge

dent can be made in the illegal trafficking of weapons by banning these

shows altogether.

30 Banning of military reenactments: The questionable "historical" value

of these events has escaped public scrutiny for too long. Many of these

so-called historical events are a mere excuse for gun nuts to blast the

countryside with automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live

bullets and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives

in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going on right

under our noses? We propose the prohibition of survivalist/paramilitary,

World War I and World War II and Civil War reenactments on federal land and

hope to encourage the states to prohibit them from state and county lands

as well.

31 Making unlawful the assembly of more than four armed individuals who

are not peace officers of military.

32 Begin to curb hunting on all public lands: Blood sports are an

anathema to a civilized society; however, it has been a political reality

that the hunters and their ilk have too strong of a stranglehold on

Congress. We feel that the impending defeat of high-tech assault "killing

machines" will open the door to other restrictions. With the diminishing

number of hunter, we feel that perhaps in five years we can open up much

more of our country to campers and hikers and eliminate the threat to

families out camping, by looking at much more restrictions as to what

parcels of land will allow hunting. This will not infringe on sportsmen's

right to hunt on private land.

33 Making gun owners records and photos a matter of public record.

34 Random police checks for weapons ( like sobriety check points) The

political climate can become right to initiate these random vehicle stop

and checks at all levels and in all types of neighborhoods. If we continue

to maintain the pressure, we can make this a reality.



This is what we are up against with anti-gunners IMHO. The memo speaks for itself.

This is what a person who favors police states desires IMHO. This is the basic philosophy of the Democratic leadership. They are extremist beyond belief IMHO. We 2nd Amendment proponents are FAR more even keel from what I've seen and read over the decades.

Did you notice the virulent hatred exhibited towards pro-gunners by these so-called pacifists? VERY SCARY.

It is clear, and has been for many years, that the Democratic leadership is for the total prohibition of private firearms ownership. Anyone who denies this has their head in the sand.

Finally, I seriously advise all of you to read this memo twice so it will properly "sink-in". And never forget it. This is the reality of the anti-gun movement IMHO.

So Beretta, you might want to rethink your opinion relative to some of us being "extremist". We don't even come close IMHO.
 
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RDak

New member
Oh wait, I forgot to post the 15 year plan portion of this memo.:


THE NEXT 15 YEARS

With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next 15 years?
Here are some ideas to consider for the long term:

.Banning of military accouterments
.Stricter guidelines for violence in television and the movies
.The total elimination of arms from society (emphasis added)
.Control of dangerous literature (bomb-making, machine gun conversions etc.)


The year 1994 sounds the death knell for the bully tactics of the NRA and
the culture of violence in America!
We are pressing on all fronts, and much of this can become reality sooner
than we expect. With the loss of power and clout of the NRA and their
various smaller crony organizations crumbling to dust, we can eliminate a
200-year old license to murder into history and enter the 21st century a
safer place for our children and our children's children.



My God, what is wrong with these people!! To think Hillary might be our next President.:(
 

BillCA

New member
Rdak - I saw that in 1995 and to my knowledge there has never been any positive confirmation that it was an actual HCI produced list. It's still scary though.

BerettaCougar
Saying "more guns = less crime" is saying you're willing to put all logic aside. Look at the state of Florida, one of the most gun populated states, and one of the highest gun crime states. So before you spew that junk to a fence swinger, think about what you're saying...change the item at hand. "More cars = less accidents"?

A look at Florida's demographics and the types of crimes is probably most educational. Florida has long been known as a drug-importing location and having a drug use problem. Gangs, tight-knit immigrant communities and economics play a huge role in the Florida crime picture.

But "More guns = Less crime" is true... to a point. The purpose of the catch-phrase was to emphasize that banning and curtailing gun ownership led to higher crime and loosening restrictions would, contrary to political opinion, actually reduce crime. The catch phrase really means "let citizens legally defend themselves against crime wherever it happens to them".
 
I think that memo used to much paper and these types of people are supposed to be enviornmentally friendly. I can make their memo fit on a 3x5 card. Watch this.


Handgund Contol Incorperated
Short and long range plan for firearms in America

Step 1: Burn the Constutution and install new and
improved fascist control over every thing.

Step 2: Abolish the military that will come to the aid
of their countrymen. Allow only armed fascist
LEO.

With the Congressional fascists help we can rule every
aspect of life in America.

What do you think of my paper saving, enviornmentally friendly, revised memo?
 

azredhawk44

Moderator
I think that memo used to much paper and these types of people are supposed to be enviornmentally friendly. I can make their memo fit on a 3x5 card. Watch this.


Handgund Contol Incorperated
Short and long range plan for firearms in America

Step 1: Burn the Constutution and install new and
improved fascist control over every thing.

Step 2: Abolish the military that will come to the aid
of their countrymen. Allow only armed fascist
LEO.

With the Congressional fascists help we can rule every
aspect of life in America.

I could fit that on a single-ply piece of toilet paper and actually put it to good use... Why insult a perfectly good index card? :barf:
 

azredhawk44

Moderator
So if you like your right to keep and bare arms, fight for it, actually fight for it. don't come on an internet forum and gripe and moan about it.

BerettaCougar:

So instead of freely assembling here on TFL and talking about a political element that bothers me, you want me to load up the battle rifle and start shooting politicos?

Or is your use of the word "fight" more in-line with the idea of political maneuvering?

Frankly, it sounds like you don't like either my first or second amendment rights.

As long as Rich & co. will welcome me here in their private living room, I'm free to speak my mind (within the rules of this forum).

To me, a right is a right. 51% of the people can't suddenly decide that they think my girlfriend is pretty and therefore have the democratically decided right to gang rape her. Rights are called "Rights" because they exist outside of the whims of the majority in power. They transcend popularity. They transcend convenience.
 

divemedic

New member
Saying "more guns= less crime" is not putting logic aside. Crime exists independent of guns. You can have crime without guns, and you can have guns without crime.

What having guns does is place me on an even footing with a person who could make me a crime victim. When a person who wishes to do me harm presents a weapon, I have no choice but to submit if I am unarmed. Armed, it becomes MY choice. I can give my money or fight. I can be raped, or fight.

That makes more guns= more freedom. Less guns=tyranny. Tyranny of the majority, tyranny of the strong over the weak, and death to the unarmed.
 
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