Converting Mausers to hunting rifles

[dfaugh]

To swingset (and Tamara)

Like Tamara, I also have several milsurp rifles that I won't ever alter, as they are in VG to excellent condition, and/or are somewhat rare. I wouldn't chop up something that was of any value. HOWEVER, realize that there are MILLIONS of some of these old rifles out there, such that they'll never be worth any significant amount of money (or else how would I be able to buy the Turk for $60). And many/most are not in particularly good condition (the stock on the Turk was one step away from firewood...In fact, if it gets really cold next winter, it'll probably BE firewood.) In short one man's "piece of history" is another's opportunity to make a useful rifle for cheap. I know this insults some of the crufflers, however the a level of reasonabilty I wish people would appreciate.

 

[ZeusOne]

In addition to which, this forum does not prohibit the posting of "sporterizing" topics, so those who do make such posts should not be made to feel guilty about it. Purists should go to forums such as milsurpshooter.net which do not allow such heresy. I frequent it myself, and enjoy it within it's rules and contexts.

This cruffler owns more than several that will be protected from bubba. On the flip side, I have several beater rifles that history won't miss if they get dropped into a synthetic stock! Regardless, in all cases, they are mine to do with as I please.

Tamara, that's a beautiful conversion!

 

[Gewehr98]

ZeusOne, touche'.

Nor does this forum prohibit crufflers like myself who wish to remind folks that historical firearms are getting fewer and further in between, thanks to Bubba and his customizing skills.

This was a chopped and bobbed deer rifle when I found it. I spent 2 years restoring it to issue condition because it had that silly Z prefix on the serial number, indicative of the 1903A4 sniper variant Springfield. I'd love to have somebody lampoon me for going through all that effort.

 

[joab]

Gewehr98
I also have an 03A3 that Bubba butchered. From the looks of the metal it was in near perfect cond. The only reason that I did not bother restoring it was because the barrel had been cut benind the sights. Everytime I look at it I get a little irritated.
But after looking at some of the creations here I also want to reincarnate an old Turk into a useful modern rifle.
Weren't most of the Turks just a mish mash of rifle parts anyway

Y'all should see what I'm gonna do to my Yugo SKS

 

[Destro]

Great thread!

Years ago, this why sporterization worked: People would remove the front top handguard-useful only in protecting the barrel from damage in bayonet fighting. This was done by unscrewing the wood with a screw driver.
They would then unscrew the butt plate-again, only useful for combat-and
replace it, either with an aftermarket rubber or plastic butt plate.
The gun was lightened, but could still use the stripper clips, bolt,
sights, and sling, that the gun originally came with.
It's only when people try to make surplus guns into artworks, that tear them up.
Save the anguish: sporterize the old-fashioned way.

 

[cookhj]

tamara, why did you have to show the pic of that turk again! now you're making me want to sporterize a junky ole' mauser!

 

[BD1]

Swingset, I'm sure you'd be offended by my truck gun. It's a model '96 6.5x55 cut to 22", recrowned by hand, pillar bedded into a $49.95 Ramline plastic stock, with a Leupold scout scope on a bit of weaver rail screwed to the rear sight base which I milled flat on a drill press. I call it the "Ugly Gun". Total investment under $200, (plus the glass). Shoots in the .3s at 100 yards. Shoots 120 grain Nosler ballistc tips, 140 grain speer hot points and 160 grain Hornadys into one 2" group at 100 yards with no sight adjustment. The 160s are dead on at 100, the 140s are 1/2" high at 150 and the 120s are sighted in at 200. I have confidence in it. I shot a nice 200 lb. buck with it last year, offhand at 150 yards. This gun puts meat on the table and I don't think it would be anyone's first choice to steal. If someone did steal it they wouldn't find ammo at Wally Mart. It loves any slow powder and I have enough surplus WC852 to shoot deer with it forever.

I own a couple of other old swedes, some are all original, and they will stay that way, but until you've lived my life don't presume to tell me the best use for anything I own. BD

 

[Gewehr98]

Joab, I know how you feel.

That 1903A4 had a barrel that was cut down to 18". So it now has a new original Remington barrel, straight out of the oiled paper wrap, with a barrel date matching the receiver's.

Wood handguards on infantry rifles are intended to protect the barrel against bayonets? Wow, here I thought all along that it would prevent the soldier's hands from getting burned after continuous firing. Silly me!

I've got a safe drawer full of old '98 Mauser actions I've collected from folks for 20+ years. Some have markings that make me really wish I had the rest of the complete rifle. There's one that really brings a tear to my eye, because the rifle it belonged to should have had the roller-coaster rear sight. Now they've all lost their C&R status, and are relegated to being simple rifle receivers, just like that 1916 C.G. Haenel action sitting in that Interdiction Rifle above.

But since they're not terribly economical or easy to restore back to issue condition, I'm doing the best I can do with such wonderful actions - making functional works of art that would cause folks like Sedgely, Newton, and Ackley to smile. I'm spending a lot of effort and money on my next project in particular. When I finish it, I'll put pics up here on TFL. It's a Siamese Mauser action, built up into a .45-70 repeater with Express Rifle styling.

