DA Revolver vs. 1911A1 Reliability
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I wince because as soon as I press "post,' I'm going to have to hide. But here goes:
I think this is a pointless discussion. Putting aside design and manufacturing defect, all handguns can "fail.". Most of the time, the probability of failure will be dominated by the diligence of the owner or operator with respect to inspection, cleaning and routine maintenance of his handgun. And, in my opinion, this is equally true of revolvers and auto pistols.
I could add a couple of observations. In my experience, most of the stoppages of revolvers take longer to clear and require skills and tools of a higher level than some auto failures. But I regard this observation to be irrelevant, since proper maintenance should drastically reduce to probability of failure in the first place.
In theory, hammer fired handguns, whether revolver or pistol, should be more susceptible of environmental stoppages, because of the potential for debris to occupy the lane through which the hammer must fall for the weapon to fire. Tests (done by others than me) have illustrated such failures repeatedly. This implies that a striker-fired pistol should be more immune to environmental stoppages, but the same tests have revealed the propensity of striker-fired pistols to succumb, either through hydrolock or slide rail impedance.
I could go on, but the bottom line is this: take proper care of your weapon and it will fire on demand. Revolver or pistol.
I think this is a pointless discussion. Putting aside design and manufacturing defect, all handguns can "fail.". Most of the time, the probability of failure will be dominated by the diligence of the owner or operator with respect to inspection, cleaning and routine maintenance of his handgun. And, in my opinion, this is equally true of revolvers and auto pistols.
I could add a couple of observations. In my experience, most of the stoppages of revolvers take longer to clear and require skills and tools of a higher level than some auto failures. But I regard this observation to be irrelevant, since proper maintenance should drastically reduce to probability of failure in the first place.
In theory, hammer fired handguns, whether revolver or pistol, should be more susceptible of environmental stoppages, because of the potential for debris to occupy the lane through which the hammer must fall for the weapon to fire. Tests (done by others than me) have illustrated such failures repeatedly. This implies that a striker-fired pistol should be more immune to environmental stoppages, but the same tests have revealed the propensity of striker-fired pistols to succumb, either through hydrolock or slide rail impedance.
I could go on, but the bottom line is this: take proper care of your weapon and it will fire on demand. Revolver or pistol.
Though there may be a small difference in the number of moving parts, I don't find that to be a significant factor in reliability of the handguns. I shoot the 1911 and revolvers (single and double action) a similar amount. I occasionally experience stoppages with all of them, though I seem to have somewhat fewer with single action revolvers.
DA revolver cylinders occasionally bind due to debris, and extraction of multiple cases at the same time can be difficult as well, especially if debris or unburned powder granules are present. Split cases can also make extraction difficult.
FTF or FTEs occur on the 1911 occasionally. Debris and powder granules don't seem to affect the 1911 much. Split cases seem to eject in most instances. And the FTFs and FTEs are often quickly overcome or cleared.
I really enjoy revolvers, but I'll take a 1911 over a DA revolver if daily carry (especially open carry) in a dirty environment are SOP.
DA revolver cylinders occasionally bind due to debris, and extraction of multiple cases at the same time can be difficult as well, especially if debris or unburned powder granules are present. Split cases can also make extraction difficult.
FTF or FTEs occur on the 1911 occasionally. Debris and powder granules don't seem to affect the 1911 much. Split cases seem to eject in most instances. And the FTFs and FTEs are often quickly overcome or cleared.
I really enjoy revolvers, but I'll take a 1911 over a DA revolver if daily carry (especially open carry) in a dirty environment are SOP.
I've never had an ejector break on a revolver. Never had the bottom fall out of a magazine on a revolver (3 times with semis). Never had a double feed with a revolver. Never had a jam with a factory load with a revolver. Never had a revolver throw the empty in my face. Nope, folks, the revolver is more reliable than the semi. I do have a couple semis that haven't malfunctioned so far but they will. It's nature of the beast.
Ive never had an ejector break either, but I have had a couple back out and tie the gun up.
Found out what crap under the extractor star can do too.
Never had the bottom fall out of a mag, and I shoot a lot more auto than I do revolver.
