Drawing Your Firearm: Prudent Action?

[ScottRiqui]

Agreed - the threat of deadly force is a valid part of the "use of force" continuum, but if you're of the mindset that exposing/drawing your weapon is a commitment to shoot, then you've robbed yourself of that step in the continuum and are forcing yourself all the way to the end of the continuum (use of deadly force.)

After all, if the police can (and do) use the threat of deadly force as a tool to de-escalate or obtain compliance, why can't we?

 

[Edward429451]

if you are one who believes you should blindly pull the trigger whenever you dr

Now he clearly didn't say anything close to that in the other thread. Maybe most misunderstood his meaning. I didn't take his words as an absolute but rather as a mindset. Anything can happen in that loooong two seconds it takes to draw and if the threat ceases then the correct action is to stay the shot.

If we're not careful, some may set a bad precedent for themselves by learning to use drawing as a means to control situations that a gun is not called for. If you draw you better (be ready and willing to) shoot.

There's a slight fundamental difference of mindset. Who here has actually scuffled with someone while wearing a gun and never did draw? I have. I believe some would use a gun to avoid a scuffle knowing full well that its an intimidation thing and not being ready and willing to shoot him. I believe that is what he meant.

 

[Hook686]

Beacuse we are not LEO'ers.

Here in California I believe the use of deadly force is allowed if one is in immenent fear of deadly force, or serious injury. If a weapon is pulled and a person present feels threatened by that action, I think a call to police would result in brandishing charges.

If you see four gang-banger types approaching you, does that mean you draw, because they frighten you, so as to convince them they need change their course of travel ? Hmmmmm use of your gun to elicite a particular action by another ? This does not sound good to me.

If you actually are being attacked, where you have been shown that you are in fear of your life, or serious personal injury, do you really have the luxury of hesitating on drawing your gun ? That decision making process sequence can take 1 second easily. How far can an attacker approach in that 1 second ?

I do not support use of a gun to intimidate another, even if one is acting out in fear.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Opinions are wonderful.

How about this. There are about a million or so defensive gun usages in the country, according to research by criminologists.

About 95% have no shots fired.

So, that's that. The day was saved with no shots fired. One can post zombie, meth head, biker, gang attacks all you want but it seems that guns are displayed and deterrent effects predominate.

 

[Microgunner]

I'll do anything I can to prevent being shot/stabbed/run over and anything I can to prevent shooting someone else. Having my defensive firearm drawn and ready allows me to exercise these options. Anything less would be unfair to my family and community.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

There is a fine line between drawing your weapon in a self-defense situation and brandishing, espcially if there are witnesses around. An old training video used to make the statement that there are two blanks on a police report, essentially "victim/reportee" and "assailant/suspect." The video shows the lawful displaying of the weapon to ward off an attack, but the BG turns around and calls the police, reporting someone pulled a gun on him. Who do the cops believe? The gist of the story is if you draw, go ahead and report it to the police. Be the first one to get your name on the report and your story told. It may save you some grief.

 

[Microgunner]

There is a fine line between drawing your weapon in a self-defense situation and brandishing, espcially if there are witnesses around. An old training video used to make the statement that there are two blanks on a police report, essentially "victim/reportee" and "assailant/suspect." The video shows the lawful displaying of the weapon, but the BG turns around and calls the police, reporting someone pulled a gun on him. Who do the cops believe? The gist of the story is if you draw, go ahead and report it to the police. Be the first one to get your name on the report and your story told. It may save you some grief.

Not so in Florida. I pointed my pistol at a man, he called the police and after just a few minutes they asked me if I wanted to press charges against him. Man did he have a surprised look on his face. He believed the same as you. BTW, I never called the police. I just waited for their arrival.

 

[threegun]

If it is so bad that I have to draw, then the next thing is a shot and then more shots. I don't think you draw until there is no other option but shooting. Keep in mind, anyone can be disarmed if they hesitate.

So was I justified??? I was playing basketball with my brother in law when a large (10-15 guys) group of ghetto youth walked over to start trouble. As they approached they made it clear in an very unfriendly way that we were not welcome to play there. As they continued to close the distance I pulled my pistol and held it at my side and made a peaceful exit. Had I waited until they began beating us to a pulp I would have been forced to shoot that is if I was even able to shoot at this point.

I wasn't justified, at the time I pulled my gun, to fire. I believe however that I could articulate in court why I was in fear for my life. I am just as justified in preparing to defend my with a firearm as I am in actually defending myself if I am in fear of death or great bodily injury.

BTW just because you have skinned leather doesn't mean you must point it or even display it.

 

[ranburr]

The OP is quite correct. The statement that if you draw, you must shoot is just another one of those gun/internet world cliches we get from folks who posture and chest thump. Sorry to be so blunt.

