Convince Me

[hags]

AR in a hurry

hey joeranger, I see you live in Illinois with the rest of us unfortunates. you better hurry up and convince your wife 'cause if the Daley/Blago administration gets their way they'll soon be on the banned list. banned as in illegal to own.

 

[Holman]

It is all about the wants, my wife does not say anything now when I buy a new gun. Go for it!

 

[joeranger]

I was being light hearted about my post but there is a real concern about "buy it now before they change the law".
I am going to get one because I have always loved the M16. My uncle Sam let me borrow one of his while I was with the rangers. He had to pry it out of my fingers.
My justification for getting one is that I need a long range rifle for an upcoming praire dog shoot. I have pretty much decided on the BM 24" varmint/fluted. It has a free float barrel, so I should be able to reach out a long way. I love the idea that I can mix and match uppers and lowers, stocks and grips, add rails, scopes, lasers and lights.

BTW, my wifes initial reaction was "Another Gun?, Don't you have enough guns?" My response was simply, "Don't you have enough jewelry"

Don't mean to hijack the thread. If you have the means to buy an AR, what are you waiting for?

 

[TPAW]

hags

I might add that the 9mm cartridge shot from a carbine within that range is more desirable than the .223/5.56.

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[hags]

9mm

A hollow point 9mm shot from a 16" barrel is much more of an anti-personnel round than the usual 55gr .223 shot from a pea shooter. It will do much more damage with much more stopping power.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"A hollow point 9mm shot from a 16" barrel is much more of an anti-personnel round than the usual 55gr .223 shot from a pea shooter. It will do much more damage with much more stopping power."

What's the basis for those claims?

 

[hags]

shooting vs posting

well, size, expansion versus fragmentation, size, energy, size, wound channel, a 9mm round tends to stay stable after striking a target, some info taken from Comparison of the Wound Ballistic Potential of 9mm vs. 5.56mm Cartridges for Law Enforcement Entry Applications.
see WhiteFeather93's post, pretty much accepted fact.

 

[Lycanthrope]

A hollow point 9mm shot from a 16" barrel is much more of an anti-personnel round than the usual 55gr .223 shot from a pea shooter. It will do much more damage with much more stopping power.

This man has never drilled a groundhog with an AR within 50 yards.

one word: Fragmentation.

No.....two words: EXPLOSIVE fragmentation.

 

[hags]

groundhogs

I'd only drill a ground hog if it broke into my house and threatened me and/or mine.
Squirrels on the other hand............

 

[Earnhardtjr3829]

Ak

I'm going with a few others on this one. For the SHTF situation. Grab an AK with a couple of mags for $400 and a get 1000 rounds for about $100. Problem solved.

 

[Jguy101]

Yeah, AK. Cheaper than an AR, even for a VEPR, and ammo and mags are cheap.

 

[Mike Irwin]

You mentioned size three times, which seems to indicate a prejudice based on nothing more than appearance, and that's never a logical basis from which to make any decision.

As for the size of the wound channel, everything I'm seeing regarding gelatin testing shows that the permanent wound channel for the .223 is similar to or larger than a 9mm. It's tough to compare directly, though, as it's tough to find ballistic testing for 9mms through carbine-length barrels.

"Comparison of the Wound Ballistic Potential of 9mm vs. 5.56mm Cartridges for Law Enforcement Entry Applications."

Have a link for that study?

It would be interested to see it given that more and more police forces are dropping 9mms and going to .223/5.56 for entry teams.

 

[seeker_two]

Let me jump into the fray with this...

Why should I spend all the $$$$ on an AR when you can get a Ruger Mini-14 or Kel-Tec SU-16 for much less $$ ?...

 

[Lycanthrope]

I think the AR is a better deal since the prices start at around $550 and the ergonomics tend to suit a lot of people. Add in the fact that there is a HUGE availability of parts and aftermarket upgrades that the Ruger and Kel-Tec just don't have and it can be a better investment for dome people.

 

[hags]

police departments

9mm from carbine length barrels overpenetrate, that's why the move to .223/5.56. don't want to wound friendly civilians!!!
there is no link, it's a paperback published study.
size does count just ask your.......................... just kidding.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I'd rather not harm innocents either........but a lot depends on bullet design in both offerrings.

You can't always equate penetration with stopping power. If you can reach the vitals, it's all you need. Major organ tissue disruption is all that matters. Exterior bleeding is only necessary for tracking............

 

[kwkoch]

my best friend, that went into the USMC with me is now a Louisville metro officer has a highpoint 9mm carbine and he wont even use it as a club much less to shoot to save his life. he carries a .40 on his side and an M4 in the trunk of his patrol car.

No gun collection is complete without an AR.

 

[hags]

Hi Point

kwkoch, that's your friends loss. yes, I agree with Lycanthrope, alot depends on bullet design.
I'm not really equating penetration with stopping power. In fact, overpenetration can be a bad thing. However, the size of the wound channnel(s) is what counts.
Yes, I'm hung up on size.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Have you seen the wound channel of a varmint bullet in .223? Softball sized........even ball is fragmenting at 50 yards in a carbine.

 

[TrooperSon]

It's American

I love my AR-15. There is just something great and American about owning one. It is a fantastic machine, and it never ceases to impress me when I admire its design. Plus it is a pleasure to shoot at the range from time to time.