Explain the Optics Prejudice
- Thread starter Tallest
- Start date
You'll note that I said a first shot at running deer.
Never did I state, or even intend to imply that 12X, or even 9X, was a requirement. My intent in starting the thread was to know why so many seemed averted to using magnification at those levels.
Back in the day, people didn't drive over 35 mph. Should we stop going 70 mph on the interstate because it's "not needed?"
If a high magnification scope was so wonderful for fast close shots, the army would put them on all of their M-16 rifles.
One thing I learned about scopes when hunting small game with a .22 is that you have to be aware of the bullet drop that occurs when you are too close to the target. You can be closer than "point blank". Since the scope is about 1 1/2 inches above the bore, you have to aim above the squirrel's head if you want to make a head shot on a squirrel that's only about 10 ft away.
A lot of people have also shot their chronographs by forgetting that the bore is 1 1/2 inches below the scope.
One thing I learned about scopes when hunting small game with a .22 is that you have to be aware of the bullet drop that occurs when you are too close to the target. You can be closer than "point blank". Since the scope is about 1 1/2 inches above the bore, you have to aim above the squirrel's head if you want to make a head shot on a squirrel that's only about 10 ft away.
A lot of people have also shot their chronographs by forgetting that the bore is 1 1/2 inches below the scope.
That's a good point... in that context. But I would argue that being ill-equipped is different than being careless.
And in the context of deer/big game hunting, which seems to be where the spirit of the argument exists, the 1 1/2" to 2" of Optic LOS over bullet trajectory shouldn't ruin a shot made on the vitals region. It's definitely good to be aware when you're that close, but it certainly won't be a total miss like shooting squirrels or woodchucks in the head.
The biggest thing about those powerful scopes that concerns me is the propensity of far too many hunters to use their rifle scope as a spotting scope.
If you've ever looked through your binoculars or spotting scope and seen some jackass pointing his rifle directly at you, you'll know what I mean.
If you've ever looked through your binoculars or spotting scope and seen some jackass pointing his rifle directly at you, you'll know what I mean.
I disregard those that loudly proclaim that anything over 9X are for varmint or target only. (TOHeir)
Living, and hunting on east coast (MD,PA,WV,VA)most of my scopes are 4-12.
2 are Vortex 4-12X42 Crossfire II with BDC.
2 are Redfield Revenge 4-12X40 with Varmint Accuranger reticle. There are markings for 8",16",25". 8" for varmints, 16" for deer chest, 25" for standing coyote, or elk chest. Use zoom to bracket animal, gives you range to 600 yards. Go to 12 power, hold over on BDC and reap your rewards.
Wifes rifle is wearing a Vortex Crossfire II 6-18X44. It's on a Savage 110FP in 223.
My custom Mauser in 284 Win is wearing a Sightron S-TAC 4-20X50.
Most of my hunting is on a gas/power line with occassional fields. Shots range anywhere from 20ft to over 1,200 yards.
When i shot my doe last year at 413 yards, just as it was getting light, i was glad for the 12 power.
Living, and hunting on east coast (MD,PA,WV,VA)most of my scopes are 4-12.
2 are Vortex 4-12X42 Crossfire II with BDC.
2 are Redfield Revenge 4-12X40 with Varmint Accuranger reticle. There are markings for 8",16",25". 8" for varmints, 16" for deer chest, 25" for standing coyote, or elk chest. Use zoom to bracket animal, gives you range to 600 yards. Go to 12 power, hold over on BDC and reap your rewards.
Wifes rifle is wearing a Vortex Crossfire II 6-18X44. It's on a Savage 110FP in 223.
My custom Mauser in 284 Win is wearing a Sightron S-TAC 4-20X50.
Most of my hunting is on a gas/power line with occassional fields. Shots range anywhere from 20ft to over 1,200 yards.
When i shot my doe last year at 413 yards, just as it was getting light, i was glad for the 12 power.
STD 7
What are you shooting at that's 600-1200 yards away??
Most hunters that I know consider 300-400 the max range for an ethical shot at a living animal.
And 400 would assume an expert or master class rifleman using a solid rest.
That;s my other gripe about high powered scopes. They seem to encourage people to "play sniper" and take shots that they really shouldn't.'
What are you shooting at that's 600-1200 yards away??
Most hunters that I know consider 300-400 the max range for an ethical shot at a living animal.
And 400 would assume an expert or master class rifleman using a solid rest.
That;s my other gripe about high powered scopes. They seem to encourage people to "play sniper" and take shots that they really shouldn't.'
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Ben Dover said:
I've got a 5-25 on my deer rifle and I don't think I've ever attempted a shot over 100 yards with it. My longest shot ever on a deer was 175 yards, with a 4-12 Burris on an Encore Pro Hunter handgun.