 

[Helnik]

I love the 6.5x55

I have a 1905 Karl Gustov (all matching #'s except floor plate)mounted a Bushnell Scout Scope( with adapter,no changes to gun!)Now I can see almost as far as that lovely gun can shoot!every thing is the same as it was in 1905.

I like the round so well I am having a custom Rifle built in that caliber,it should be finished in June, the Riflesmith is David Tooley,of Tooley Custom Rifles ,Gastonia,NC.This is what he is building for me.

Action-- Nesika Bay model J single shot right bolt right port.
Barrel-- Hart 1-8 twist 6.5x55,26" remington Varmint contour.
Stock-- McMillian remington Varmint pattern,color black/grey.
Trigger-- Shilen.
Weight -- approx 9.5 lbs W/O scope.
Black teflon finish.
Cryogenic treatment.
Talley or Dakota sling swivel bases.
Scope-- Leupold 8.5-25x50 Tactical long range(MK IV)w/ mil/dot.

I ordered it the end of feb,I wish it was here.

Nick

 

[Tamara]

Wood handguards on infantry rifles are intended to protect the barrel against bayonets? Wow, here I thought all along that it would prevent the soldier's hands from getting burned after continuous firing. Silly me!

People would remove the front top handguard-useful only in protecting the barrel from damage in bayonet fighting.

Here I'd heard that they were to keep the soldier's hand from being burned... ...while bayonet fighting.

 

[Kaylee]

Personally, I think done well, the Mauser action can be turned into an incredible sporting rifle -- funtional and exquisitely elegant. They just can't make 'em like that anymore... all that handwork in the action and slick-yet-tight feel working the bolt is just too spendy to get in a commercial rifle anymore. Where else can Joe or Jane average get that quality of an action for so little cash outlay?

Emphasis on done well though -- I'll agree that taking an early WWII German 98K, whackin' off the bolt handle for a bolt-on jobbie, poorly mounting some scope bases, hacksawing the barrel and dropping the whole thing in a plastic stock before hosing down with Krylon is just.. well.. obscene.

On the other hand, taking a beat up ol' warhorse of little historical significance and turning it into a functional work of art is -- to me -- a great improvement. In fact, some of the sporterized jobs from the 50's are even more emotionally touching than issue rifles I feel.. they speak to me of old soldiers tired of war, looking to put their weapons to more peaceful ends in a happier time.

Anyhow.. all that rambling.. I've an ol' Yugo that's gonna get a workover into a nice sporter eventually, as I get all the pieces together. I only hope my woodworking is up to the challenge. I'm still torn between American old school and European old school... the whole idea of putting the action in a nicely shaped mannlicher stock with a butterknife handle and a shorty barrel is rather appealing. Sort of a resurrected Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

-K

 

[swingset]

On the other hand, taking a beat up ol' warhorse of little historical significance and turning it into a functional work of art is -- to me -- a great improvement. In fact, some of the sporterized jobs from the 50's are even more emotionally touching than issue rifles I feel.. they speak to me of old soldiers tired of war, looking to put their weapons to more peaceful ends in a happier time.

In principle, I agree with you. Arfully done, a sporter job isn't in and of itself such a bad thing. Problem? What you consider a gun of little historical signifigance will someday (maybe not that far from now) be a very rare and sought after gun. Yes, even Mosins and M48's. Your father and his father saw 03A4's by the barrel load sold in Hardware stores, Artillery Lugers for a song, and battle issued G43's and their ilk sold by the pound. Now, all that my generation can do is shake our heads that so many wonderful, living examples of our military history were lost, abused or cut up....because at that time those guns were nothing but surplus junk, brought in by the tens of thousands. Same with cars, ya know. How many 1920's Chevy's got cut down and turned into a hotrod? Neat ride for a young man in the 1940's and 1950's, but now those cars in original form are worth a small fortune.

We fail to see beyond our own wants, beyond our noses sometimes. What will your grandchildren say when they see a sporter rifle that in their time will be worth $300 or so, but unmolested might have brought $4000.00? I have such a gun, so I know how possible that really is.

I think everyone has the right to do what they want with their property, but on a personal level, disregarding the military history some arms represent is a selfish, short-sighted view. When you can buy a good, used $200 Savage to use or to modify, it pains me to see someone take a gun hand-fitted 70 years ago and cut it up to make a lowly truck gun out of it. Not trying to flame anyone, but to me cutting up a piece of history, even one you don't find appealing, is a disservice to those who will live after you.

 

[six 4 sure]

This may be a stupid question, but could you convert, say, a cheap Turk Mauser to .17 Remington? Anyone you would recommend for this?

Thanks.

 

[forever]

Your grandchildren, or theirs, will surely sing your praises for taking a piece of history and turning it into, well, whatever is left in 100 years. Enjoy! Nothing does a cruffler prouder than to watch people crap on military history.
--swingset

I agree altogether. Also, what's wrong with hunting with a Mauser in original condition? Do you need a rubber butt pad, or a scope or whatever else you people do to these guns in order to shoot a deer at 120 yds?