Sorry, I haven't chest thumped or postured in a number of yrs. I just don't believe anyone should know that you have a gun until they have been shot. I don't think you should draw until it is obvious you have no other choice. And, as I said before, anyone can be disarmed if you are standing there trying to hold someone at gunpoint or scare them off (a number of people have zero fear of guns).

 

[Microgunner]

(a number of people have zero fear of guns)

No one I've ever met. That must be a rare bird indeed.

 

[threegun]

Sorry, I haven't chest thumped or postured in a number of yrs. I just don't believe anyone should know that you have a gun until they have been shot. I don't think you should draw until it is obvious you have no other choice. And, as I said before, anyone can be disarmed if you are standing there trying to hold someone at gunpoint or scare them off (a number of people have zero fear of guns).

If you were right Ranburr (and you are not) then I would have shot some teen aged kids and or died trying to. Had they continued to advance faster than I could retreat they would have been shot. Display saved the day for them and me.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Not so in Florida.

One incident that worked out well for you. Not a blanket ending for every incident. I'm sure there was something that made the LEO believe you over the other guy. Totally up to the individual whether or not to report it.

 

[pax]

Florida, like most states, has a "necessary self defense" exception to the no-brandishing rule. Contrary to internet public opinion, you don't have to shoot someone just because you drew a firearm. You must, however, be prepared to articulate how your use of force was justified under the circumstances--and prepared to defend it in court, if it goes that far. TANSTAAFL!

pax

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I believe the use of deadly force is allowed if one is in immenent fear of deadly force, or serious injury....

And one may be in such a situation, but upon drawing his gun, the situation can immediately change so he is no longer in reasonable fear of an immediate, potentially lethal attack. And if the situation thus changes, he must not shoot.

So your back is to the wall and someone is advancing towards you in a menacing fashion with a knife in his hand. You draw your gun, and he immediately drops his knife, turns and runs away. Are you going to shoot him? Drawing your gun was justified, shooting the assailant when he breaks off the threat is not.

And BTW, if you do draw your gun, and the assailant splits, call it in and make a reports immediately. Usually the first guy to report is, at least initially, perceived as the victim. That's how you want to be perceived.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

I'm glad you chimed in, pax. Reading the post in that thread started by threegun had be think about what you said in your book. That was a motivating factor in starting this up and revisit the subject.

Sorry, I haven't chest thumped or postured in a number of yrs. I just don't believe anyone should know that you have a gun until they have been shot. I don't think you should draw until it is obvious you have no other choice. And, as I said before, anyone can be disarmed if you are standing there trying to hold someone at gunpoint or scare them off (a number of people have zero fear of guns).

To be clear where I'm thinking:
1. I don't think you're chest-thumping because you're one of the few here that disagrees. You presented your opinion with a thoughtful response and I see nothing wrong in doing so.
2. You say you shouldn't draw until you have "no other choice". Are you saying you have no other choice but to stop or be killed or succum to grave injury? If so, I must present some potentially loaded questions. Do you believe one of the best ways to prevent being caught in a compromising position is to avoid being there to begin? Do you believe drawing your firearm to low-ready is the same as brandishing a firearm? Do you believe drawing a firearm to low-ready the moment before your life is in imminent danger is not a sound tactic if the possibility of losing it to the would-be attacker is low?

My point is there are many times drawing a firearm to low-ready (NOT aiming at the possible would-be attacker) is useful to DETER a situation when properly executed. Are you still saying you should NEVER draw your gun unless you are 100% certain it will be fired?

 

[old bear]

It may not always be prudent, yet I was taught, 50+ years ago, you never pointed a weapon at someone you were not prepared to shoot, and you never shot anyone you were not prepared to kill.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I was taught,...you never pointed a weapon at someone you were not prepared to shoot...

Being prepared to shoot is one thing. Actually shooting, if the situation has changed, is another.

 

[old bear]

Being prepared to shoot is one thing. Actually shooting, if the situation has changed, is another.

You are 100% correct

 

[pax]

Being prepared to shoot is one thing. Actually shooting, if the situation has changed, is another.

And that's a really good point, that a lot of people in this thread have stated in different ways. This might even be a case of vigorous and vehement agreement, for the most part!

Legally speaking, I suspect a person's a lot more likely to get into trouble by shooting too late (eg, after the bad guy has thrown down his firearm, or fainted unconscious, or started to run away) than by drawing too early (eg, brandishing). But I'm not a lawyer -- you are. What's your experience on that? Is my impression generally correct?

pax

 

[threegun]

I think this notion of drawing equals a must shoot is a morf of the passionate drilling done by instructor for decades that you better be prepared to shoot if you pull. Some of the students I teach say the same thing.