If it was illegal to shoot a deer over 5x, I'd still want 25x for sighting purposes. I can't stand sighting in with low power.
Aim small, miss small.
Ben,
1) i'm not your average hunter that takes 3 shots the day before season, and after season puts the rifle away till next season.
2) i average about 1,000 rounds a year out of that particular rifle.
3) i regularly shoot to 500 yards with all my rifles.
4) i shoot when it's nice, when it's raining, when the wind is blowing 10mph gusting 30, when it's snowing, when it's 90 degrees with 73% humidity, when it's 20 degrees with 30% humidity. In other words i KNOW how myself and the rifle shoot. I KNOW where that bullet is going to land.
5) i spotted the group of deer at 550 yards, and managed to get closer. I had fashioned a solid rest, that i practice doing at the range.
6) With all my experience, i know when i can hit a target at a certain distance, and when it's an iffy shot and hence choose not to do it.
1) i'm not your average hunter that takes 3 shots the day before season, and after season puts the rifle away till next season.
2) i average about 1,000 rounds a year out of that particular rifle.
3) i regularly shoot to 500 yards with all my rifles.
4) i shoot when it's nice, when it's raining, when the wind is blowing 10mph gusting 30, when it's snowing, when it's 90 degrees with 73% humidity, when it's 20 degrees with 30% humidity. In other words i KNOW how myself and the rifle shoot. I KNOW where that bullet is going to land.
5) i spotted the group of deer at 550 yards, and managed to get closer. I had fashioned a solid rest, that i practice doing at the range.
6) With all my experience, i know when i can hit a target at a certain distance, and when it's an iffy shot and hence choose not to do it.
Std7.
You are apparently not one of the folks that I was referring to. You know your rifle and your personal limitations.
But in my 60+ years of hunting, I have seen many, far too many, people empty a magazine at an elk 800 yards or more away. The lucky ones missed completely. But far too many wounded the animal and allowed it to escape and suffer a long slow death in great pain.
I have lost many days of hunting time tracking wounded game that "Sammy Sniper" shot.
And I get really upset when I hear: "Heck, it wasn't much over 800 or 900 yards. That's an easy shot for my Remchester Belchfire magnum with the stargazer scope.
You are apparently not one of the folks that I was referring to. You know your rifle and your personal limitations.
But in my 60+ years of hunting, I have seen many, far too many, people empty a magazine at an elk 800 yards or more away. The lucky ones missed completely. But far too many wounded the animal and allowed it to escape and suffer a long slow death in great pain.
I have lost many days of hunting time tracking wounded game that "Sammy Sniper" shot.
And I get really upset when I hear: "Heck, it wasn't much over 800 or 900 yards. That's an easy shot for my Remchester Belchfire magnum with the stargazer scope.
on my two most used white tail rifles, a LH rem 700 in 7mm08 and a LH rem 700 in 308 I have 2.5x8 leupolds. my two longest shots so far were 280 yrds and 310 yrds prone with a harris bipod and the scopes were set of 8x, my closes shot was about 15 yrds taken at 2.5x on a standing deer in deep cover and I was able to thread the needle thru a 5" opening.
I used to wonder about this as well, before I stopped giving a rip about what the internet hunters said.
There are instances where magnification is more handy than necessary, I'll admit that. Why that makes it bad I have never understood. I run the heater in my truck in the winter, too.
Hunt with what makes you happy and what works for you.
There are instances where magnification is more handy than necessary, I'll admit that. Why that makes it bad I have never understood. I run the heater in my truck in the winter, too.
Hunt with what makes you happy and what works for you.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
"Hunt with what makes you happy and what works for you."
Thread winner!
Having read a few dozen such threads as this, what seems to be common is that too many people seem to perceive a NEED for far more magnification than is actually necessary. (I'm thinking mostly of the whitetail hunters.)
Thread winner!
Having read a few dozen such threads as this, what seems to be common is that too many people seem to perceive a NEED for far more magnification than is actually necessary. (I'm thinking mostly of the whitetail hunters.)
Art - It is certainly true that folks, whitetail hunters such as myself among them, sometimes use more magnification than is necessary. But all I’m after is an increased understanding of where the line is between necessary and unnecessary. I’m young and relatively inexperienced, so when something piques my curiosity or highlights a gap in my knowledge, I ask.
I’m more than happy to use what works for me. But it would be unwise to assume that my contented experience is the be-all end-all.
Also, I thank everyone for their input. I’ve enjoyed this thread and learned from it.
I’m more than happy to use what works for me. But it would be unwise to assume that my contented experience is the be-all end-all.
Also, I thank everyone for their input. I’ve enjoyed this thread and learned from it.