I have had a cylinder drop to the ground with a revolver during a reload though.
Ive also had moonclips cause issues with a couple of revolvers too.
Ive had cases hang up in the cylinder and wouldnt extract until beat out of the gun with a chunk of wood. Couldnt do it by hand.
Ive had empties in the face with a number of different autos, and Ive had revolvers spit lead on me. Think I prefer the brass.
Ive also had rounds jump their crimp with revolver rounds that moved forward under recoil and totally tied the gun up as the cylinder turned.
Ive also had squibs drive a bullet just into the forcing cone and it too locked the gun up tight.
If you shoot them long enough, sooner or later, youre going to find that revolvers can be a real bitch when things go south, and are usually DRT when they do.
Over the years, I got to expereince a lot, if not most of the problems that occur with them, and you live and learn.
Ejector rod threads and cylinder lock screws (and a few other things) get Loctite.
You always dump your empties, "muzzle up", and make sure that is spotless under the star when you clean. You also make sure the front face of the cylinder, and face of the barrel is clean.
You also make sure the chambers in the cylinder are spotless.
If you reload, you make sure you have a good crimp. The bullet backing out is one issue there, and bad crimps seem to be an issue with squibs, or at least thats been the case with me. Ive had a lot more squibs with revolvers for some reason, than I have with autos.
Squibs with an auto generally dont cycle the gun, and give you an indicator that trouble lies ahead if you continue. Revolvers just let you keep going.
As I said earlier, if you maintain your stuff, and use good ammo, I find they are pretty much even as far as reliability goes.
When there is trouble, especially if its in a time of dire need, I hope then, the gun in my hand is an auto.
Dont get me wrong here either, Ive had plenty of issues with the autos over the years too. 98% of the time when they happened though, I was right back in action with a TRB.
ammo.crafter
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FTF, etc.
A great thought-provoking topic.
What issues have I had in competition with either revolver or auto.
The semi’s get the nod for issues and I have yet to experience a stoppage with my 1950 S&W model 14 38 Spcl.
A great thought-provoking topic.
What issues have I had in competition with either revolver or auto.
The semi’s get the nod for issues and I have yet to experience a stoppage with my 1950 S&W model 14 38 Spcl.
AK103 beat me to responding with most of the revolver issues I've had. I'd also add I've never had a base-pin jump out of a semiautomatic pistol and tie up the cylinder mid-string.
Put enough rounds through any pistol, semi-automatic or revolver, and something is going to give eventually. My experience is that when my revolvers go down, they are generally out of action until I can bring tools into play. In contrast, a fail-to-feed or fail-to-eject in a semi-auto is just a brief inconvenience. If I know I may be pushing a lot of ammo downrange without a chance to stop and clean the pistol, my choice will be my Colt 1911 over my S&W revolvers.
Also, I frequently like to ask people who espouse the "simplicity" of a revolver if they've ever popped the side plate on a DA. The usual answer is NO, they have no idea what is under the hood of their "simple" revolver.
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Here's a thing to think about, and yes, I've experienced about every malfunction there is, short of grenade in the face (though I almost did have that happen with a rifle...)
Loot at all the examples given of revolvers failing in some way...why? because people remember them. Why? because they are uncommon.
I had very, very few issues with revolvers (that weren't ammo caused) and remember every single one but I can only remember a few specific jams with semis. those that were spectacularly out of the ordinary.
One shouldn't but there are a few who seem to sound like when a revolver chokes for some reason, its "because its a revolver" and when a semi does its version, it's "just bad ammo" or "a bad magazine"...
Likewise, when a particular gun breaks, some act like "its because its a …" and not because it happens to be a bad or defective unit.
Most of us put a little more thought into it and realize that lemons of various flavors are found on revolving and reciprocating trees. We try not to pick them but sometimes we get them anyway.
Loot at all the examples given of revolvers failing in some way...why? because people remember them. Why? because they are uncommon.
I had very, very few issues with revolvers (that weren't ammo caused) and remember every single one but I can only remember a few specific jams with semis. those that were spectacularly out of the ordinary.
