Do Rampage response training videos teach rampagers how to do it?

[Double Naught Spy]

You want guarantees? Go to a graveyard, only guaranteed thing in life.

Even that is wrong, LOL. Lots of people never make it to graveyards.

Clyde, why are you drawing information from two different fiction writers? I appreciate the FBI dropping some of Douglas' work, but I am certain they have not replaced it with Ressler's fictional works, or Hunter's, LOL.

Interesting definition for serial killer that you provided. It would not fit numerous serial killers who manage to use a variety of methods/weapons to kill their victims such as Ted Bundy and Ángel Maturino Reséndiz.

 

[ChileVerde1]

LEO Training for Active Shooter

Not sure if this was mentioned but there is a nationwide push by all LEO's to have a standardized training for "active shooter" response. I'm a trainer for the US Border Patrol. This enables officers and agents from different agencies that happen to be both on scene and armed at an active shooter situation to be able to form up as an impromptu tactical team and agressively go after the subject or subjects. We are no longer trained to wait on SWAT. I can't go into specifics because of the sensitive nature of the training but it covers and standardizes basic CQB formations, etc... for officers so they can basically show up on scene and automatically function as a tactical team and clear rooms, use bounding cover, etc...

I advise armed civilians, who I support fully, to use caution around these situations and to avoid involvement if possible so as not to get confused for a threat and shot. We get paid to do this. Obviously if your life is in imminent danger or its expedient to use deadly force to stop a rampage shoot away, but please don't go room clearing because it's an already confusing enough situation for us without armed friendlies running around that may be accidentaly shot.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Good advice - I heard a police presenter on active shooters who said that if an armed citizen starts moving around, he or she probably will get shot.

An LEO here told me that he knows of a guy who was running to a mall where there was a shooting with his gun out to save his wife. He came within a hair's breath of being shot.

How can LEOs know who is a good guy? Some rampage shooters from the professional classes come to the scene dressed professionally and open up. Some can be professionals who work there. Look at Amy Bishop - if the police arrive and she didn't give up, the campus cops might know her as a professor. Is she an armed good person professor or a killer?

 

[Ike666]

I was the police psychologist for the state police at Tech. I arrived on-scene about 45 minutes after the last shot was fired. I then worked the investigation for the next 32 days straight.

I can tell you unequivocally that Seung Hui Cho invested in quite a bit of planning. Among other things, he spent quite a bit of time at the range (National Forest Range outside of Blacksburg). He was observed there by a number of individuals practicing multiple target engagements and tactical reloads. Several of the people we interviewed commented that they thought he was an IDPA/USPSA shooter.

Survivors from Norris described him moving calmly from classroom to classroom; several described "rapid magazine changes", "he knew where his bullets were, kept reloading" and so forth.

He not only chained the doors but left a stick note on the door that there was a bomb and if anyone tried to remove the chain it would detonate.

He dumped his hard drive (never recovered) so we don't know what his sources were. But he planned and he practiced his plan for at least 3 months prior to acting.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thanks for that note. We appreciate it.

Glenn

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Was George Hennard's attack sophisticated? He had a plan, executed it well, was calm as he walked around and shot people, effected quick magazine changes and was well enough prepared to stop those who attempted to rush him with gunfire. No doubt he knew where his bullets were as well.

 

[zombietactics]

I suppose another part of the question regards "how likely is a rampager a planner or possessed of some degree of sophistication?"

I researched the IHOP shooting, for instance, ... interviewed witnesses, took my own measurements ... not at all a planned attack, and absent anything which could be called "training". That also seems to be the case with the attack against Congresswoman Giffords.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Our local forces are taking into account rampage shooters with planned attacks in their response plans.

One problem is that it is pretty clear nothing saves the first 20 to 30 victims unless we allow carry in such locales and the legal carrier having some training is to better.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

What would be a guarantee?

At the least, each of the above passed a criminal background check.

True, but wouldn't the majority of jihadists pass one as well?

It scares me everyday to think about what we might be in store for over the next few years on that subject.

 

[MLeake]

Stevie-Ray, the thing about that is, what do you propose to do about it?

Most of us agree that RKBA should apply to the individual; that being the case, most of us should also agree that rights come with risks attached.

However, there is no right to training with any particular instructor, and I personally think it's a good idea for instructors to have at least a basic, good-faith screen in place for some subjects.

DHS now requires extra procedures be followed prior to providing flight training to a foreign national; I'm not sure such procedures would be practical to apply to firearms training.

However, even those procedures put in place would not prevent flight training being given to a US citizen would-be jihadist. The home-grown types are going to be a bigger problem, down the road.

But again, how do we counter that without giving up larger freedoms?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

But again, how do we counter that without giving up larger freedoms?

We don't and that's why I say it scares me. A jihadist is a whole nother kind of nutcase pretty much in a class by themselves. Certainly can't prepare for them without profiling, the absence of which is likely going to be re-addressed.