Microgunner
New member
hartcreek, the OP included the. 22WMR in his listing, the center fire 22TCM way outclasses the 22WMR in velocity and energy.
Do Dinosaurs still roam the earth?
- Thread starter 44 AMP
- Start date
I'll take this one..Magnum Wheel chime in if I get something wrong about yours..
The original Auto Mag Pistol (note: two words, not one), is recoil operated. In uses a multiple lug bolt (usually compared to the M16 bolt - because people know what that looks like).
The bolt is cammed by a pin near the rear of the action, and assisted by a torsion spring inside the cocking piece.
Bolt and barrel assembly, locked together, recoil straight back about a half inch (0.47" on the gun I just checked. At this point, the barrel stops, the bolt is unlocked, and is struck by the accelerator, giving it an additional rearward thrust. It considered to be a short recoil action.
Auto Mag II (.22WMR) is a retarded blowback action. (if that's not PC its a delayed blowback action..
)Auto Mags III, IV, and V are variations of the Browning Tilt barrel lockup system.
The LAR Grizzly and the Coonan are the same, tilt barrel lockup.
The Desert Eagle is gas operated. Fixed barrel. Multiple lug rotating bolt. Gas port is right ahead of the chamber. Gas runs in a channel in the barrel assy, underneath the bore, almost to the muzzle, where it turns 180 and pushes the piston to operate the slide.
The Wildey is gas operated, using a different approach. Gas is ported from the barrel a bit ahead of the chamber, and then directed to the underbarrel piston through the (hand adjustable) nut.
The AMT Lightning was used to make the "Baby Auto Mag" they sold after the Sudden Impact movie. Take an AMT copy of a Ruger .22, give it a vent rib and change the bolt ears to one that are exact copies (scaled down) of the distinctive cocking piece ears of the Auto Mag, and there you go! .22lr "baby auto mag" $500 please! I thought it was too much then. Considering the stupidly high asking price for them today, probably should have got one...
As to what the magnum autos are, I did allow the .22WMR, so if the cartridge name says Magnum, or the gun name says magnum, I'll allow it. I allow the .30 carbine (Automag III).
Micro Mag? Better explain that one...
Microgunner
New member
44 AMP said:
I'll see if I can get Fred Craig to give you a call.
For those with spare cash collecting dust, it may be worth noting that GoneBroker currently has two different .50AE Automag V pistols for sale and also has two different auctions for extra .50AE magazines.
Perhaps also worth noting is that one seller is offering bare, stripped Automag IV .45 Win Mag frames for $50 each and he has a number of them.
Perhaps also worth noting is that one seller is offering bare, stripped Automag IV .45 Win Mag frames for $50 each and he has a number of them.
The posted target reminded me of something that had slipped my mind, and that is the accuracy of the Auto Mag. Generally its very good. Like pre-internet bolt action rifle good.
I was never a world class shot, but I have gotten 5 shot 1in groups at 25yds with the my .44 Auto Mag (not often but I have done it).
I can manage a 2-2.5" group with a good target sighted 1911A1 (overlapping holes) so something that can do half that is kind of impressive. And something that can do that with .44Mag power is very impressive.
Not all guns and loads are that good, of course, but the fact that the Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey barrels remain in the same plane as the sights all the time, seems to give them an edge over tilt barrel systems. Generally...or so I think.
Heard from a friend today, he's found a fellow with an Automag IV .45Winmag. Looks like we are going to get together sometime in the next 2-3 weeks (hopefully) for a shoot and compare session. I'm looking forward to getting some hands on experience with that gun. Will do up a range report (hopefully with a pic or 2).
I was never a world class shot, but I have gotten 5 shot 1in groups at 25yds with the my .44 Auto Mag (not often but I have done it
).I can manage a 2-2.5" group with a good target sighted 1911A1 (overlapping holes) so something that can do half that is kind of impressive. And something that can do that with .44Mag power is very impressive.