 

[rbernie]

There are any number of reasonable and rational responses that I'd like to give to Forever and Swingset; responses that show my interest and sensitivity and actual efforts in preserving militaria and history in general and only sporterizing rifles that had already been metal-hacked beyond hope of reasonable restoration. But I won't, simply because the presumptiveness of the comments made really tee me off. So I'll ask this instead:

I think everyone has the right to do what they want with their property, but on a personal level, disregarding the military history some arms represent is a selfish, short-sighted view.

What if the buyer has no actual interest in military history whatsoever - why do they have an obligation to preserve something that they do not inherently value (and therefore cannot see the benefit of preserving them for future generations)?

 

[LAK]

Tamara,

Sheesh, that Turk' is a real gem.

And in defense of such works, one only need look at the present market in fine sporting conversions old and new; I do not see any of them going down in price. Neither are they held in any less esteem by those who use or otherwise appreciate them.

There is merit in preserving the better examples of the old and former warhorses - but not every single last one of each particular type.

 

[dfaugh]

In my own defense

Ok, so I sporterized a couple of guns that were produced in the GAZILLIONS, and were in extremely poor shape. As I said I also have some decent examples that will remain that way. And I even bought an SMLE that Bubba had gotten into, and am currently restoring to as-issued (Luckily all numbers match, and no modifications were made to any major metal parts, just the stock.) So my current score is 1 for 3

 

[OutAtTheEdge]

20 Years Ago...

...I built one on an Oberndorf action salvaged from a severely butchered K98. 25" McGowen barrel in .25-06 Rem., bead blasted and blued, fitted with a Canjar trigger, then glassed into a Lee Six black Kevlar thumbhole stock. That was back before synthetic sporting rifle stocks had hit the market, so that Mauser gat gawked at quite a bit at the range, where it showed a definite fondness for a near-max charge of H4831 behind the 120 gr. Nosler Partition bullet. I've killed 8-10 whitetails and mulies with that rifle over the years, and friends and family members have probably shot that many as well. (That's the only gun I own that I'll loan out on request; it's as rugged a rifle as I could ask for, with a no-nonsense finish that doesn't care a bit about hard use.)

I've always thought it would be fun to do it again, this time with a lightweight 22" barrel in .35 Whelen, and another black sythetic stock, this one in classic configuration, and topped with a fixed 2x Leupold M8. Then, of course, I'd have to arrange a moose hunt.

One of these days. Until then, I'm...

OutAtTheEdge

 

[FirstFreedom]

Tam, that Turk is awesome - tell us, what purpose did you (do you) have in mind for that rifle, if any?

I sporterized a swede mauser couple years back, but then after reading online about the sacrilege thereto, I felt guilty and decided to not do that anymore. Plus, it was a lot more time, expense, and hassle than I had anticipated. Now I'm definitely in the "leave 'em alone" crowd. Of course, being low on funds at the time, coupled with a desire to have a good hunter, was the catalyst for doing it. On an ABB gun*, it makes sense, however.

*ABB="Already Been Bubba'ed"

 

[Tamara]

swingset,

We fail to see beyond our own wants, beyond our noses sometimes. What will your grandchildren say when they see a sporter rifle that in their time will be worth $300 or so, but unmolested might have brought $4000.00? I have such a gun, so I know how possible that really is.

We do, however, have an advantage that those folks of yesteryear didn't have: Old bolt action military rifles are collectables now. In the '50s and '60s, they were just old military guns; a "collectable military antique" in those days was a Sharps or Brown Bess. Very little research had been applied to determine which rifles were especially rare or historically significant. Now we have the benefit of hindsight; history will not miss the average Turk or M48, and there are ample collector's guides to show people which ones history will miss. Also, your potentially $4k rifle wouldn't be so potentially valuable if so many bubbas hadn't turned its siblings into $300 sporters. Have you considered a restoration attempt?

Here's a poser for you: I own a C.G. Haenel Kar.71, a rare bird by anybody's standards. I got it off a guy whose granddad had brought it back from Germany in 1919, after WWI. This very rare little carbine is in a sporter stock. A sporter stock, however, that it was put in before WWI. If I were to try and put it in a repro Kar.71 stock, would I be destroying an authentic piece of history, or restoring a military rifle?

forever,

I agree altogether. Also, what's wrong with hunting with a Mauser in original condition?

Well, maybe the fact that it doesn't headspace (who here really wants to spend the money to have the barrel set back and the chamber re-cut on a $40 rifle?) Or maybe the fact that the bore was trashed. Or maybe the fact that the Turks had done an atrocious job on their last arsenal refinish. Or maybe the fact that there are literally a million of these things on the collector's market, 999,999 of which are in better shape. As I said earlier in the thread, some folks need to learn to distinguish between "heirlooms" and "heirlumps".