Dead end handgun designs.

[totaldla]

. However, if one is carrying seriously, one prioritizes for the unlikely, albeit very high stakes, event, as is appropriate for all emergency planning. .

Just a minute..
That is an unrealistic mindset, i.e. not supported by the data. And it has little to do with why gun designs die.
The S&W329pd has fallen out of favor because a younger generation of hunters believes that 15 rounds of 10mm from a heavier autoloader trumps a lighter package of 6 rounds of 44mag from a revolver.

 

[44 AMP]

The S&W329pd has fallen out of favor because a younger generation of hunters believes that 15 rounds of 10mm from a heavier autoloader trumps a lighter package of 6 rounds of 44mag from a revolver.

And, some of us older generation never had the small light .44 Magnum in favor to begin with.

I, for one, never had any inclination to get a light weight .44 Mag, personally, I don't want a .44 Mag lighter than a 6" S&W M29 (other than my Contender, which is in a different category to me.)

The very idea of a short barrel light weight .44 Mag is a "dead end design" to me.

and I'm also the odd one out when it comes to carry guns, I WANT some heft to them. Nothing plastic for me, thanks. I'll put up with the weight of steel, thank you. And not just for the weight helping tame recoil but also for that one in a million (or more rare) instance where every possible thing goes wrong and your handgun becomes an impact weapon.

 

[stinkeypete]

1. Break-top revolver designs. While it seems like a good idea, they just get wobbly over time while a solid frame keeps on ticking 100 years later.

2. The S&W329PD would be a fine design if chambered in .44 Special.
In .44 Magnum it's like getting your hand smacked with a 2x4 every shot. Even loaded down, it's a handful. We're not shooting grizzlies and if we are, get a nice heavy steel frame and thank me every shot.

More velocity is not always the answer, while I believe starting with a bigger hole nearly always is.

 

[RoyceP]

The Browning 1910 / 1922 pistols come to mind. No one reproduced them after Browning quit making them which I think is a shame.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, another one, and this one is quite the shame...

The Browning BDM.

The design was quite innovative and the grip, for a double-stack magazine, was incredibly thin and comfortable.

I wouldn't at all mind picking up a BDM or the DAO variant.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Browning 1910 / 1922 pistols come to mind. No one reproduced them after Browning quit making them which I think is a shame.

There was an outfit in Texas that made them for a while.
The company whose main firearm product is the Browning .25 showed the 1910 for a while but no longer, appears they did not get them in production.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

gyrojet....lol. what a crazy idea.

 

[ballardw]

gyrojet....lol. what a crazy idea.

Suspect the Space Force might be re-evaluating for consideration in zero-G.

 

[Trevor]

A dead end design would be delayed gas blowback pistols such as the HK P7 and the Steyr GB. I owned a sample of each in the 1980s and found them quick to foul and stop working. They also heated up too much.

A model that is based on a tried and true technology, a striker fired pistol with a removable fire control unit, that was a poor seller is the Beretta APX. It lasted about six years in the Beretta catalog and has now been discontinued.

An A1 version has been released, but it is one SKU, while the previous version had about thirty-five SKU numbers. It seems Beretta is waiting to see how the new version sells and whether it earns more variations on the theme.

I doubt it will. There is nothing wrong with the APX, but cheaper striker fired pistols made in Turkey are making it tough to compete successfully.

As for the idea that the traditional double action pistol ought to be a dead end, well, it is not, and Beretta has a good hold on this market. It ought to bring back to American market the model 84--gone but not forgotten.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"A dead end design would be delayed gas blowback pistols such as the HK P7 and the Steyr GB."

Except that that design is, once again, back in production in the form of the Walther CCP.

I have both a P7 PSP and a CCP.

Yes, the area over the trigger where the gas piston is gets downright hot and could use a heat shield (like is on the later American versions of the P7, the M8 and M13), but I've fired hundreds of rounds through each gun with out cleaning and the system has never once stopped working because of fouling.

What I find to be unlikely is that a gun so designed would simply stop working because of fouling. If anything, it would, as the gas port and piston fouled, become more and more a straight blowback, which would NOT be a good thing at all. Big reason to NEVER shoot lead bullets out of them.

 

[Jim Watson]

I had a P7, early version with heel catch, and I did not have enough magazines to dump and get it too hot for comfort. Or the inclination to do so. It would get me through an IPSC stage and that is all I asked of it.

I traded it away because of the squeeze grip operating system, too different to alternate with conventional guns. If I had wanted to shoot it all the time, that would not have been a problem, but I didn't want to retire my other pistols.

 

[Trevor]

I disliked the GB and P7 so much that I forget the gas-delayed blowback system has re-appeared in the Walther CCP. Walther's website lists the M2 version as current. It looks like a good carry pistol.

 

[Mike Irwin]

I absolutely ADORE the P7s. They're weird, they're funky, and by god I can shoot those things.

The ones with the magazine catch on the heel are the PSPs. They also didn't have the later heat shield above the trigger.

I've carried mine on and off over the years.

I never spent much trigger time with the Steyr GB, but I always felt that it was a gun I could have really grown to like.

My Walther CCP? I've never had a handgun fit my hand that well. It's as if it were made for me and me alone.

Unfortunately the first time I took it to the range it had a critical malfunction that required it going back to Walther. It came back fixed, and I was putting it through its paces to make sure I could trust it when COVID hit.

I've carried revolvers primarily, but really do see the potential for the CCP becoming my primary CCW.

 

[stuckinthe60s]

1940 iver johnson trigger cock revolver. you pulled the trigger to cock and advance the wheel....then pulled it again to fire. saw only one in 40 years of collecting and gun showing. and like an idiot, i passed on it.

 

[rock185]

As regards the HK P7 line of pistols, I think at some point the P7s just could not compete with less expensive pistols in the World market. So a dead end design? Well maybe, just due to cost to manufacture the P7 line, as compared to later, less expensive to manufacture, pistol designs.

FWIW, I had a P7, then bought a new P7M8 back in the '80s. Still have the P7M8, and have never experienced an instance of gas fouling compromising functional reliability of either pistol.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Oh without a doubt. The P7s were crazy complicated, crazy over-engineered, and crazy expensive.

In case you never heard of it, HK also made the squeeze cocker in .40 S&W, the P7M10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r49h0iBO9g

I had some trigger time with one and I didn't really like it. It was way too big for my hand.

HK also made some prototype P7s in .45 ACP. I got to hold one, but never got to shoot one.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I have read that a rotating barrel gets beat extremely bad if not done right.

Walther CCP is a gas delayed blowback...but I don't think many liked the CCP for other reasons.


The on I thought really interesting was the R9 for being small and the now Bond gun that loads by grabbing the cartridge backwards.

 

[Red Devil]

Revolvers - with few centerfire exceptions, maximum capacity of 7 rounds. Dead end.

In Reality - where the odds of getting into a citizen involved armed confrontation, and firing more than six(6) rounds to stop the threat, is only ~ 40% greater than ending up a Highway Fatality that same year?

Revolvers - are here to stay.




Red

 

[Carmady]

Here's another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxdPbG2PXu4

 

[micromontenegro]

The COP comes to mind