One shouldn't but there are a few who seem to sound like when a revolver chokes for some reason, its "because its a revolver" and when a semi does its version, it's "just bad ammo" or "a bad magazine"...
Likewise, when a particular gun breaks, some act like "its because its a …" and not because it happens to be a bad or defective unit.
Most of us put a little more thought into it and realize that lemons of various flavors are found on revolving and reciprocating trees. We try not to pick them but sometimes we get them anyway.
They are different beasts. The revolver is much slower to reload because you are the loading mechanism. However, if the ammo fits in the chambers and you can close the cylinder, a loading related problem is extremely unlikely.
A semiautomatic reloads itself after each shot. It's possible for ammo to fit into the magazine, but not into the chamber properly. A round that won't ignite will stop the semiautomatic, but with the revolver you just pull the trigger again.
I have had very few failures ever with my revolvers. Almost all of my semi-automatics have had one or more malfunctions, especially the 22's.
Other than the loading/ejecting thing, they seem about the same as far as parts breaking, springs wearing out, etc.
If you need a handgun for SD when you are not at home, you will almost certainly have just moments to react. No one is going to try to assault you from 25 yards away. If someone jumps me from close range, I will be fortunate to draw and get off a shot or two. Tap rack bang would not happen.
A semiautomatic reloads itself after each shot. It's possible for ammo to fit into the magazine, but not into the chamber properly. A round that won't ignite will stop the semiautomatic, but with the revolver you just pull the trigger again.
I have had very few failures ever with my revolvers. Almost all of my semi-automatics have had one or more malfunctions, especially the 22's.
Other than the loading/ejecting thing, they seem about the same as far as parts breaking, springs wearing out, etc.
If you need a handgun for SD when you are not at home, you will almost certainly have just moments to react. No one is going to try to assault you from 25 yards away. If someone jumps me from close range, I will be fortunate to draw and get off a shot or two. Tap rack bang would not happen.
"A revolver is slower to reload..."
Everybody has heard that, many people say it. But they're ignoring the "behind the scenes" work that MUST be done, in order to make that semi auto faster to reload.
Try this test. You have a loaded revolver and a loaded semi auto on a table, and a box of ammunition.
NO spare magazines, no moon clips.
Which one do you think you could fire empty and reload faster?
Seriously. If you're skilled and fairly dexterous, you might be a tiny bit faster reloading the semi's magazine and chambering a round than emptying and reloading a Single Action revolver. But you won't be faster than emptying and reloading a Double Action revolver.
The point here is that while a semi is "Faster" to reload, it is faster ONLY if you have PRELOADED spare magazines. And spare mags are separate parts, so the possibility always exists that they won't be where you need them when you need them. We do a lot to make sure that possibility is as slim as we can make it, it we cannot make it go away entirely.
"but everyone has spare mags!..Don't they??"
Most of us do...until we don't...IF that ever happens...
Everybody has heard that, many people say it. But they're ignoring the "behind the scenes" work that MUST be done, in order to make that semi auto faster to reload.
Try this test. You have a loaded revolver and a loaded semi auto on a table, and a box of ammunition.
NO spare magazines, no moon clips.
Which one do you think you could fire empty and reload faster?
Seriously. If you're skilled and fairly dexterous, you might be a tiny bit faster reloading the semi's magazine and chambering a round than emptying and reloading a Single Action revolver. But you won't be faster than emptying and reloading a Double Action revolver.
The point here is that while a semi is "Faster" to reload, it is faster ONLY if you have PRELOADED spare magazines. And spare mags are separate parts, so the possibility always exists that they won't be where you need them when you need them. We do a lot to make sure that possibility is as slim as we can make it, it we cannot make it go away entirely.
"but everyone has spare mags!..Don't they??"
Most of us do...until we don't...IF that ever happens...
It really isn't even a contest. It's much quicker to go through a 50 round box of ammo with a DA revolver than with a semi-auto with only one magazine. A 50 round box of .32 ACP ammo with my Colt 1903 lasts longer than a 50 round box of .38 Special in my Combat Masterpiece. And neither will keep up in ammo consumption with either my 1911 or PPQ as long as the supply of preloaded magazines holds out.