Not all guns and loads are that good, of course, but the fact that the Auto Mag, Desert Eagle, and Wildey barrels remain in the same plane as the sights all the time, seems to give them an edge over tilt barrel systems. Generally...or so I think.
Heard from a friend today, he's found a fellow with an Automag IV .45Winmag. Looks like we are going to get together sometime in the next 2-3 weeks (hopefully) for a shoot and compare session. I'm looking forward to getting some hands on experience with that gun. Will do up a range report (hopefully with a pic or 2).
Magnum Wheel Man
New member
didn't want to rip off this picture, so I'll show a link... never seen one before, but here is a picture & discussion of the 44 Magmatic...
http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/10020/44-magmatic
BTW... BONGO... those are B Square slide pull knobs... & they help greatly, because of the stiff springs & sharp slide serrations
http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/10020/44-magmatic
BTW... BONGO... those are B Square slide pull knobs... & they help greatly, because of the stiff springs & sharp slide serrations
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ah, yes, the Magnamatic. That one had slipped my mind, until you brought it up. Nice pic, had never seen that particular picture before.
I remember a short article on it that G&A magazine did back in the later 70s. Details are fuzzy in my memory, but I remember a few points, pretty clearly.
Gas operated, used the standard .44 Mag revolver round. Quick change, interchangeable barrels. Looked a lot like an overgrown Colt Woodsman or a High Standard.
The inventor had built 6 prototypes (which reportedly worked very well), and was looking for someone to turn it into a production gun.
Never heard another thing about it, other than the rumor that, finding no takers in the US, the inventor went overseas looking for backers.
I have a wild guess (no proof, no hints even, just speculation) that the inventor found interested people in Israel. I think they turned the Magnamatic into the Desert Eagle.
Would love to hear from anyone who can shed some more light on this.
I remember a short article on it that G&A magazine did back in the later 70s. Details are fuzzy in my memory, but I remember a few points, pretty clearly.
Gas operated, used the standard .44 Mag revolver round. Quick change, interchangeable barrels. Looked a lot like an overgrown Colt Woodsman or a High Standard.
The inventor had built 6 prototypes (which reportedly worked very well), and was looking for someone to turn it into a production gun.
Never heard another thing about it, other than the rumor that, finding no takers in the US, the inventor went overseas looking for backers.
I have a wild guess (no proof, no hints even, just speculation) that the inventor found interested people in Israel. I think they turned the Magnamatic into the Desert Eagle.
Would love to hear from anyone who can shed some more light on this.
Very nice, and I love the name--so 50's to me. Folks down at the range..they be thinkin you're settin up to shoot a Ruger .22 or something, then you touch off a round or two from your 44 Magmatic and sets 'em straight. That's definitely not one I've ever see nor heard of...glad you posted the link.
I don't see any real clear sign it's gas-operated--is the gas routed through that little mini underlug we see at the rear of the barrel? Clearly there's nothing forward of that. I'd think the first design change required would be to get that gas port about as far forward on the barrel as possible (to reduce serious flame erosion at the port, etc).
Your speculative story sounds completely plausible...the prototype Magnamatic demonstrating that gas operated and rotary locking was a workable solution to a positive lock AND a rigid barrel-to-frame interface. Both attractive features to put together, I'd imagine, when moving up to a large-mass barrel and a high pressure round.
I don't see any real clear sign it's gas-operated--is the gas routed through that little mini underlug we see at the rear of the barrel? Clearly there's nothing forward of that. I'd think the first design change required would be to get that gas port about as far forward on the barrel as possible (to reduce serious flame erosion at the port, etc).
Your speculative story sounds completely plausible...the prototype Magnamatic demonstrating that gas operated and rotary locking was a workable solution to a positive lock AND a rigid barrel-to-frame interface. Both attractive features to put together, I'd imagine, when moving up to a large-mass barrel and a high pressure round.
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nstoolman1
New member
I got the 6" barrel so it would match my Python.
I believe that little "lug" under the barrel is the gas port. Moving further forward seems to make better sense, BUT neither the Desert Eagle nor the Wildey did that, so I wonder if its is actually a serious concern.
The DE taps gas off the barrel right in front of the chamber, but the gas piston is almost at the muzzle. The Wildey taps off very near the same place, or just a little further down the barrel, and the piston is very close to that spot.
You're welcome! ah..which detailed explanation?..
seriously, that's why I love this forum as well. We have bona fide experts in some things and a number of highly experienced folks in different areas. All here and sharing because they want to be.
I'm taking some measurements from actual guns, where possible, and from published data, where I can find it. I have a ways to go before its done, but here's a few data points about some of my "dinosaurs" (although lately I'm thinking maybe I should have called mine the "Big 5", as they were the result of a long safari...)
.44 Auto Mag 6.5" barrel
57oz.
Desert Eagle 6" (mk I)
4.25 lbs (68oz)
S&W M29 6.5"
47oz
Colt Govt Model 5"
40oz
(published data, I should have access to a suitable scale for actual weights soon)
more to follow...for comparison with each other, and a few "regular" pistols.
bbqncigars
New member
My first centerfire was a Ruger SBH that I bought very lightly used (fired twice, dropped once) back in the early seventies. It has an original Ruger brass grip frame. The verb FLINCH would define my first shots with it. This was when 'Dirty Harry' was just hitting the cinemas, and some shooters believed that you were risking serious wrist injury shooting a .44 mag. Couple this with some very stout Browning ammo, and you have instant flinch. This was cured by mixing identical dummies with live rounds (humiliation is a powerful motivator for a teenager).
I always lusted after an Auto Mag, as I thought they were the coolest looking pistols ever (still do). The original AMP has undocumented mutational side effects. Many people pick one up and find they are suddenly eight feet tall and completely covered with hair. The only things wrong with an original AMP is part$ availability, and they hate being shot by a limp-wristed newbie.
I always lusted after an Auto Mag, as I thought they were the coolest looking pistols ever (still do). The original AMP has undocumented mutational side effects. Many people pick one up and find they are suddenly eight feet tall and completely covered with hair.
The only things wrong with an original AMP is part$ availability, and they hate being shot by a limp-wristed newbie.These days, I only shave enough to see...and I've always been this tall!
There are, sadly a number of things "wrong" with the original Auto Mag design. And by "wrong" I mean things that if they had been done differently would have been more durable, and perhaps, reliable.
The Auto Mag does need something to recoil against. Doesn't like if it is can't. "Limp wristers" need not apply.
Always thought the Auto Mag was one of the best looking pistols ever. Trouble is, once I got one, and really started learning about them, they aren't one of the best working pistols ever.
Cutting edge (for the day) metallurgy and technology. Radical new design. Radical new cartridge (no, its NOT just a rimless .44 Mag). AND, sadly some less than the best management and production decisions. ALL these, combined with a niche market that was much smaller than it is today.
It never stayed in production long enough to get the bugs worked out, let alone figure out improvements that would enhance its function and durability.
I have no idea how many Auto Mags were made, in total. One source I found estimated a bit over 5,000, another said about double that. None I have found ever claimed more than that, and only one said 10K. So even taking the higher number, that's not a lot.
Even though in (and out of) production at different times, by different companies, I think considering it an "experimental" design is valid.
Well 'duh'...you must certainly own half of them, so just do an inventory and double the number.
Once again you surprised with this one. But then I realized I was concluding gas erosion at the gas port would be very similar to gas erosion ('flame cutting') in a revolver--and there's a big difference I didn't think of. That difference is the fact that in a revolver you have wide-open-throttle gas flow, and in a piston gas system, at least, you really don't. So, extreme high temperature high pressure gas that is virtually static shouldn't, to my mind, have remotely as much opportunity for cutting as the open blow-torch that is the revolver cylinder-cone gap. I'm not saying there is NO flow--obviously the gas system comes up to operating pressure from ambient pressure on every cycle--but I'm suggesting there's an enormous difference. What erosion almost certainly does take place right at the port is a big 'so what'.
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