To the slower to reload dogma, I'd add the common "revolvers are more accurate" quip. If we're talking firing the revolver hand-held in single action, then yes, the majority of average shooters are more accurate with the revolver. BUT, if I Iopped the hammer spur off any of my S&Ws and gave them to those same average shooters, suddenly a Glock or any DA/SA pistol is going to look much more accurate. (I'm ignoring mechnical accuracy and SAO automatics in this comparison, as most don't find a 1911 trigger to be any impediment to good practical accuracy and the majority of us aren't shooting our pistols locked in machine rests.)
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The real advantage goes to the semi in defensive pistol competition, no doubt about it.
It's faster to reload a semi and they hold up to 17 rounds. This is very important in competition. In a self defense situation as a civilian, we're told it's more like 3 shots fired.
The fact(yeah) fact that I've had more malfunctions with semis than with revolvers tells me that the revolver is more reliable.
This being said, I do have 4 semis that I would carry because they haven't malfunctioned YET. The main reason I carry the 642 is that it's the best I've found so far for pocket carry. I do have an LC9 that fits in the pocket but due to the shape of the auto I can't draw from the pocket with my hand around the handle, In a holster the auto works fine.
A good friend of mine fired at a burglar breaking in the back door, missed him with the first shot, gun jammed, no second shot. The good news is the guy ran off in a hurry and did not notice the gun had jammed. The gun was not a revolver.
It's faster to reload a semi and they hold up to 17 rounds. This is very important in competition. In a self defense situation as a civilian, we're told it's more like 3 shots fired.
The fact(yeah) fact that I've had more malfunctions with semis than with revolvers tells me that the revolver is more reliable.
This being said, I do have 4 semis that I would carry because they haven't malfunctioned YET. The main reason I carry the 642 is that it's the best I've found so far for pocket carry. I do have an LC9 that fits in the pocket but due to the shape of the auto I can't draw from the pocket with my hand around the handle, In a holster the auto works fine.
A good friend of mine fired at a burglar breaking in the back door, missed him with the first shot, gun jammed, no second shot. The good news is the guy ran off in a hurry and did not notice the gun had jammed. The gun was not a revolver.
AgedWarrior
New member
Yes, it is easier and faster to load a DA revolver from a box of ammo than it is to load a semi from a box of ammo. But, who carries a semi with a box of ammo in case they need to reload? For that matter, I don’t know anyone who carries a revolver and a box of ammo to reload in case they need to. Extra mags or speed loaders are carried by those whom feel the need for ammo to facilitate a quick reload should it be necessary.
No, not everyone carries an extra mag or a speed loader for that matter, but that is their choice. I suppose you could carry a box of ammo to try and reload in a crisis, but I think most of us can see the foolishness of the idea. But, if this is a measure of which is more reliable, I think the semi wins because of the ease of reloading with a fresh mag versus reloading a da revolver with speed loader. I have practiced both.
That said, I have to say I have never had a revolver I owned fail for any reason, and I consider them quite reliable and simple. However, ease of operation and concealment is why I carry a semi for the last several years. My semi’s are also utterly reliable, and must be before I would consider it for daily carry. Whether it is a wheel gun or a semi, proper maintenance, cleaning and lube prevents most problems before they happen.
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I trust all of my revolvers with my life. I can't say I trust any of my 1911's with my life because I don't own any anymore. I have several other .45 ACP guns I trust pretty much as much as the revolvers. Pretty much, but not quite as much. It's been like 30 years since I had any other problems with a revolver but a couple of badly damaged cases that prevented loading into the cylinder. I've had other issues with my semiautos, so I don't have quite as much confidence in them, but my "house gun" is a SAR CM9 Gen 2 with a laser on it. The gun and the laser were less than $300 combined, shipped, and transferred. Amazingly easy to shoot and hit what that red dot is on.
I agree. A well and proper made 1911 is a great gun.
The problem with the 1911's is finding quality, built to proper spec, at a reasonable price.
The reason you hear so many complaints about them, is very much the same as anything else that becomes popular and in demand, and so many makers try to cash in on that, especially when they come at inexpensive prices. They often have troubles and dont work properly or hold up well. That same thing goes for the revolvers too.
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